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Do you know anyone who spanks? - Page 8

post #141 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama

Spanking is not AP. Not not not. There is no way around that. I don't care if we exclude spankers as self-identifying as AP, in fact I think that is a good thing.

Spanking is not okay, and it is most certainly not attachment-promoting.
Thank you for having the ovaries to say that! I agree completely.
post #142 of 154
I completely agree with thismama as usual.
post #143 of 154
I've witnessed my brother's GF smack their daughter (2 yrs old) over the last two years since she was born. It pisses me off to no end and they KNOW how I feel about disciplining a child. It's not my brother, however, it's his GF that does the discipline in front of people and she isn't embarrassed to smack their little girl for just touching something that isn't her's. She's smacked her in the past when she grabbed a toy from one of my kids and I would be like "they're all kids, just let them play!!!" I can't stand it!! At 6 mos old my brother's GF was trying to teach her not to take toys from the older kids by smacking her hand and putting her in time out, 6 mos old!!!! They've watched me raise two kids in front of them for the past 11 years and know how I feel about it too and still don't seem to care. :
post #144 of 154
if someone is trying to parent in an attatched manner then they would want to avoid spanking. however evryone comes from a different starting point ykwim?

if someone was raised by an ap parent, then i don't think spanking would occur to them as a means of discipline. but some of us are trying to overcome how we were raised and what the social norms are in our part of the world. not just that but some of us found ap when our kids were a little older. my oldest is 6 and i didn't have mdc til maybe this time last year. i nevr used spanking as my first line of discipline but i would have had no support for not spanking at all. now i'm in my own homw w/ just me dh and the kids so that makes it a little easier. but dd and i are still caught in the "cycle of violence". less and less though.

i'm one of the trying ones. i'm trying not to spank. i'm trying not to yell either. i think that can be just as bad. and having been on the gd forum a lot lately i'm starting to question time outs/sending her to her room. etc. i would nevr claim that spanking promotes attatchment though.

i am sort of lost at the moment as to how to get dd to mind. (and sometimes weather i need her to mind at all anyway) i don't want to dominate her. i don't want her to fear me but sometimes i want her to just go to bed or brush her teeth or whatever without all the drama and hassle ykwim?

so i'm still journeying.
post #145 of 154
I do think there is a difference between a parent who is trying to find alternate ways of discplining and a parent who think spanking is a-ok.
post #146 of 154
Practically everyone I know spanks to some degree.

Some think it's essential to a kid's spiritual and moral upbringing, and would never consider removing corporal punishment from their repertoire, no matter how many "secular studies" come out against the practice, no matter whether it becomes illegal, no matter what. These people frighten me a little.

Others take a more, "this is what's right for my family" approach, acknowleging that there are alternate methods of parenting.

Some reserve spanking for "emergency" situations; others use it as practically their only discipline method.

Some start in babyhood (!!!) while others start at the "age of reason," whenever that is. Some continue till their kids are older teens. Others stop sometime around puberty.

None of it is what I'd call attachment parenting. I miss the mark pretty regularly on the parenting gig, notably today, but I don't mind calling spanking "hitting a kid."
post #147 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by tempestjewel
One thing I really hate is the word "spank". I hate how words exist that make something sound better then it really is, kwim? To me spanking = hitting and it should be called that.
Thank you for this! I totally agree, and will from now on refer to it as hitting, and nothing less. You have inspired me.

Unfortunately, the question for me is whether I know anyone else besides DH and I who do NOT hit our children. All of his family members do, and my MIL even told me once that she believes every child needs a good "spanking" now and then. As if it were a vitamin supplement or something! I have a SIL who truly believes her kids need a good kick in the butt sometimes, and honestly believes that without those regular kicks they would behave worse than they do. I think deep down she doesn't like hitting and kicking her kids, but truly sees no other way around it, as it gets the results she believes she needs. But maybe I give her too much credit, she also shames her kids regularly in public and believes anyone who would even CONSIDER homebirth needs a good kick in the butt, too. : There are two friends of mine who live near me who I know for certain don't hit their kids, and my best friend who lives far away from me. Both of my friends that live near me are considered odd and freaky among their other family and friends. That's everyone I know for certain. I might be able to convince a couple of my sisters and my brother that hitting isn't necessary when they decide to have kids, but who knows about their spouses/future spouses. I will definitely try, though.
post #148 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by natensarah
I think it's a pretty broad generalization to say that parents who spank have no attachment to their child. Or that their children don't trust them. I mean, it's just not that simple. I'm not arguing for spanking here, it does erode attachment, it does damage trust, but most often not to the complete destruction of the relationship.

And frankly, as an attached parent, there have been many, many situations where I have wanted to spank. I've never needed to (obviously), in all but one situation I've been able to resist, but I've still wanted to. I'm glad for you that you've never been so frustrated that you feel like lashing out, but many, many people have. Maybe that's what pigpokey's after, a little more acceptance of our humanity as parents.
I think the point has been missed here. From what I can tell, pigpokey has been arguing that parents who hit their children but who otherwise claim to follow AP practices should certainly be considered AP by the rest of the community. No one is saying that a parent trying their hardest but who has slipped up before is not AP, or that a parent who used to use hitting as a discipline tool but who is struggling to learn not to, is not AP. It is the advocacy that spanking is "ok" and will not interfere with attachment that is being argued. I most certainly have gotten to the point where I feel like it would be easy just to spank my son to get him to stop whatever tantrum, etc. But thankfully I always realize that it is my own temper speaking - and how can my ds learn to control his temper if I can't control mine? Not only do I not physically assault my child in those situations but I also manage to empathize with him. THAT is attachment forming. Creating fear by hitting just is not anywhere on the AP spectrum, I'm a little baffled at the debate to be honest.
post #149 of 154
I only read the first page, but I'm right there with everyone else. EVERYONE in my family spanks (xcept my sibs, but they don't have kids yet, and I think when they do 4 out of the 5 of them will not spank!!! ).

My grandmother tells me about how my ds spirit needs breaking and a few good smacks to the a$$ would do it, my other one told me about how she used to spank her kids so hard it hurt her and they'd just laugh - but then tells me that sometimes there's just nothing else you can do. My MIL says that sometimes kids need to be spanked even if they aren't doing anything really bad because it sends a jolt up their spine and resets their brain or some such nonsense :

I have two IRL friends. One is pretty gentle most of the time, but her dh spanks and believes that it is necessary. The other I thought was pretty gentle, but she apparently puts soap in her dc's mouth and I don't know, but I have a sneaking suspicion that she has spanked before. I do know that she does little swats to their hands sometimes.

My best friend for YEARS and I drifted apart because when I told her and her dh that I had no intention of spanking my ds (he was 3 months at the time) and they laughed in my face and told me I was going to regret it and it wouldn't be long before I was bringing him over to get him 'straightened out'.

All my coworkers used to joke about 'fingerpainting that a$$' which I suppose is nicer than refering to it as "beating that a$$" which I hear alot more people say now. They laugh and joke about it and think it's funny.

I find alot of hostility from people who do spank that hear that I don't. On a scale of 1 to 10 in regards to behavior (10 being perfect) their kid can be a 3 and that's how they justify spanking. But for them to believe that not spanking is a legitimate way to raise a child they expect that my children will be about a 9 - very polite at all times, always listening, sitting knitting instead of running around the playground screaming with other kids. Otherwise they say "well, look, that isn't working for you. Your ds is socially innept" (heard that when we were discussing spanking while my ds decided that he wasn't going to play with a child who was calling him offensive names).
post #150 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellyaellen
if someone is trying to parent in an attatched manner then they would want to avoid spanking. however evryone comes from a different starting point ykwim?
Yes, ITA. But this does not mean spanking falls within the definition of AP. Parents who spank may be striving toward AP, or may include many other AP practices in their parenting. But the spanking itself is not AP, and I think including it is misleading and waters down the definition of AP so much as to render it useless.

As an aside, many of us who choose not to spank our children come from spanking or abusive backgrounds. And ITA that making differing choices from how we were raised can be very challenging. I know for me I often feel at a loss in parenting, because I have no models for how to parent that are respectful and non-abusive.
post #151 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellona
I find alot of hostility from people who do spank that hear that I don't.
I've noticed this as well, even from family. I honestly believe it's because, deep down, they know it is wrong, even if they won't admit it. Therefore, in order to protect themselve from feeling guilty, they immediately put up a hostile front.
post #152 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plummeting
I've noticed this as well, even from family. I honestly believe it's because, deep down, they know it is wrong, even if they won't admit it. Therefore, in order to protect themselve from feeling guilty, they immediately put up a hostile front.
post #153 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plummeting
I've noticed this as well, even from family. I honestly believe it's because, deep down, they know it is wrong, even if they won't admit it. Therefore, in order to protect themselve from feeling guilty, they immediately put up a hostile front.
ITA.

I don't think anyone thinks assaulting their child is an okay thing to do. I think ppl do it because of desperation, because they don't know a better way, because they haven't dealt with the pain of abuse from their own childhoods, etc. Hence the defensiveness.
post #154 of 154
API was very nice and chose not to take a more detailed position. (This was simply a discussion about what position persons leading the AP movement should take regarding the label Attachment Parent, and API was just one example of leadership.)

Here is what I wrote (to which they were responding):
Quote:

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am writing to request a clarification of API's position on one issue. (Not trying to be too formal; I tend to write this way for clarity. There's a discussion going on between friends and we could benefit from a clarification of API's position.)

Your FAQ says in part:
Do I have to practice all of the attachment parenting ideals to be an attachment parent?

No. We recognize that families have various circumstances in their lives that may preclude them from practicing all the attachment parenting "ideals". We also want parents to know that AP is not a "one size fits all" formula for parenting. What we want parents to understand is the core emotional and psychological needs babies have, even before birth. Parents who recognize these needs will make decisions based on what their child needs, not on what the parenting books or other experts say you must do. Attachment parenting comes from the heart. As a sensitive parent you will be sensitive to what your child needs regardless of your life circumstances.



Please clarify as follows.

True or false: From API's viewpoint, a parent may "be an attachment parent" even if she does not ASPIRE to any one or two of the parenting ideals.

True or false: From API's viewpoint, a parent may "be an attachment parent" if she chooses to use positive discipline, but also chooses to use noncorporeal punishment.

True or false: From API's viewpoint, a parent may "be an attachment parent" if she chooses to use positive discipline sometimes, but also chooses to use punishment sometimes, whether spanking or nonviolent.

The two positions in our discussion can be summarized as follows:

AP community leadership should not promote "deal breakers" (such as spanking) defining an Attachment Parent; such are dogmatic and unhelpful in expanding the various good practices of ideals of the AP movement.
versus
AP community leadership should discourage parents who choose to spank from referring to themselves as Attachment Parents, because for example, these parents set a bad example for others. This is true whether or not such parents co-sleep, nurse, practice many aspects of positive discipline, avoid separations, are in high touch relationships, etc.
I have pointed to your FAQ to show that API would support of the first of the two positions.
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