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Do you know anyone who spanks? - Page 5

post #81 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by _betsy_
I doubt I could go to a grocery store or Target or wherever without hearing someone threaten to hit their child, or see them do it. And I live in one of the wealthiest, most highly-educated counties in the country.
Well, things like "poor people are more likely to spank" are generalizations. It just means that on average, poorer and less educated people are more likely to use harsh discipline techniques. It doesn't mean every poor person hits their kids, and it doesn't mean college educated people never hit their kids. Everyone uses generalizations, it's a way to catergorize the world and makes explaining things, expecting things, and discussing things easier.

My dad has a college degree, owns a business, and we were well-off growing up, but we still got the occaisonal spanking from our parents. And so did our poorer neighbors (except they got spanked quite a bit more often for almost everything).

~Nay
post #82 of 154
Yes, but not everyone agrees with those generalizations.
post #83 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by natensarah
Wow! Do you think you could talk to her? Maybe tell her you heard her and you were worried, and you'd watch her dd or something for her? Maybe if she knew you were listening, it would encourage her to think of other ways to parent.
I have planned to do this but I just can't, I have no idea what I would say or how to say it. None of the things I have thought about saying are possible for me to say to her. The words dry up on my tongue. I am spineless. I guess since her outbursts seem to happen so infrequently these days it has really flown off my radar. I don't know what is the right thing to do anymore.

WitchyMama, are you in SD? Maybe you do live in my neighborhood! Or, sadly, this kind of thing is common.
post #84 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nora'sMama
I have planned to do this but I just can't, I have no idea what I would say or how to say it. None of the things I have thought about saying are possible for me to say to her. The words dry up on my tongue. I am spineless. I guess since her outbursts seem to happen so infrequently these days it has really flown off my radar. I don't know what is the right thing to do anymore.
You're not spineless! It's really hard to do something like that.
post #85 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylix
I'm a little offended by this to be honest. I think this perception (that only progressive, wealthy people don't spank) perpetuates physical punishment. Whereas some people may not have the same resources or support systems to find others way other than to spank, I think it is a large sweeping generalization to say "progressive" people don't spank and "ignorant" people do. I am very against spanking but I think that people support it for a variety of reasons. And people that are very "progressive" in other ways wholeheartedly agree with spanking. And those that are "ignorant" may understand the inherent flaws in it.

I hear all the time that not spanking is "white people's discipline" or "rich people's discipline". If we keep saying those things, it creates a false cultural divide, IMO.

Kylix
Like I said, it is a generalization and seems to be the predominant perception where I live. I have also seen studies that reflect this divide (and other, cultural tendenies). It just means that, on AVERAGE, some groups tend to hit children more than others. Not that all poor people hit or no wealthy people do. Or that all members of any one cultural group do or don't.

There are, of course, many exceptions. And I do realize that people have differential access to education and resources (may be a cause of some of these differences?). I don't mean to categorize anyone here and I certainly am not trying to offend. I just wanted to share the overwhelming perception (or MY perception of the perception) in my community.
post #86 of 154
When posting please keep our Forum Guielines in mind

Quote:
Welcome to Gentle Discipline. This forum has a specific aim: to help parents learn and apply gentle discipline methods in raising their children.

Quote:
Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing. Effective discipline presumes that children have reasons for their behavior and that cooperation can be engaged to solve shared problems.

Hitting is never the best way to teach a child. Even in the case of real danger - as when a child runs out into the road - you can grab him, sit him down, look him in the eyes, and tell him why he must never do that again. The panic in your voice will communicate your message much more effectively than any spanking. You can be dramatic without being abusive.

'Natural Family Living' by Peggy O'Mara

Please appreciate that this forum is not a place to uphold or advocate physical punishment of children. Personal preferences for and encouragement of use of physical punishment are inappropriately posted here. Posts of that nature will be edited by the member upon request or will be removed.

Please feel free to discuss your problems and needs with the intent to learn more about Gentle Discipline.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=113264

Thanks
post #87 of 154
I have a daycare, and I deal with about 20 families per year. I only have one family that I know spanks. They also yell, and belittle their kids.

Guess who are my most challenging kids????????

Edited for miswording.
post #88 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanley
But Gentle Discipline is a deal breaker with AP in my opinion. You simply cannot AP if you can defend spanking as a choice in your parenting tool box. There is NOTHING attachment forming in hitting another person.

To me AP is recognizing that breastfeeding, co-sleeping, babywearing and gentle discipline are the way it should be.
In my opinion, seeing AP or other helpful parenting movements as having elements that are "deal breakers" is potentially dogmatic (and here, I think actually dogmatic) and not helpful. I think if someone seeking to learn from the AP movement is exposed to this type of thinking, she may very well decide not to read things labeled "AP" any more or associate with people who call themselves AP. In fact I would hazard to guess that this would be a majority reaction.

There are many things that are not attachment forming and many things that are. We bring gifts and weaknesses, resources and strengths, to our parent/child relationships. What is the good of dogma?

I certainly think AP is not a religion, and until I guess some hours after ruminating on this post, I would have used the phrase as a useful phrase to describe my own parenting style. Now, I don't want to be associated with the label AP. Maybe I will change my mind later, but actually as I age, I become more confident living without labels at all, so probably not.

It is certainly wonderful when we can guide our children with words and affection and upright example.
post #89 of 154
Noras mom....we dealt with a similar situation with a horribly abusive man and his pitiful girlfriend. we were living side by side in townhouses, and omg...i did call 911 one night bc he was trying to kill her. throwing her down the stairs...etc

here is what i said...in a normal way, (and they were NOT sociable!) i said " Hi! I was wondering if we've been keeping you up lately? My dc has had -----whatever, teething, nightmares, make something up!--------and i hope we havent disturbed you! you know, we share that bedroom wall, and you can hear EVERYthing through those walls! Just wanted to make sure we werent bothering you??"

This would be done in a totally nonchalant way, and let her know that you CAN hear, without putting her on the spot.
post #90 of 154
Peacelovingmama,

I'm well aware of those studies. The masters thesis I'm currently working on actually sites them as references.

To me, it's one thing to look at the data and site statistics about prevalence. It's another thing to say "progressive" people do this and "ignorant" people do that. I know what you meant and I don't mean to nitpick or pick on you but I think these statements and the false use of those very prevalence studies perpetuate the use of physical punishment. People begin to think "hey, maybe it's true that only wealthy, progressive people don't spank. I am not wealthy and that's not the way I parent and that's okay because I belong to a different group." Sounds goofy but I have run into people (in my own circle of friends and family) who take on such a notion--that not spanking is a luxury for only rich, progressive white people.

Prevalence studies or not, I think it's time to put the generalizations away so that everyone knows that they can parent differently and it's okay.

Kylix
post #91 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_lissa
I'm in Southern Ontario, Canada, and some of these posts shock me.
:

I'm in Southern Alberta, Canada and I have to agree with the above. I can honestly say I have never seen anyone here where I live spank their child, tell their child off or anything. Maybe I am living in a bubble because I am a GD parent, but I just can't see it being tolerated here, or if a child was getting a spanking anyone looking on with satisfaction that the parent was doing "something" about it etc, yk? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but that I've never seen it happen around me or in public.

Reading through some of these posts and the idea in some communities that spanking is okay, accepted and touted as an effective form of discipline (not by MDC members but the people who live around them etc) actually made me almost speechless for once and that doesn't happen very often.
post #92 of 154
I didn't have time to read all the replies.
I honestly don't have a single friend who does not spank. I live in South Carolina and that just seems to be the way it is here. I am considered a freak for not spanking my kids. Most of the people I know hit their kids with objects (belts, wooden spoons, etc). I have one friend who pinches instead of spanks???
They hit them in front of anybody. It kills me. What is worse, my DH is pro-spanking and though he for the most part defers to my wishes on that, he is constantly giving me grief about it
I totally need to start reading this section of the boards. I haven't been here much, but the reinforcement would be nice.
post #93 of 154
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MammaKoz
I can honestly say I have never seen anyone here where I live spank their child, tell their child off or anything. Maybe I am living in a bubble because I am a GD parent, but I just can't see it being tolerated here, or if a child was getting a spanking anyone looking on with satisfaction that the parent was doing "something" about it etc, yk? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but that I've never seen it happen around me or in public.
I live in an area like that too -- that's what prompted me to start this post. I think the fact that I seem to live in a non-spanking "bubble" colors the way I perceive many posts that I read here. I tend to think that people are being oversensitive when they say that they get so much criticism for GDing their kids, and I'm realizing as I'm reading these posts that maybe in some (most?) cases, they aren't being oversensitive -- they actually live in a community that looks down on GDing and condones corporeal punishment.

It's just interesting to examine how my reaction to those posts was so skewed by my personal experience (or, in this case, lack thereof). That's the great thing about sites like this -- it exposes us to many different points of view and allows us to learn through others' experiences as well as our own. Thanks for all the eye-opening replies!
post #94 of 154
Bamamom, EXCELLENT idea. If I could just trust myself to say it 'naturally'...I am so self-conscious that I would probably stutter and turn red and it would just be ridiculous...but I suppose as long as she gets the idea and we both save face, that's the important thing. I'll be looking for an opportunity...but my pulse rises whenever I see this woman, and frankly she kind of scares me with her Jekyll and Hyde act, so I don't know if I'll be able to follow through. DH said at one point he was going to talk to the dad (the dd's grandpa, who owns the condo, who always tries to make small talk w/ us) but then he didn't see him for a long time and meanwhile all was quiet on the other side of the wall so DH thought we didn't need to bother talking to them.

I wish there was some socially acceptable way I could give her a parenting book or something, but there really isn't.
post #95 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Softmama
What is worse, my DH is pro-spanking and though he for the most part defers to my wishes on that, he is constantly giving me grief about it
That describes us as well. DH is very pro spanking but has yet to even come close to losing his temper with DD. He typically looks to me to decide what should be done in a particular situation. He keeps saying that I'll cave and I'll be the first to spank, but I am trying my damnest to make sure that doesn't happen! I don't want to be one of those moms...
post #96 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylix
Peacelovingmama,

I'm well aware of those studies. The masters thesis I'm currently working on actually sites them as references.

To me, it's one thing to look at the data and site statistics about prevalence. It's another thing to say "progressive" people do this and "ignorant" people do that. I know what you meant and I don't mean to nitpick or pick on you but I think these statements and the false use of those very prevalence studies perpetuate the use of physical punishment. People begin to think "hey, maybe it's true that only wealthy, progressive people don't spank. I am not wealthy and that's not the way I parent and that's okay because I belong to a different group." Sounds goofy but I have run into people (in my own circle of friends and family) who take on such a notion--that not spanking is a luxury for only rich, progressive white people.

Prevalence studies or not, I think it's time to put the generalizations away so that everyone knows that they can parent differently and it's okay.

Kylix
I appreciate your viewpoint. To clarify, however, I wasn't personally saying that progressive people don't hit and only ignorant people do. I was merely stating that that is a perception/stereotype in my community. For better or worse, that is the perception where I live. I have encountered it many times.

Also, I don't think of hitting kids as just "parenting differently." I think it is unacceptable period and we need to address the underlying cultural, socioeconomic and educational factors in order to successfully address the problem (i.e., pave the way to abolition). And find ways to reach communities where hitting is still widespread and acceptable. If the studies are valid, and wealthier, more educated people do hit less, then we should ask why. What is is that we aren't doing, that we SHOULD be doing to reach poorer, less educated communities?

I would ask the same question about bfing rates. IF there is a community that bfs less, what can we do to disseminate information and offer education and support. I don't think that recognizing certain cultural or socioeconomic tendencies is necessarily a bad thing.

I do see your point in that stereotyping is a dangerous thing and the goal is not to be divisive or alientate people. But maybe people viewing hitting kids as something "ignorant" people do isn't such a bad thing? Maybe that perception could help ease hitting kids gradually out of our culture. After all, the countries that have already banned hitting children do not look favorably upon those who do.

ETA: I have never encountered the view before that people would justify hitting because they think that wealthy, educated people do not do it. I wonder if this might follow naming trends a bit . . . when names become popular among the wealthy, they slowly catch on among the middle class and poor. Cultural influences will play a role, for sure, but I sure would like people to have negative connotations with violence against children, and to aspire to not be violent.
post #97 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nora'sMama
I wish there was some socially acceptable way I could give her a parenting book or something, but there really isn't.
How about this? Go to the thrift store, buy some cute clothes that look like they would fit her child, and some cute used toys. Then buy a used copy of your favorite parenting book, the one that you think seems the most accesible to her, on Amazon. Put it all in a paper bag, go over to her apartment and say, "Hey, my friend gave me this stuff left over for her kid, but I don't want to keep it around forever since it doesn't fit my kid, (or insert plausible excuse here), so I was wondering if you wanted it. And I've read this book, it's great, I love it, have you already read it?"

I've done a modified version of this, and am thinking about doing it again with another friend.
post #98 of 154
well i still believe that it is a journey. i mean you take it out of your toolbox but you know its still in your garage. for me its started with me not wanting to spank. prefering other means of discipline. learning what else to do. or sometimes learning that i don't have to do anything. ykwim?

i do believe that gd is a basic part of ap. and even though ap is not a religion and its basic concepts are not commandments its like with the ten commandments most people have a trouble spot (or several).

and for those of us who grew up being spanked and seeing physical punishment in our environments well it was modeling. negative modeling .
post #99 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by limabean
I live in an area like that too -- that's what prompted me to start this post. I think the fact that I seem to live in a non-spanking "bubble" colors the way I perceive many posts that I read here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MammaKoz
I can honestly say I have never seen anyone here where I live spank their child, tell their child off or anything. Maybe I am living in a bubble because I am a GD parent, but I just can't see it being tolerated here, or if a child was getting a spanking anyone looking on with satisfaction that the parent was doing "something" about it etc, yk? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but that I've never seen it happen around me or in public.
Ditto. I've been pretty amazed at how some people describe mainstream parenting here, describing horrendous acts as typical mainstream parenting, that certainly haven't been anywhere close to mainstream since I've been an adult (more so when I was a kid, people definitely spank less in Canada now than when I was young) I do know some people who spank, but they'd never do it in public, it's totally not socially acceptable behavior here. Amazing how different some regions are.
post #100 of 154
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundhunter
Ditto. I've been pretty amazed at how some people describe mainstream parenting here, describing horrendous acts as typical mainstream parenting, that certainly haven't been anywhere close to mainstream since I've been an adult...
True! I consider myself slightly more toward the AP side of the AP/mainstream continuum, but I find myself getting almost offended when I read posts saying things like, "Oh, you know how those mainstream moms are, they always <insert appalling act here>." I think, "Really? 'Cuz I'm kinda mainstream, and most of my friends and family are even more mainstream, and none of us have ever even thought of doing that."

This thread really has been a huge eye opener. Our definitions of "AP," "mainstream," "normal," etc. are definitely dependent on our direct experience. I guess I knew this, but it's really interesting to see it laid out so clearly here.
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