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Story of the world- pics or just read alound? - Page 2

post #21 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by deeporgarten
If we are different and this particular difference makes me because I really don't understand the gratuitous commentary on potential precocity, or it irritates me more than "average" because I grew up surrounded by adults who were way too interested in my own so-called genius, my high IQ, and my potential, then you can assume I am coming from a different perspective.

Uggh How many times I heard about how early I read, what atypical topics I studied or advanced things I was doing, what my score was on this or that I cannot even begin to count, and I assure you it was NOT a healthy emphasis. (Nobody was obsessed--it was simply a fairly frequent topic) If you are a parent with a precocious child do be careful how you talk about it and how much you "get into it" or even push for more of it once you see that the potential is there. And a parent excited by their child's intelligence can get pushy without even intending to. And lose sight of whole child development for the sake of "mental" or "abilities" development. When I hear (or read here) a lot of comments about stuff like this, to me it suggests imbalance. That doesn't have to be the case, but it IS the reason it starts to rub me the wrong way after a while.
I truly apologize for leading this thread more astray, but was wondering if you could give me your perspective here b/c this post of yours piqued my interest. (I lurk on this forum much more than I post b/c, while I have homeschooled in the past, my girls will be attending a charter school in the fall. I strongly suspect that I am a lot more involved in their education than some of their prior teachers would have liked, though, since there seemed to be a 'give 'em to us and go away' approach at their prior school. I'm hoping that this new school will give us a better balance there.)

Anyway, back to where I was going ...

I was in much the same position as a child as you describe as far as being precocious and out of the norm, but in a complete opposite spot in other regards. I apparently had an IQ test done when I was a teen and hospitalized for an eating disorder, but no one ever told me the results at that time. It was only when my older dd was identified as gifted at age 7 that I looked back in retrospect and realized what was "wrong" with me as a child. In the past year, I have joined Mensa, met a few people with whom I can truly relate and am less isolated emotionally than I was growing up. I knew that there was something different about me, but my self esteem was so rock-bottom low that I simply thought that I was defective in some way and never would have suspected that I was more intelligent, more capable or more of anything (other than more unhappy). There was no focus on my "ability" or whatever you want to call it. I vividly recall, in my early 20s speaking with my aunt and her telling me that it was like my parents "didn't have a daughter" b/c I was just ignored in comparison to my brother who was the star of the family.

Obviously these are two extremes that we experienced here.

I certainly don't want to ignore my dd's abilities and I want her to have the confidence to know that she truly can succeed if she works hard; that she is special and not just weird. I don't want her growing up making up stories in her mind to explain why the other kids don't understand her b/c she doesn't know why she is different. I have been somewhat open with her about what it is that makes her different, but I also want to find that balance. I am not aiming to raise a child with a superiority complex any more than I am aiming to raise a child who is spending her teen years starving herself and slicing her arms with razor blades like I did.

I wonder where you feel that balance lies? If you have a child who is happy to coast and never work and can do the expected work for a child his/her age with no effort, do you just leave it at that? I worry b/c I never learned any study habits and sank like a rock my freshman year at Berkeley b/c I didn't know how to be accountable. I was lazy b/c I was used to life being easy and never having to work to do my best. I want my girls to be challenged only b/c I want them to learn how to put in an effort and a good effort at that.

Do you tell your child why s/he is different? My older dd has known that she was different for as long as she has been around other kids. It's not b/c I have told her so. She came home from kindergarten upset regularly b/c the other kids didn't want to spend the whole recess picking up trash and writing petitions to the principal to get a trashcan on the playground (this is one example of many).

It has only been in the past 6-8 months that we've at all discussed why b/c I want her to understand herself and her gifts. I don't want her to make up reasons on her own. I convinced myself that I was an alien from a planet named Tibit who was stuck inhabiting a human body until I was either 7, 13 or 21 and that my true family would come and rescue me on one of those bds. It can just feel like you are an oddball when the other kids aren't interested in what you are, when your inner life and thoughts are more mature, and other kids look at you like an alien.

I'm being very sincere here. I really want to do right by my daughter. I want her to grow up whole and intact emotionally. How would you approach stretching a child who can obviously do more as well as helping her understand who she is without turning her into an egomaniac?
post #22 of 50
I wanted to suggest Usborne Internet Linked books for those of you who don't know about them yet.
post #23 of 50
Thread Starter 
Oh, I'll bite, and make my thread more off topic.


I think this is one of the potential issues with kids that are advanced/gifted, or whatever you want to call it. Two bright kids, and two very different experiences. Some of it is environment, but some of it is going to also be due to temperment/personality. I think for us as parents, how we deal with it in our own kids does get 'colored' by our experiences.

I look at me... I'm smack dab between both these posts...my parent never made a 'big' deal about it and I never felt 'different'. I didn't have the best 'social' experience with kids in grade school, but was fine in jr high and high school.

It's interesting b/c looking back, my parents almost took an 'unschooling' approach with me. They were hands off. I knew the results of my test scores, and knew I had good grades and was in 'gifted' programs... but at the same time, they NEVER asked me if I had homework to do (if I did, I simply did it)... they never really asked me questions about school. School was simpy my job and I did it. At home time was time with my family, and questions concerned other things. I really like that approach, and try to follow something reasonably similar, BUT tweaked to meet my kid's needs and temperment.

For my oldest... if something doesn't interest her, she will let me know in about 10 seconds, and that's it. So, as the one poster said, her kids LOVED to listen to daddy read anything.. my oldest would hate it. She is beyond basic picture books, and wants something with a more complex story and long story, BUT still wants pictures, b/c THAT it was fires her imagination. BUT, that is my child, and her temperment.. while other kids simply want to hear everything and anything a person can possibly read.

I read dd a March of the Penguin book, b/c she likes penguins... lots of pictures, yet of course tailored to adults. She loved it, though, and I knew she would, and she spent the next hour pretending to be a penguin that didn't have it's swim feathers, and making complex scenarios. (she even had a friendly polar bear come down from the arctic and visit her ;-) )


To me, the key to the balance between not having your child get sick of hearing about 'how smart they are' or just an unmeaning emphasis on intellegence, and the other extreme of your child feeling like some sort of alien from space.... is understanding your child's temperment and getting that emotional dialogue with them early.




For me, in the event I don't homeschool, and in the event the girls end up in gifted classes, well they'll be aware they are in the class, but I won't make any bigger deal about it than any other part of their life. They will get to see their test scores, just like they'd see their report cards, or any other information like that... but again, no big deal. For some kids they may need to have that talked up a bit more, and other kids need it back burnered... a child that is highly emotional and feels they can't fit it.... whether b/c of intellegence, looks, whatever... they do need that extra 'help' to get through that stage.

Like everything in parenting, it just depends on each individual child and temperment.

HTH!

Tammy
post #24 of 50
Ok, I just can't help it - but what IF your child is just weird? I mean, they like odd things, they reenact strange scenarios, are very sensitive, they like reading a lot (but only Garfield) yet you strongly suspect they are of average intelligence by all conventional IQ testing methodologies. What if there is no excuse for the weirdness? Can't that be cool, in of itself? What shall I say to her, "Oh, honey, you're just an indigo child, that's why you're different. Now can you wait to play 'pegaunidonkey's colossal church experience' until we leave the restaurant?"

What IF they are Tibits, in other words? And there is no Tibit testing methodology? Well, then you're just hosed as they are neither cheetah nor snail, but pegaunidonkeys named Tibit. Some kids feel different, and that's the shakes, because their parents haven't repressed it out of them yet. Maybe many children would be different and gifted if they weren't always pressured to be so dang normal, whatever that means. I still feel different, and I just find other adults who are also OK with their quirks and funky selves.

I like your approach, quaz. And, for the record, not that anyone cares, but I think SOTW is very poorly written, although a nice concept in essence. How many times can an author use the word, "that?" Some strong editing assistance was needed and not provided.
post #25 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Gwen
The D'Aulaires have some cool history books with lots of pictures.
Who ?? What ?? are the D'Aulaires ????????
Can I view this on Amazon or another website.Thanks
post #26 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAmma
I wanted to suggest Usborne Internet Linked books for those of you who don't know about them yet.
How do you access these ??
Thanks
post #27 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhTheThinks.....
Who ?? What ?? are the D'Aulaires ????????
Can I view this on Amazon or another website.Thanks
Now see, they rock. Start from here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/038...lance&n=283155 and search on...
post #28 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by deeporgarten
I guess it is that I have no idea why anyone would want to choose SOTW for 3yo for history, or why that even comes up in relation to the original question. If we are different and this particular difference makes me because I really don't understand the gratuitous commentary on potential precocity,
The OP said her daughter was "about four." I took that to mean that she was three and rapidly approaching her fourth birthday. My response was simply that I didn't think that three was too young. There was no "gratuitous commentary on potential precocity."

What I'm reading is that you attacked my post because you've got issues with the way that your parents handled your giftedness. I'm sorry that it sucked for you, but that's something better addressed on the "Support for Gifted Adults" thread. Lots and lots of gifted children are still irritated by all of the things that their parents did wrong. I just wanted to say this: The fact that I choose to read this sort of thing to my three year old doesn't mean that I'm running around telling anyone and everyone about how gifted my child is. It doesn't mean that this ever comes up in conversation in real life at all outside of the family or in his presense. There's no need to assume that because I choose to discuss our homeschooling selections here that I'm making a huge fuss about it everywhere else that we go. Yes, people can see that my child is different a lot of the time, and yes, strangers occasionally feel at liberty to comment on it, but I tend to say, "We think that he's wonderful, too," or something equally non-specific and non-offensive. You don't have to attack me for repeating your parents' mistakes, especially when I'm not making them. I find *that* offensive.
post #29 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhTheThinks.....
How do you access these ??
Useborne Internet Linked books are regular books with supplemental internet content. You go to a the website mentioned in the book, put in the page number and that's it. I was skeptical at first, but there are some great resources there. We have the History Encylcopedia. Your library should have most of them.
post #30 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama
Ok, I just can't help it - but what IF your child is just weird? I mean, they like odd things, they reenact strange scenarios, are very sensitive, they like reading a lot (but only Garfield) yet you strongly suspect they are of average intelligence by all conventional IQ testing methodologies. What if there is no excuse for the weirdness? Can't that be cool, in of itself? What shall I say to her, "Oh, honey, you're just an indigo child, that's why you're different. Now can you wait to play 'pegaunidonkey's colossal church experience' until we leave the restaurant?"

What IF they are Tibits, in other words? And there is no Tibit testing methodology? Well, then you're just hosed as they are neither cheetah nor snail, but pegaunidonkeys named Tibit. Some kids feel different, and that's the shakes, because their parents haven't repressed it out of them yet. Maybe many children would be different and gifted if they weren't always pressured to be so dang normal, whatever that means. I still feel different, and I just find other adults who are also OK with their quirks and funky selves.
I have kids like that *weirdo* is a term of endearment in our house LOL! The all know they are different and relish in it. My oldest will often say *being normal must be so boring*.

This goes along with having a special needs child, or at least it does for me. From the beginning I was blessed to find an autistic adult (on line) that wrote about respecting a child's autisticness (is that a word?) and allowing them to be the way they are instead of trying to normalize them. It really struck home with me. I have never been of the bent that say *my child afflicted with autism*. She's not *afflicted* with anything, it's part of who she is. My job is to teach her to navigate the world in all her autistic glory, which I hope I am doing. OT helps her to deal with the sensory things that bother her (like crowd noise and fire drills) so we do that. Mainstreaming her would try and make her into every other child so we don't do that. I want to help her be comfortable with herself and also comfortable with the world around her.

Anyway, I also try to treat my other children with similar respect and the results have been amazing IMO. Take Kelsey; she is equally at home cheering (an activity one tends to associate with the highest degree of uniformity), discussing the many wives of Henry VIII or the internal organs of dragons. She will play Marco Polo with the other kids and then leave the game to help (unasked) a mother on shore catch an escaping toddler. What wondrous things happen when you stop trying to make kids *fit in* eh?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now to answer the OP I have a couple of history books that might be of interest. The National Geographic Almanac of World History and The Story of Mankind. Both have short, but well written (IMO) chapters and many illustrations (SOM) and photos (AOWH). SOM is an older text so you may have to edit a bit for content but it's worth it IMO. They may be a bit too advanced, but not knowing the child in question I couldn't say for sure.
post #31 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama
Ok, I just can't help it - but what IF your child is just weird? I mean, they like odd things, they reenact strange scenarios, are very sensitive, they like reading a lot (but only Garfield) yet you strongly suspect they are of average intelligence by all conventional IQ testing methodologies. What if there is no excuse for the weirdness? Can't that be cool, in of itself? What shall I say to her, "Oh, honey, you're just an indigo child, that's why you're different. Now can you wait to play 'pegaunidonkey's colossal church experience' until we leave the restaurant?"

What IF they are Tibits, in other words? And there is no Tibit testing methodology? Well, then you're just hosed as they are neither cheetah nor snail, but pegaunidonkeys named Tibit. Some kids feel different, and that's the shakes, because their parents haven't repressed it out of them yet. Maybe many children would be different and gifted if they weren't always pressured to be so dang normal, whatever that means. I still feel different, and I just find other adults who are also OK with their quirks and funky selves.

I like your approach, quaz. And, for the record, not that anyone cares, but I think SOTW is very poorly written, although a nice concept in essence. How many times can an author use the word, "that?" Some strong editing assistance was needed and not provided.
LOL!!!!

Oh, I think I'm one of those pegaunidonkeys!!
Majored in the hard sciences, but best in class in English. Logical, but emotional. Hobbies are things like drawing, writing... quite different than the work I'd do.

I never felt different as in out of place, but know I don't fit neatly in any of those lovely personality tests.

My oldest, I'm afraid may fall in one of these scenarios... where she IS very sensitive, always pretending, loves books, and builds cool structures... but no 'academic' interests. I believe she falls in that 'gifted' range, but not sure she will 'test' there if we go the school route... I'm afraid she'll be be highly misunderstood, so i'm considering homeschooling for higher levels.

Amazing child, and fits that category of pegaunidonkey.
So, we do what fits her, and we make it up as we go.


Oh, and yah, dd will be 4 in September.

Tammy
post #32 of 50
Getting back to the original controversy ... what "mature content" is in Story of the World that makes it inappropriate for a 3 year old? Coarse language, graphic violence, booze & tattoos? Inquiring minds want to know!
post #33 of 50
I've actually never seen that book, but it sounded to me like the implication was that the story would be hard to follow for younger children, not that it was too graphic for young children.

As to what a child can follow, I wouldn't presume to know what any child could or could not follow or comprehend at any given age.

What I was attempting for ferret out was whether some of you feel that it is inappropriate to push or stretch a child to a point that s/he is capable of reaching if the child himself is not the one insisting on the harder content. Is 'above level' content only appropriate if it is actively sought out by the child himself or can it be appropriate for a parent to introduce challenging material to a child with the knowledge that the child could do it if s/he tried?
post #34 of 50
Quote:
or can it be appropriate for a parent to introduce challenging material to a child with the knowledge that the child could do it if s/he tried?
I don't think that was the mind set of the op. I think it was more 'will this interest the child'. I think if the child threw the book into the fireplace or displayed simerlar means of saying 'I don't like this' that the book would be quickly shelved.
post #35 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by lckrause
Getting back to the original controversy ... what "mature content" is in Story of the World that makes it inappropriate for a 3 year old? Coarse language, graphic violence, booze & tattoos? Inquiring minds want to know!
Well, I don't know about you, but I save stilted writing and boring stories until at least 3rd grade. Sort of like, "Should I read him Moby Dick now at age three and kill his love of reading; or wait until age nine?"

But I'm a low-culture snob, who cares what I think?
post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by joandsarah77
I don't think that was the mind set of the op. I think it was more 'will this interest the child'. I think if the child threw the book into the fireplace or displayed simerlar means of saying 'I don't like this' that the book would be quickly shelved.
I agree that seems to be where the OP was going, but the thread kind of morphed into a question as to whether parents were pushing inappropriate (content/interest wise) material onto young children. That's where I have the question.

Say, if a kid is interested in the story line of a Jules Verne story and can follow it, but it is a bit of a challenge for her to read it, would it be wrong to ask her to try reading it? Or, if a 3 y/o can generally understand SOTW (the book at the subject of this thread) but has a bit of trouble with following it at times and might better understand a less mature book, is it wrong for the parent to choose to read SOTW to said child in the interests of stretching the child a bit beyond his/her comfort zone?

Further, if a book that seems inappropriate for most little kids is appropriate for some little kids due to a difference in brain wiring or precociouness, or whatever, is it still inappropriate for that child's parent to choose that book?

I'm really not trying to start an argument; I want to find that balance btwn adequate challenging and excessive pushing.
post #37 of 50
Quote:
if a kid is interested in the story line of a Jules Verne story and can follow it, but it is a bit of a challenge for her to read it, would it be wrong to ask her to try reading it?
Well if she wants to read it I guess she would and if she started and found it too hard I guess she would stop? I don't really get the question. I don't think the parent has to ask her to try reading it, if the child is intrested in it, she would naturaly try and read it I think. it's not like a book report for school or anything. If she was intrested but obvoisly to hard for her to read for herself why couldn't the parent just read it aloud to her? I think if the parent knows the book is too hard and is trying to encourage a reluctent child to read the book knowing it will be a challange then there likly to cause that child to hate reading.
post #38 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by joandsarah77
I think if the parent knows the book is too hard and is trying to encourage a reluctent child to read the book knowing it will be a challange then there likly to cause that child to hate reading.
I think that if a child is only presented with reading material that is at or below their comfort level that they'll react negatively when they're presented with reading material that is challenging for them, and they won't achieve anything like their potential as readers. I'd rather see my children look at new, "out of range" material as a challenge that they can manage than something outrageous and "too hard."
post #39 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama
Well, I don't know about you, but I save stilted writing and boring stories until at least 3rd grade. Sort of like, "Should I read him Moby Dick now at age three and kill his love of reading; or wait until age nine?"
I don't think that Moby Dick is boring, but that might be me; I've met lots of people who do find it boring, and recently read a graphic novel in which the more boring aspects of Moby Dick were a running joke. As to the writing in SotW, I don't think it's all that bad, but I did make it through two and a half "Left Behind" books before I got too sick to read on.
post #40 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by eilonwy
I don't think that Moby Dick is boring, but that might be me; I've met lots of people who do find it boring, and recently read a graphic novel in which the more boring aspects of Moby Dick were a running joke. As to the writing in SotW, I don't think it's all that bad, but I did make it through two and a half "Left Behind" books before I got too sick to read on.
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