I need to vent

[kimkabob5]

My main webite is alot more mainstream than this. Recently a circumcision debate came up on the general debate board. I bit my tongue so hard that it is practically bleeding. I know that I know how to be diplomatic and not offend people, but circ is so horrendous to me that I just want to throw up. And I have some very good friends there that circed and don't believe the anti "propaganda".

How the heck is it okay to strap a newborn baby down, forcibly scrape the foreskin off the head of the penis, clamp it then cut it off? Do people just not realize what the act of circumcision entails? Do they think it is licked off by kittens? Don't they feel for their precious newborn baby who has never felt air on his skin to be subjected to serious pain on their most sensitive organ.

Maybe I'm just a sap. I cry for these babies. I care that they are in needless pain at such a vulnerable age. Can't they at least wait for six weeks, until feeding is established and bonding has taken place? Until he has adjusted to life outside the womb? Why do it at birth?

I know I am preaching to the choir here but sometimes I just have to let my feelings out so I don't explode somewhere inappropriate.

[Bartock]

Originally Posted by kimkabob5

Maybe I'm just a sap. I cry for these babies. I care that they are in needless pain at such a vulnerable age. Can't they at least wait for six weeks, until feeding is established and bonding has taken place? Until he has adjusted to life outside the womb? Why do it at birth?

Why even do it at all????

[kimkabob5]

Originally Posted by ilovemy2ds

Why even do it at all????

Exactly. But if they are going to, and some people are going to no matter what, why can't they wait until the baby is less vulnerable?????? Probably because by then they will be so bonded to the baby that they wouldn't let it be done.

I guess I'm realistic. I think circ is horrible anyway. I think it is a human rights violation. I think it alters a couple's sexuality forever and not in a good way. I resent the fact that my dh is circed and we will never have sex as nature intended it.

But if these people would just understand the pain aspect, and the vulnerability of the newborn, maybe they would reconsider. That is where I start from with people who are procirc. iIt worked really well when I was a childbirth educator. I guess it doesn't work as well over the internet.

[Hey Mama!]

I know what website you are referring to-I used to be a member there but had to leave because I couldn't tolerate it anymore.

Do people just not realize what the act of circumcision entails? Do they think it is licked off by kittens?

They probably don't really know exactly what is done during circumcision. I remember when my youngest brother came home from the hospital with his circ wound. I asked my mom about it and she said it was just a little piece of skin that had to be cut off so he could pee. I thought it looked horrible (at the tender age of 8). I totally believed the circ was neccessary until I was a teen and my best friend had an intact boyfriend. I really started researching when I thought I was having a boy. I was horrified when I saw the video. I think if people really were aware, they wouldn't do it.

[Microsoap]

Originally Posted by Hey Mama!

I know what website you are referring to-I used to be a member there but had to leave because I couldn't tolerate it anymore.



They probably don't really know exactly what is done during circumcision. I remember when my youngest brother came home from the hospital with his circ wound. I asked my mom about it and she said it was just a little piece of skin that had to be cut off so he could pee. I thought it looked horrible (at the tender age of 8). I totally believed the circ was neccessary until I was a teen and my best friend had an intact boyfriend. I really started researching when I thought I was having a boy. I was horrified when I saw the video. I think if people really were aware, they wouldn't do it.

So your mom double lied to you. :

To the OP: lmfao Licked off by kittens is so sarcastically perfect for words it just makes common sense!

[laneylue]

I totally know how you feel. I am often deeply dissapointed by some AP websites where women are breastfeeding, babywearing, anti-CIO, anti-spanking, crunchy mommies in general and then think nothing of circumcising their sons. They are content to leave that one decision "up to the father" who almost always wants his son circumcised. I will just never understand it.

I also will never understand people who ignore facts, refuse to listen to reason, worry more about what others think than how their baby will feel, continue to use lame rationalizations as an excuse not to have to make the big decisions, or who spend more time researching baby products and working on their baby registries than researching a surgical procedure that will be performed on their son's genitals. It really makes me sick.

[Quirky]

Another big ditto here. The other board where I post (hi laneylue!) these mamas think nothing of researching baby gear for hours, the board is pretty AP-oriented, many if not most are huge breastfeeding advocates, and there's a thread right now of women with no regrets about circ - "I'd do it again! He's FINE! DH felt so strongly about it, and hey, he's the one with the penis!"

[Treece]

Originally Posted by Quirky

"I'd do it again! He's FINE! DH felt so strongly about it, and hey, he's the one with the penis!"

Um, no, the penis in question belongs to the child being mutilated!!

[Hey Mama!]

Originally Posted by Microsoap

So your mom double lied to you. :

To the OP: lmfao Licked off by kittens is so sarcastically perfect for words it just makes common sense!

Yes, she did. Recently I was visiting and my brother and his girlfriend were discussing circing their unborn son. My dh said to them, don't talk about this in front of Brandi or you'll get an earful. I tried to get into the convo, and my mom asked me why I wouldn't circ. I told her it was totally unneccessary and she pulled out the "well, when he is old he might be in a nursing home and it won't get cleaned properly" bs. I just rolled my eyes. My dn was circed:

[laneylue]

Originally Posted by Quirky

Another big ditto here. The other board where I post (hi laneylue!) these mamas think nothing of researching baby gear for hours, the board is pretty AP-oriented, many if not most are huge breastfeeding advocates, and there's a thread right now of women with no regrets about circ - "I'd do it again! He's FINE! DH felt so strongly about it, and hey, he's the one with the penis!"

Hey Girlie! I read the first page of that thread and I was just like "wow." I had to stop reading. Oh yeah, and I also just love how to many AP moms, if you formula feed by choice you are the anti-Christ, but permanently altering your son's genitals is ok.

The thing about "well, I leave it up to my husband because he's the one with the penis" bothers me because he may have a penis, but chances are he only knows his penis one way. For instance, DH is circ'ed, so why would I leave the decision up to him when he has no idea what it's like to be intact?! Seems like a no-brainer, but whatever.

Plus, I would love to ask these same women if they would let their husbands give their baby a tattoo simply because their husband is the one with a tattoo? I dunno, I just don't see the logic.

[iris0110]

Yep I saw that thread reading it made me want to puke. Especially the posts by a certain member in the medical field. Apparently they were upset by another post about mom's who regretted circing the first and so wouldn't do the next. I am on several other boards where everyone is mainly AP, and yet these threads keep coming up, and so many moms stand up for circing. I am so sick of the "well dh really wanted it done, and since he has the penis" argument. Ok fine, your dh has a penis, then he can have it cut up any way he wants. Some one here said it perfectly, circumcision creates circumcisers. Just like any other form of abuse.

[ChristaN]

I remember when my youngest brother came home from the hospital with his circ wound. I asked my mom about it and she said it was just a little piece of skin that had to be cut off so he could pee.

I generally believe that children are a good judge of whether something is moral or not. In other words, if you tell a child factually what something is with no specific effort to sway his/her opinion one way or another and the child is horrified, there is a good chance that there is something wrong with the practice. (Honest answers to questions about 'what is circ' or 'what is a slave,' etc. tend to elicit horror from a child unless we follow up our explanations with rationalizations like your mom did.)

I had a bit of a conversation with my dds the other day about what circ was -- long story as to how it came up. They asked what circ meant and I told them that it involved cutting off the skin on the end of a boy baby's penis. My 7 year old's jaw about hit the floor and she said, "they cut off the baby's penis?!!!" I did clarify , but if you've got a kid that horrified without any effort on my part to lead her to feel one way or another, it indicates to me that there is something wrong with the practice.

[Quirky]

Originally Posted by ChristaN

I generally believe that children are a good judge of whether something is moral or not. In other words, if you tell a child factually what something is with no specific effort to sway his/her opinion one way or another and the child is horrified, there is a good chance that there is something wrong with the practice. (Honest answers to questions about 'what is circ' or 'what is a slave,' etc. tend to elicit horror from a child unless we follow up our explanations with rationalizations like your mom did.)

I had a bit of a conversation with my dds the other day about what circ was -- long story as to how it came up. They asked what circ meant and I told them that it involved cutting off the skin on the end of a boy baby's penis. My 7 year old's jaw about hit the floor and she said, "they cut off the baby's penis?!!!" I did clarify , but if you've got a kid that horrified without any effort on my part to lead her to feel one way or another, it indicates to me that there is something wrong with the practice.

No kidding. Out of the mouths of babes, as they say....

Originally Posted by iris0110

Yep I saw that thread reading it made me want to puke. Especially the posts by a certain member in the medical field. Apparently they were upset by another post about mom's who regretted circing the first and so wouldn't do the next. I am on several other boards where everyone is mainly AP, and yet these threads keep coming up, and so many moms stand up for circing. I am so sick of the "well dh really wanted it done, and since he has the penis" argument. Ok fine, your dh has a penis, then he can have it cut up any way he wants. Some one here said it perfectly, circumcision creates circumcisers. Just like any other form of abuse.

I so wish I had the guts to PM her and ask her whether in all of her and her dh's medical training they ever learned ANYTHING about the foreskin other than how to cut it off....