how not to have an allergic child - Page 2

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

Diabetes Type 2 is not inherited. But lifestyle is. And diabetes type 2 doesn't need cornsyrup, just a dedication to carbs, preferable white refined carbs. And alcohol. And a few other "habits" easily inherrited by observation and doing as your elders did.

Exactly. There is a big difference between the Mediterranean diet of fish, full fat yogurt and cheese, olive oil, beans, nuts and lot of fresh vegetables and fruits and the white flour pasta/garlic bread/Tiramisu sort of diet.

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by craftymom

I find this statement to be so--oh, clueless, for lack of a more precise term--that it actually made me laugh, it didn't even make me mad. In my family, we're _all_ pretty darn allergic. Including 3 of my 4 grandparents, who lived through the fear of polio with their _own_ children, and didn't get any immunizations til they were adults (and, perhaps, not until they were elderly and began getting flu shots). My gm with asthma even grew up on a farm, had housecats and dogs, the whole 9 yards, eating incredible homeemade Italian food. Exactly what "experts" now say protect you from asthma (OK, not the ravioli). hahahaha. And I have the exact same type of asthma as she did. My other gm well remembers her own mother's horrible hay fever.

For us, "luck of the draw" means WHAT allergies you will get, not if.

My gggrandfather also died of type 2 diabetes over 100 years ago, and 2 of his ggkids had it, and now it's coming out in my mom's generation. Coincidence? High fructose corn syrup? I think not.

Your grandmother's homemade Italian food probably consisted of TONS of refined white flour. Your complete dismissal of nutrition and gut flora as a cause of allergies is an utterly uneducated opinion. It's shocking, in fact. Have you ever even read any of the studies relating allergies to gut flora? It has been studied to exhaustion. And do you know how to have a healthy gut? Because a diet high on white flour isn't going to give you that, regardless of how long you were breastfed, or whether you were vaccinated, ate dirt, had pets or whatever else, and that is the most likely cause for your grandparents' allergies.

Experts all agree that type 2 diabetes is completely unrelated to genetics. Your family's history of the disease only further proves that they've suffered from an unhealthy diet, not faulty genes.

[Wolfmeis]

Originally Posted by JaneS

I could not disagree more with the belief that this is inherited or luck of the draw.

It's all about nutrition and your gut flora. And whether the natural immune system is suppressed with drugs and vaccinations.

This is absolutely untrue. Again, semantics. IgE allergies have nothing at all to do with nutrition or lack thereof. You can't fix an anaphylactic immune response with more / better probiotics. You can fix a whole hell of a lot, but this is an entire different level of hell,and it's insulting to have a discussion like this.

My kids don't eat the mainstream, white flour, corn syrup nastified American diet. We are all getting healthier and healthier, that is true. But it hasn't lessoned my daughter's allergies.

Originally Posted by janes

I've cured myself of 4 immune conditions that modern medicine has little answers for: severe hay fever, IBS, interstitial cystitis and chronic hormonal acne.

None of these immune conditions is IgE regulated. Again, I am not disagreeing with the idea that what you are putting out there is healthy or a good way to be. I agree with you that nutrition is insanely important.... cutting out refined sugars and carbohydrates got rid of my rhinitis, for instance. But you guys aren't listening at all to the research and hell we've been through with true medical allergies. It's not the same thing.

I am extremely concerned that a Momma new to food allergies is going to come on here, read this and seriously harm her child. What you have to offer is sound advice, but it is not an appropriate response to OP. It's an entirely different set of diagnostic criteria.

[JenniferKSwan]

Wolfmeis



Thank you!

Did I list off my diet early in this thread, yes. Do I hope it will keep DS#2 from developing allergies, yes. Do I think there is a snowball's chance in hell considering our history, I just don't know. I only hope if DS#2 does have allergies that they will be similar and not opposite of DS#1's.

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by Wolfmeis

IgE allergies have nothing at all to do with nutrition or lack thereof. You can't fix an anaphylactic immune response with more / better probiotics. You can fix a whole hell of a lot, but this is an entire different level of hell,and it's insulting to have a discussion like this.

The OP never mentioned anaphylaxis. Most experts do agree that, once you reach the point of anaphylaxis, there is no cure. However, the OP never once mentions anything about anaphylaxis. Furthermore, we're not talking about CURING anaphylaxis here, we're talking about PREVENTING it, which is a whole different ballgame. You wouldn't compare curing tetanus to preventing tetanus, so why the heck would you try to compare curing anaphylactic allergies to preventing them? It makes no sense.

ALL type 1 hypersensitivity responses are IgE mediated, but they aren't all anaphylactic responses. And your typical, run of the mill, anaphylactoid (as opposed to anaphylactic) allergy most certainly CAN be positively affected or even cured by probiotics. If that statement is "insulting" to you, it's either because a) you haven't read any of the research or b) you mistakenly thought that all IgE allergies were anaphylactic responses, therefore leading you to believe (also mistakenly) that all IgE allergies were unaffected by treatment of probiotics.

Here is some actual research for you. It all clearly shows that treatment with probiotics has a beneficial effect on allergies. Maybe the OP and some others who actually want to learn, will see how to prevent their child from reaching the point of anaphylaxis by using probiotics before it gets to that point. I would suggest that anyone hell bent on not accepting the idea that probiotics can prevent or reduce allergic responses should not read these links, because they will force you to reevaluate your stance. Either that, or to stomp your foot like a four-year-old and refuse to admit you were wrong, in spite of the damning evidence against your belief.

A long-term reduction in allergy has been shown in the test group, with lactobacillus reducing the incidence of atopic eczema. Management of allergy through probiotics has also been demonstrated in infants, using lactobacilli to control atopic eczema and cow's milk allergy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

CONCLUSION: Treatment with LGG may alleviate AEDS symptoms in IgE-sensitized infants but not in non-IgE-sensitized infants.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum
Isn't IgE-related allergy exactly what you just said could not be affected by probiotics? And yet these researchers determined that infants with eczema, caused by IgE mediated cow's milk allergy, improved when given Lactobacillus GG, a probiotic. Seriously, you should consider trying Culturelle, which contains LGG. It might help your kids' eczema. It's been proven to reduce the risk of cavities, as well.

Normally, the transport of allergens through the intestinal epithelia to the blood is limited. It is hypothesised that if these compounds arrive in the blood circulation, they must percolate through the epithelial cell layer. Thus, food allergy (and thus atopic eczema) implies an increased intercellular leakage of the gut wall. Such increased intercellular leakage is thought to be caused by a slightly changed cellular morphology due to a slight cytopathologic effect because of both a limited decay of the cytoskeleton and a slightly reduced turgor. These events may be due to a reduced production of intracellular metabolic energy in the epithelial cells due to an increased concentration of familiar, frequently occurring, potentially toxic bacterial metabolites, i.e., d-lactic acid and/or ethanol. In this hypothesis we suggest that adequate probiotics can (i) prevent the increased characteristic intestinal permeability of children with atopic eczema and food allergy, (ii) can thus prevent the uptake of allergens, and (iii) finally can prevent the expression of the atopic constitution. The use of adequate probiotic lactobacilli, i.e., homolactic and/or facultatively heterolactic l-lactic acid-producing lactobacilli, reduces the intestinal amounts of the bacterial, toxic metabolites, d-lactic acid and ethanol by fermentative production of merely the non-toxic l-lactic acid from glucose. Thus, it is thought that beneficial probiotic micro-organisms promote gut barrier function and both undo and prevent unfavourable intestinal micro-ecological alterations in allergic individuals.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

Probiotics act by reducing intestinal inflammation, since, to a certain extent, Gram-positive microorganisms correct lymphocyte imbalances, as they are powerful stimulators of the Th1 cytokines, IL-12 and IFN-gamma. Moreover, some of the lactobacilli and bifidobacilli that can be administered favor IgA production and reduce IgE production by increasing the uptake of antigens by Peyer's patches, and also improve intestinal processing of antigens ingested in the diet, among other favorable effects.6

Hmmmm. Sounds like a surefire way to prevent allergies to me. They also say:

Lactobacillus GG was administered to pregnant women at high risk for atopy for the last 4 weeks of pregnancy and the first 3 months of breastfeeding and to neonates for the first 6 months of life. In both studies, the frequency of atopic eczema at 2 years was significantly lower in the group of children who received preventive treatment than in those who did not.

So maybe, rather than tell the OP unhelpful things like, "It's the luck of the draw," we should be telling her she should supplement with probiotics, specifically Culturelle, since it is the only one currently available in the US that contains Lactobacillus GG. (And OP, this is *exactly* what you should be doing right now.)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum

I could post about 20 more, but if a person can read all these links, and still believe probiotics are useless in the prevention of allergies, that person would be a lost cause, forever destined to draw the short straw. Therefore, I'll stop here, and assume those who actually want to learn something, will.

[mclisa]

Thanks plummeting for sharing your research. It has certainly given me something to read. I prefer scientific journals (part of my work training) such that you've provided rather than reading testimonials off some website that is trying to sell me something. Very interesting about pg moms taking it the last bit of their pregnancy/bf and to the infant. Something that I will want to contemplate in the future.

I know that my kids are at risk for developing allergies because of genetics. My paternal grandma had asthma (so before the devlopment of too clean of environment). My dad has asthma and horrible seasonal allergies. I have one sister that was allergic to milk as a kid and is still peanut allergic. She has asthma. My other sister is allergic to cats and ragweed, but no asthma. I have alot more seasonal allergies than her as well as the cat allergy, but again no asthma. So I see a wide spectrum of what can happen and I just want to minimize it.

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by mclisa

Thanks plummeting for sharing your research. It has certainly given me something to read. I prefer scientific journals (part of my work training) such that you've provided rather than reading testimonials off some website that is trying to sell me something. Very interesting about pg moms taking it the last bit of their pregnancy/bf and to the infant. Something that I will want to contemplate in the future.

I know that my kids are at risk for developing allergies because of genetics. My paternal grandma had asthma (so before the devlopment of too clean of environment). My dad has asthma and horrible seasonal allergies. I have one sister that was allergic to milk as a kid and is still peanut allergic. She has asthma. My other sister is allergic to cats and ragweed, but no asthma. I have alot more seasonal allergies than her as well as the cat allergy, but again no asthma. So I see a wide spectrum of what can happen and I just want to minimize it.

Genetics are a factor, but not nearly as much as people think. My DD has had terrible dental health issues, and I spent several months believing that it was all genetic - that there was nothing I could do to help her. My DH has bad teeth, I had bad baby teeth (although my adult teeth are almost perfect) and I thought she was doomed. After all, "everyone" knows bad teeth are genetic.

Then a scientist I know explained it to me - rather than being a cause of health problems, our genes are much more passive than that. Unless we have a specific genetic defect, like cystic fibrosis or sickle cell anemia, our genes do not make us sick - they don't cause allergies, they don't cause dental disease and they don't cause cancer. It's only when our genes are acted upon by an outside force, such as pollution, less than optimal diet, gut dysbiosis and a million other things, that we end up with those problems. We have genetic predispositions to things, but there is no such thing as a "strong" genetic predisposition - none at all. It's hard to separate the effects of our diet, our living conditions and our gut flora from the effects of our genes, because we tend to pass those things onto our children as consistently as we pass our genes onto them.

Gut flora even more than diet, in fact, because it's so hard to change it. We can correct our childhood diet, but that alone generally won't correct our gut flora, especially when you throw antibiotics into the mix. Therefore, rather than your family having some mutant allergy gene, they have had a bad balance of gut flora, for generations. And every time a mother has given birth to her babies, she has passed that onto her children. Every time a mother breastfed, she passed that onto her children. Every time she bottlefed, she made the problem even worse. Every time someone took antibiotics, without taking probiotics (and probiotics didn't even exist 25 years ago) the problem became even worse. If your dad had allergies, it was because his mother passed on her gut dysbiosis, not because she passed on bad genes.

This is all evidenced by the fact that the incidence of allergies has increased exponentially in the past 50 years. It is impossible that it could be due to genetics. If it were due to genetics, there would obviously be a higher number of people with allergies, just because there are more people on the planet today than there were 50 years ago. However, the proportions would be the same. If only 5% of people had allergies 50 years ago, and allergies were genetic, then only 5% of people (give or take a few, obviously) should have allergies today. But that's not the case. There has been a HUGE increase in the percentage of people with allergies and in the number of allergies allergic people have. Genetics couldn't cause that.

Since the problem of allergies has become more prevalent with formula feeding (which equals bad, bad gut dysbiosis), poor diet, invention of antibiotics, it's more in line with the science to believe that, in the presence of gut dysbiosis (and probably other factors, too), your family develops multiple (severe?) allergies. Your genes predispose you to it, if certain conditions present themselves, but your genes alone won't cause you to develop allergies.

I haven't had nearly enough sleep and I'm rambling waaayyy to much to try to make a point (although probably more to lurkers than to you, since you seem to have gotten it already, lol). The point is that you can take some control of this. There will be factors, like pollution and maybe even the occasional necessary antibiotic, that will be out of your control. I am not one to believe that allergies can ALWAYS be prevented or cured in ALL people ALL the time, because there are so many factors we really can't control involved. But I definitely believe we can reduce the risk to our children - and that some people can cure their allergies. It's just worth trying, because there is definitely nothing at all to lose, and so much to gain.

[Gale Force]

Originally Posted by Wolfmeis

I am extremely concerned that a Momma new to food allergies is going to come on here, read this and seriously harm her child. What you have to offer is sound advice, but it is not an appropriate response to OP. It's an entirely different set of diagnostic criteria.

No one has suggested that moms or children should be exposed to allergens. Given that, it is unclear why it would be so "dangerous" to recommend a healthy diet to pregnant moms or their children under any circumstances. What is your understanding of allergies that suggests that a nutrient-dense diet would be dangerous?

[wendy1221]

Originally Posted by JaneS

I could not disagree more with the belief that this is inherited or luck of the draw.

It's all about nutrition and your gut flora. And whether the natural immune system is suppressed with drugs and vaccinations.

Nutrition/Immunology 101
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=406983

Probiotics 101
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...3&postcount=15

My short answer is excellent diet (Nourishing Traditions), lots of homemade yogurt/kefir/fermented veggies for probiotics, healthy traditional fats, high vitamin cod liver oil, and digestive enzymes.

I had a homebirth with my 3rd (9 mos old) and his is unvaxed, never had antibiotics. He is the one w/ allergies. I also took probiotics the whole time I was pregnant. I am allergic to milk, so I didn't do yogurt/kefir, but I did have soy yogurt once in a while. THe probiotics were daily. He is allergic to milk, eggs, soy, peanuts, tree nuts, wheat, and shellfish. So the only 1 of the top 8 he tested negative to was fish. I also think he is allergic to peas since he started puking when he had some a few days ago.

That said, if I had to do it all over again, knowing then what I know now, I would limit the amounts of the top 8 allergens that I eat A LOT! As in hardly at all. My sister also has 2 kids w/ allergies and she is planning on TTC in teh next few months. She lives in rural OH, so when we go out next month, I am bringing her a ton of rice flour, Sunbutter, allergen free choc chips (Enjoy Life), and some other top 8 free supplies. Like a case of each. SHe is planning on limiting her consumption of the top 8 w/ this pregnancy to lessen the baby's chances of food allergies.

Maybe do a rotation diet? Get good prenatals (my midwife recommended Nature's Plus Ultra Prenatals), eat well, take good quality probiotics, etc. I think having a healthy lifestyle has got to help. My oldest also had multiple food allergies, but he outgrew all of them.

[Wolfmeis]

Originally Posted by Gale Force

No one has suggested that moms or children should be exposed to allergens. Given that, it is unclear why it would be so "dangerous" to recommend a healthy diet to pregnant moms or their children under any circumstances. What is your understanding of allergies that suggests that a nutrient-dense diet would be dangerous?

You only quoted a small part of what I wrote. I never said at all that nutrient dense diet was dangerous. I said it WOULD help, that it would help a lot of things. That is has helped MY FAMILY.

My concern is the assumption that a healthy diet will automatically cure those allergies. That's all. That those of us new to this board because of recently diagnosed anaphlyactic allergies will take this too far in assumptions: Healthy diet = Healthy child = oh look he's all better

Plummeting reminds me that this discussion is about preventing allergies, a point which I glossed over. So I will shut up about that. Doing something in utero is certainly better than doing nothing because "oh well it's just gonna happen."

Plummeting also points out that anaphylaxis and early allergic responses are not the same thing. This is true. Peanuts and shellfish are the marked exceptions to this. I'll be frank with you guys, this is what we are doing to G to try to help her outgrow the peanut allergy. We get slack occasionally and she'll get junk food, but 95 percent of the time, it's organic produce, yogurts, home made everything. She is very healthy, growing like a weed and has no eczema or allergic shiners.

Yet last year she tested positive again to peanuts, going from a class 1 allergy to a class 4 (out of 5, on the RAST). She also tested positive to shrimp, for the first tim ever. That had never been an issue before. I felt like I'd been punched in the gut.

Originally Posted by Wolfmeis

My kids don't eat the mainstream, white flour, corn syrup nastified American diet. We are all getting healthier and healthier, that is true. But it hasn't lessoned my daughter's allergies. ....

Again, I am not disagreeing with the idea that what you are putting out there is healthy or a good way to be. I agree with you that nutrition is insanely important.... cutting out refined sugars and carbohydrates got rid of my rhinitis, for instance. .....

[Gale Force]

Originally Posted by Wolfmeis

You only quoted a small part of what I wrote. I never said at all that nutrient dense diet was dangerous. I said it WOULD help, that it would help a lot of things. That is has helped MY FAMILY.

And you said that the advice offered by JaneS could cause a mom to "seriously harm her child."

Originally Posted by Wolfmeis

My concern is the assumption that a healthy diet will automatically cure those allergies. That's all. That those of us new to this board because of recently diagnosed anaphlyactic allergies will take this too far in assumptions: Healthy diet = Healthy child = oh look he's all better

Well, healthy diet does not equal healthy child and I think that message is very clear in this thread with the discussion of dysbiosis. Nothing is that simple.

Plummeting reminds me that this discussion is about preventing allergies, a point which I glossed over.

And no wonder I am so confused because I thought this thread was about preventing allergies. So perhaps this thread should be chopped into one about allergy maintenance and one about prevention.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Plummeting

(and probiotics didn't even exist 25 years ago) .

Thank you for all your most excellent research but a teeny tiny point I want to clarify ... probiotics in their original forms are fermented foods such as yogurt, kefir, sauerkraut, kimchi, kombucha, etc. have been around since the dawn of mankind. Eaten across the globe in many forms to boost immunity and prevent disease.

Back in 1908 Eli Metchnikoff won the Nobel Prize for his work on the immune system and probiotics. And before that Pasteur himself "discovered" the existance of lactobacilli.

The capsules can be good, but are no where near as potent as homemade probiotic foods. For ex. 24 hr. yogurt that I make contains more probiotics than any capsule on the market just in one teaspoon. Of course the strains that are used do make a difference in their function. The traditional yogurt bacteria of l. thermophilus and l. bulgaricus benefits are not as strong as adding acidophilus to the mix for example.

Culturelle, which is a certain strain of Lactobacillus rhamnosus has been well studied but it also doesn't permanently colonize the intestine. It is "helper strain" in that it reduces bad bacteria and elevates other nascent good lactic acid strains in the gut.

Which of course you can try to culture Culturelle yourself at home too to grow even more.

Goodpapa cultured L. Reuteri another strain with tremendous health benefits:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=111

L. Plantarum is another very potent strain with great benefits that have been studied extensively in Scandanivian countries. It's in traditionally made sauerkraut.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Wolfmeis

I'll be frank with you guys, this is what we are doing to G to try to help her outgrow the peanut allergy. We get slack occasionally and she'll get junk food, but 95 percent of the time, it's organic produce, yogurts, home made everything. She is very healthy, growing like a weed and has no eczema or allergic shiners.

Yet last year she tested positive again to peanuts, going from a class 1 allergy to a class 4 (out of 5, on the RAST). She also tested positive to shrimp, for the first tim ever. That had never been an issue before. I felt like I'd been punched in the gut.

The interesting thing about slinging around the term "healthy diet" is that one needs to understand that a diet inclusive of healthy foods still can be deficient in certain key nutrients that effects bodily function.

And that if a person is deficient, the standard amounts of nutrients (ie. the RDA) will never be enough to ultimately overcome those deficiencies (ie. vitamin A, D, minerals).

Much like just giving probiotic capsules or one kind or another automatically means that dysbiosis will be corrected without taking diet and maldigestion into account.

I would suggest a look at the Nutrition/Immunology 101 sticky in Vax forum.

You know what Wolfmeis.. we are all doing the best we can with the limited time and resources we have. And actually I seem to remember a post from you before about being insulted at suggesting that the immune system can be effected by diet or other factors. I'm sorry you are so angry about this and it's too bad you need to lash out at your sister mamas. Obviously you are doing something right if your DD is looking so well, be happy in that.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by wendy1221

My oldest also had multiple food allergies, but he outgrew all of them.

The key to all of this, I think, "he outgrew them." Exactly how did this happen? My guess is that is that his immune system matured and his gut flora swung back to more good bacteria than bad. As the gut flora have a hand in producing the immunoglobulins themselves.

I fear that a diet of "everything free" ... and highly processed food that needs to comes in cases too ... still would be deficient in certain things to support the immune system. Why not just eat fresh foods.

It's not just about taking everything out. I learned that with DS. It's looking at your own gut and what you are digesting or not and how that is effecting your immune system and what you are passing on to your babe. Digestive enzymes would be on my top list for your sister and understanding leaky gut in relation to food "allergies". If the food is broken down properly, by the gut or possibly by supplementation with enzymes, it is not in a form that the body reacts to. (Disclaimer: probably doesn't pertain to ana allergies but would love more knowledge on that front.)

For ex. one of the main reasons why dairy is such a huge allergen is that the primary form of dairy in this country is pasteurized milk, which is so hard to digest b/c the casein molecules are packed tightly together by heat. You don't get that problem with real (raw) milk. Also cow proteins are much larger than human or goat for that matter. My DS can do goat just fine but reacts immediately to cow.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by wendy1221

I had a homebirth with my 3rd (9 mos old) and his is unvaxed, never had antibiotics. He is the one w/ allergies. I also took probiotics the whole time I was pregnant. I am allergic to milk, so I didn't do yogurt/kefir, but I did have soy yogurt once in a while. THe probiotics were daily. He is allergic to milk, eggs, soy, peanuts, tree nuts, wheat, and shellfish.

I really hate to make you a target but this is another point that is interesting to me b/c I've seen this before. The oldest is better off. Disorders connected with nutritional deficiencies in the mother have been shown to get progressively worse with each successive child.

Must run now, but if anyone else has further references for this I'd love to see them. The only reading I've done on that front is Weston Price's extraordinary book, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration.

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by JaneS

Thank you for all your most excellent research but a teeny tiny point I want to clarify ... probiotics in their original forms are fermented foods such as yogurt, kefir, sauerkraut, kimchi, kombucha, etc. have been around since the dawn of mankind. Eaten across the globe in many forms to boost immunity and prevent disease.

Of course, you're absolutely right. The problem is that, until recently, fermented foods were not a staple of the American diet. Americans didn't eat much yogurt, probably no kefir, and very few real fermented foods of any sort. So, for all intents and purposes, probiotics did not exist in the American diet - even in what was considered a "healthy" diet. (I know you know that, but I wanted to clarify what I was saying.)

I know GG doesn't permanently colonize the gut, but I still think it's pretty essential. We actually use 3 different probiotics, 2 of which have multiple bacteria. Plus, we eat yogurt and homemade kefir, although no fermented veggies. I wasn't suggesting that people use *only* Culturelle at all. I don't think taking any probiotic that contains only one type of bacteria, without doing anything else to correct gut flora is going to help anyone. Hell, I don't even think taking only one type of probiotic that contains several different bacteria is enough. Sorry - should've been more clear on that.

[Plummeting]

You know, Wolfmeis, I was thinking about how you were probably feeling, when you said some posts were "insulting". I actually know exactly how you feel, and poor JaneS, it was her posts that offended me, too, in the dental forum. That was a while back, and I've realized since then that I was only offended because I didn't like what she was saying. I've also realized that she doesn't usually post unless she has a lot of knowledge on a subject. I'm not saying I always agree with everything she says, because I don't (what 2 people agree on everything, anyway?), but I always listen, because she always has useful information. And I feel bad that people like the two of us get upset at her, when she's really, really, really trying to help, kwim?

[wendy1221]

Originally Posted by JaneS

I really hate to make you a target but this is another point that is interesting to me b/c I've seen this before. The oldest is better off. Disorders connected with nutritional deficiencies in the mother have been shown to get progressively worse with each successive child.

Must run now, but if anyone else has further references for this I'd love to see them. The only reading I've done on that front is Weston Price's extraordinary book, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration.

Hmmmm.. my 2nd child never had any issues whatsoever. Still doesn't. He is also still nursing.

ANd while Weston Price had some intersting theories that make sense, that doesn't mean he's 100% right on everything he talked about.

[wendy1221]

ANd also, the baby is already outgrowing his allergies. He is only 9 mos old and 90%bf.

[wendy1221]

Originally Posted by JaneS

The key to all of this, I think, "he outgrew them." Exactly how did this happen? My guess is that is that his immune system matured and his gut flora swung back to more good bacteria than bad. As the gut flora have a hand in producing the immunoglobulins themselves.

I fear that a diet of "everything free" ... and highly processed food that needs to comes in cases too ... still would be deficient in certain things to support the immune system. Why not just eat fresh foods.

It's not just about taking everything out. I learned that with DS. It's looking at your own gut and what you are digesting or not and how that is effecting your immune system and what you are passing on to your babe. Digestive enzymes would be on my top list for your sister and understanding leaky gut in relation to food "allergies". If the food is broken down properly, by the gut or possibly by supplementation with enzymes, it is not in a form that the body reacts to. (Disclaimer: probably doesn't pertain to ana allergies but would love more knowledge on that front.)

For ex. one of the main reasons why dairy is such a huge allergen is that the primary form of dairy in this country is pasteurized milk, which is so hard to digest b/c the casein molecules are packed tightly together by heat. You don't get that problem with real (raw) milk. Also cow proteins are much larger than human or goat for that matter. My DS can do goat just fine but reacts immediately to cow.

We drank raw milk as children. We lived in PA, not IN where it's illegal. 4 out of 5 of the kids in my family have a dairy allergy, as do both of my parents. Hmmm..... (and when I'm talking about food allergies in my family, they are all REAL allergies, not the intolerances that most people call allergies. We carry epi-pens.)

And I actually agree with most of what you say, I just don't think what you say is the only reason/cure, which is what it seems that you believe by your posts. Gut flora is not the end all be all for allergies..

I eat very little processed foods. I have been trying to talk to my sister about eating more whole foods, but she doesn't listen to me. THe only canned foods I eat are beans (but I mostly make dried) and tropical fruit, no syrup as a treat once in a while. Most of my food is fresh locally grown organic produce. In the winter I buy "fresh" produce at the grocery store, mostly organic. I prefer my veggies raw, so they are either raw or barely cooked. I make everything from scratch, except for some rice cakes and crackers once in a while. I don't even like bread products all that much, so this diet hasn;t been too bad for me. I mainly eat veggies, some organic or free range meat (2-4 times a week, beans the other days) and brown rice only. Or millet, quinoa, etc. I have been taking digestive enzymes for over a month now, and I've been taking probiotics for years.

I don't really consider brown rice flour to be a "processed food." Or garbanzo bean flour. These are the things I am bringing to her in cases. THe choc chips are the only processed food. Maybe it would be better to give up chocolate, but I doubt that will ever happen for either of us.