how not to have an allergic child - Page 4

[JaneS]

That's very good news re: Kolaiah's allergy improvements!
He also had eczema pretty bad too, did he not?

[JaneS]

P.S. if he can tolerate dairy products, it's probably a lactose issue rather than milk protein allergy. As aged cheese and butter have virtually no lactose and yogurt it is greatly reduced (or eliminated if cultured 24hrs). You might want to try raw milk (it has the lactase enzyme) and probiotics to get his system starting to produce lactase on its own.

[Mrs.PhD]

Hi mommies, I am new here and could use some help.

My youngest is allergic to milk and eggs. I did reseach last year when we found the problem (she was a year old and breast feed, no formula but we had started solids.) I had a hard time finding info, but was able to adjust for us. Now I found this site and I am finding all kinds of info I never found before.

I need a course on some new words, gut flora, probioics, (sp?) leaky gut.

She is only breast feeding once a day now, so we are child lead self weaning. Still I want to be able to help her as much as I can. Also I am lactose intollergant (developed it as an adult) and I wonder if probiotic will help me (and her.)

So is there a gut flora for dummies course out there somewhere? I have read this thead and many of the links, but not all. My head is spinning. I need some more simple explainations to get the big picutre.

[Annikate]

Originally Posted by Mrs.PhD

Hi mommies, I am new here and could use some help.

My youngest is allergic to milk and eggs. I did reseach last year when we found the problem (she was a year old and breast feed, no formula but we had started solids.) I had a hard time finding info, but was able to adjust for us. Now I found this site and I am finding all kinds of info I never found before.

I need a course on some new words, gut flora, probioics, (sp?) leaky gut.

She is only breast feeding once a day now, so we are child lead self weaning. Still I want to be able to help her as much as I can. Also I am lactose intollergant (developed it as an adult) and I wonder if probiotic will help me (and her.)

So is there a gut flora for dummies course out there somewhere? I have read this thead and many of the links, but not all. My head is spinning. I need some more simple explainations to get the big picutre.

Read the healing the gut stuff stickied at the top of the health & healing forum. Then join the Healing the Gut Tribe in Health and Healing.
nak right now & would link for you. lmk if you can't find them.
There's also a thread about probiotics called The Power of Probiotics.

[JaneS]

Insider,

I hope you are still around b/c I'm very intrigued by some things you posted elsewhere:

Originally Posted by Insider

The trigger and frequency of allergies in a population are a consequence of environmental factors alone. That's textbook fact. Genes only tell you which subset of humans is more likely to get allergies. They're not even causative.

Originally Posted by Insider

... you can not have an allergy to eggs if your body has never been exposed to egg protein. If anyone thinks that's possible you're just plain mistaken because genes can not encode an allergy, that's not how gene's work. Genes encode proteins which build an immune system of cells and proteins. The interaction of the allergen with the gene products (the immune system) is what causes the allergy. But in the case of the environmental factor i.e. eggs in this case, it is a necessary agent in the causative pathway. Just like my primates vs. humans measles analogy: genes identify the subset of primates which are susceptible to measles disease, but it is the virus which is causative i.e. measles disease does not happen in the absence of the environmental agent (virus). Likewise for allergies. You can't be allergic to eggs if your body has never been in contact with egg protein.

Originally Posted by Insider

If you've ever eaten nuts even years ago, it's still possible for there to be small amounts of nut antigen present in your body that can get into your breastmilk. It goes along with B-cell memory. If you had any sort of immune reaction to nuts at any point in your life (maybe you didn't even notice it) then your body can retain antigen as a source for priming B cell memory. If the antigen is in your body it can possibly find it's way into breastmilk. This could also explain why you might see allergies run in families. It doesn't have to be genetic or genetic predispositions. Once a reaction happens in one female she can pass on that antigen to her offspring through her breastmilk. That's definitely not a reason to give up on breastmilk, I'm just pointing out how the children can get exposed to the antigen even though you've done everything humanly possible to keep it away from them.

Because I had considered going dairy free if I want to get pg again. And that would just about kill me since I'm so reliant on my raw milk yogurt/kefir these days to keep my gut in shape.

My questions:

How necessary do you think it is to avoid the top 8 allergens during pg/bf if you want to avoid having an allergic child?

Anything else you would add to the discussion as far as what, and what not, to do to prime the immune system?

Everyone

[insider]

I just typed a long response complete with links and then erased it when I went to copy it. I'll stop back later and offer an abbreviated response.

[insider]

How necessary do you think it is to avoid the top 8 allergens during pg/bf if you want to avoid having an allergic child?

First off, I have no expertise and no experience so my opinion is nothing special. To answer your question without equivocation I have to say straight out: I don't know. I think it's possible to minimize your probabilities of having an allergic child but that it's statistically impossible for everyone to prevent their children having allergic diseases. Since superficially the allergy manifests during the interaction of the allergen and the child's immune system, whatever allergens you could avoid (if you could avoid them) would at the very least delay (and possibly prevent) the allergy. But the research seems pretty clear that the allergic phenotype can be determined in the absence of allergens before birth (in some percentage of people). That doesn't mean those allergies are genetically determined. The allergic phenotype is actually set by environmental factors acting on gene expression. A lot of those factors are ubiquitous and so they can be minimized but not controlled. Cortisol is one example: everbody has it, but in some people it affects (favors) certain gene expression that leads to an allergic phenotype. Basically the child's immune system is primed to react differently to certain immunostimulatory proteins. No matter how low your level of stress you still have cortisol in your body so there's no way to guarantee you can avoid the allergic phenotype. That's why I'm guessing you can approach prevention from both ends by minimizing your probabilities, but in the end it can (does) happen despite Herculean efforts. JMO

Anything else you would add to the discussion as far as what, and what not, to do to prime the immune system?

I don't know. I've always been interested in more tangential stuff. I started looking at allergic diseases because of aluminum adjuvants. But that's a topic for another thread.

[wendy1221]

EXACTLY, Insider. So avoiding the top 8, or even just a few things, like say milk, may delay or prevent your child from being allergic to that food, BUT if you eat a lot of another food to make up for the foods you're not eating, then your child is more likely to be allergic to that food b/c of repeated exposure. But since the typical American diet is made up of mainly the top 8 food allergens, at least your child would be less likely to be allergic to those if you avoid them. Maybe. (it's the maybe that gets you.)

And like I've said in other posts, I avoided egg while pregnant, etc, w/ ds3 and his egg allergy came back as his worst in testing. And egg allergy definitely runs in my family. All 4 of my siblings plus myself have an egg allergy. As do both of my parents. So are specific allergies inherited, despite studies saying tendency to allergy is inherited, not allergies themselves? Or were we somehow "made" allergic b/c my mom was? (Which is my theory. Histamine definitely crosses into the placenta and definitely goes into breastmilk. My ds is very sensitive to histamine to the point where I will eat something that I think is "safe" but it has dairy contam. For instance, I use my older son's spoon that touched milk--he hates the chunks of cream in non-homogenized milk--to stir my honey into my tea. I don't notice any reaction whatsoever, but ds will full out have an allergic reaction, and he is not even allergic to dairy! This is why I think it is important to TOTALLY avoid your own allergens while pg/nursing.) My older 2 boys have no allergies, btw.

[Plummeting]

Wendy, that is soooo interesting, because I've noticed that DD actually reacts more strongly to dairy if I eat it than if she eats it. (We are both intolerant, neither allergic.) The allergist said this was completely impossible, but I know for a fact that it's true. She is one of the kids that can tolerate certain raw cheeses, but if I eat them, they make her sick. It's so bizarre.

[insider]

Originally Posted by wendy1221

So are specific allergies inherited, despite studies saying tendency to allergy is inherited, not allergies themselves? Or were we somehow "made" allergic b/c my mom was?

It's maybe just semantics. Allergies can run in families without being inherited. Inherited in it's strict genetic sense means present and determined at the moment of conception. It does not include changes in gene expression after conception. A lot of the differences among people are not because they have different genes but because they have differential expression of the same gene. Anything that affects gene expression that wasn't encoded at conception is technically an environmental factor, even if it's something as simple as your basal stress level.

Allergies do run in families (I know everybody already knows that). But the fact that they run predominantly in the maternal line indicates against a genetic cause and more something along the lines of your latter idea. I've seen a few papers mention some mechanisms by which the allergies run in the maternal line non-genetically. I guess it'd also be good to point out these aren't things that the mother can really avoid or prevent.

ETA: I'm not arguing against the role of genetics in allergies. There are definitely genetic predispositions. But the idea of genetic predispositions is so different from genetic determination that I wish it were a different term altogether, without the word 'genetic' in it, to avoid the confusion (it even confuses geneticists). Genetic predispositions necessitate environmental factors - something has to turn those genes on.

[wendy1221]

Well, my mom inherited her allergies from her dad's side of the family. (And, btw, my dad, myself, and 2 of my siblings were not allergic to eggs as children, but developed it as adults. Coincidence? Doesn't seem likely, but I do find it odd that we would develop it as adults if the actual allergy were somehow passed on.)

I do agree that there has to be more to it than JUST genetics, but I think maybe it is a case of more people than realize it have the genetic predisposition, but something(s) environmental is happening in recent years bringing out that potential WAY more often than in the past.

[HappyToBe]

This is absolutely fascinating. Please bear w/me for a basic (perhaps) question. I just assumed my kids would never have allergies b/c dh & I don't & they have always had a very healthy diet, were bf, etc.

So, how does ds (5 years) develop an allergy to grass & alder & dust mites? Honestly,I don't quite understand it. I feel that b/c I worked while he was under 2 years that may have contributed? He had almost all of his vax on a delayed schedule while he was in a daycare environment? He had ear infections 3x as a baby. I honestly don't understand how it really works.

Ds' allergies manifest through eczema. My dh' family has extremely dry skin--dh probl. would've been dx w/eczema as a kid.

The dr. said "it just happens." Okay, but why did it happen to my kid and not the kid living next door to us w/the same grass & alder pollens that we have?

: Sorry, I know this is a big question. Just searching & trying to figure things out.

[USAmma]

We have a family history of allergies and asthma going back several generations before there was even a name for it. My grandma does geneology and there has been a direct line down to my kids of people who suffered from allergies/asthma and related things. My allergist said my kids had more than 50% chance since dh and I both have allergies, his to a lesser degree. Mine are so severe I was hospitalized at 6 mos old. Not surprisingly both my girls have environmental allergies and one is being tested for food allergies soon.

I honestly don't think there's much you can do beyond a point if your child has inhereted the gene. You can just delay the onset but eventually they will develop allergies and/or asthma.

My allergist actually gave the advice to breastfeed for at least a year. His partner in the pracice was a very naturopathic person who bf her sons for 3-5 years each because of her own severe allergies and asthma. She said within 6 mos of stopping the bfing they developed severe allergies and asthma as well.

The other advice I got from the allergist was while they were young and not showing symptoms, try to expose them to a normal environment, not a sterile, allergy free one. Let them play outside, let them be dusty and be around animals. Let them eat a variety of foods unless you see a bad reaction. I feel like this has lessened the severity of their allergies because although they both get itchy nose and eyes during spring, my oldest is very healthy and my youngest-- well she has some inherited problems but she is about as healthy as can be under the circumstances.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Insider

The allergic phenotype is actually set by environmental factors acting on gene expression.

Do your genes determine whether it's food allergies you are susceptible to or just allergies in general depending on your environment and the state of your immune system?

Edited to say: for example a pp's note that her family's allergies seem to manifest in eczema... that is gene expression but not necessarily same cause?

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by JaneS

Because I had considered going dairy free if I want to get pg again. And that would just about kill me since I'm so reliant on my raw milk yogurt/kefir these days to keep my gut in shape.

My questions:

[B]How necessary do you think it is to avoid the top 8 allergens during pg/bf if you want to avoid having an allergic child?

OK, now I'm confused. I thought if your gut was healed you wouldn't have to worry about having an allergic child because your body would break down the foods properly so they wouldn't react to them in BM (assuming the babe didn't get formula/antibiotics/vaxes/etc to damage their gut).

[SaveTheWild]

subbing.

[insider]

Originally Posted by JaneS

Do your genes determine whether it's food allergies you are susceptible to or just allergies in general depending on your environment and the state of your immune system?

I can't answer that. The research that deals with the allergic phenotype is done by looking at specific allergies. Different research looks at different specific types of allergies - you can't lump them all together to do that type of analysis. Maybe the observations/conclusions from specific allergies can be extrapolated to allergies in general but the research can't establish that. And I have no clue.

But I do know that your genes do not determine allergies. There are genetic predispositions to developing the allergic phenotype and that phenotype can be irreversibly programmed before birth in some cases, but it is not genetically determined. That would mean it alway happens when the gene is present (and on) and always absent when the gene is absent (or off). We're dealing with genetic predispositions: something has to turn them on or cause them to differentially express, and even then they only contribute to the development of an allergic phenotype (by the presence of their gene product). I think maybe some people are using 'genetically determined' and 'biologically programmed' interchangeably and they are not the same thing (even though they seem to be). It may be just a matter of semantics. If I could explain myself better I'd bet that the people who disagree with my definition of genetic determinism would be right on board with what I'm saying. [Hey, I'm usually not this optimisitic.]

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

OK, now I'm confused. I thought if your gut was healed you wouldn't have to worry about having an allergic child because your body would break down the foods properly so they wouldn't react to them in BM (assuming the babe didn't get formula/antibiotics/vaxes/etc to damage their gut).

Yes, and I think the second part of your equation might be more important the first. Meaning, development of their "environment" shall we say, seems to be the etiology of the genes being expressed. Of course whether the mama's "environment" is optimal is a subset of that. And nutritional factors as well.

[JaneS]

So therefore, what I'm thinking now is that one needs to "avoid the top 8" if they are allergic to one or all of them themselves and that prevents them from healing their immune system and passing that "environment" on to their child? Make sense?

[caedmyn]

So you're saying if the mama's gut is totally healthy she shouldn't have to worry about allergens, but if her gut is less than 100% healthy it might be wise to avoid common allergens?

So...are you thinking you are still not totally healed?