how not to have an allergic child - Page 5

[Missy]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

OK, now I'm confused. I thought if your gut was healed you wouldn't have to worry about having an allergic child because your body would break down the foods properly so they wouldn't react to them in BM (assuming the babe didn't get formula/antibiotics/vaxes/etc to damage their gut).

Because intact proteins are still found in breastmilk, because healing the gut does not guarantee an absence of allergies, because there is no "one-size, fits all" solution.

[JaneS]

HappyToBe... this is what I'm wrestling with as well. There is genetics and then there is environment.

Insider is saying the genes do not matter at all unless there is a trigger. Right Insider? I realize we are being a bit slow here ...

I'll give our experience as an example. My DS had to deal with the following assaults on his immune system:

1. I had poor digestion coming off multiple antibx with imbalanced gut flora to pass on
2. I got prophylactic antibx (without consent ) in IV after birth
3. glucose given to him during blood draws after birth
4. formula supplements for several days right after birth b/c he was dehydrated after a very long labor
5. leaky gut mama breastfeeding
6. vit. K and eye antibx after birth
7. I had many mercury amalgam fillings and a root canal that failed in first trimester (root canals always harbor bacteria, regardless of how well they are "cleaned")
8. grains as first food resulted in full body eczema
9. NSAIDS for teething which damages gut

Now #1-5 and maybe #6 all effect whether the gut seals up at birth.

Regarding formula supplements, there are studies showing that any dairy proteins during this vulnerable time can result in dairy allergies in susceptible child.

Would my DS still have been allergic to dairy, have multiple food "intolerances" and dysbiosis had he not had all of those factors? Is the dairy allergy simply b/c he exposed to formula with those whole dairy proteins at the most critical time and his gut wasn't sealed up? I don't know. Thank heaven and the angels at the Vaccinations forum here that he was not vaxed, or I'm sure we'd be dealing with much, much more.

But I do know better now. And if I'm so lucky to have a second, none of those things will happen. My gut has healed, my amalgam fillings are out. And I know to supplement with bifidus after birth to help seal up gut. And I will literally strike down anyone who so much as offers anything other than BM to my babe's lips!!

So given all of these things and superior nutrition from a Traditional Foods diet too, I'm not so sure I have to avoid the "top 8" as the enviroment will be radically different?

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Missy

Because intact proteins are still found in breastmilk

Do you have references for this... because I thought this was just indicative of a problem and not a normal state? There is a US breast milk research team that studies re: how BM proteins are different and broken down... I'll try to find.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

So you're saying if the mama's gut is totally healthy she shouldn't have to worry about allergens, but if her gut is less than 100% healthy it might be wise to avoid common allergens?

So...are you thinking you are still not totally healed?

Not necessarily re: worry about allergens. Hence my post of all the things my DS had to deal with. There are other factors that assault the immune system.

As far as not "being healed" ... well I'm still on digestive enzymes so who knows for sure but I'm pretty much eating anything I want with no issues. Of course, that is relative, I'm sticking with NT foods. I'm just trying to cover all my bases!

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Plummeting

Wendy, that is soooo interesting, because I've noticed that DD actually reacts more strongly to dairy if I eat it than if she eats it. (We are both intolerant, neither allergic.) The allergist said this was completely impossible, but I know for a fact that it's true. She is one of the kids that can tolerate certain raw cheeses, but if I eat them, they make her sick. It's so bizarre.

That IS a funky scenario!

Maybe the histamine issue? Meaning you are the one that's actually allergic?

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by JaneS

Not necessarily re: worry about allergens. Hence my post of all the things my DS had to deal with. There are other factors that assault the immune system.

As far as not "being healed" ... well I'm still on digestive enzymes so who knows for sure but I'm pretty much eating anything I want with no issues. Of course, that is relative, I'm sticking with NT foods. I'm just trying to cover all my bases!

OK, just to make sure I'm understanding you...if the mama's gut is fine AND none of the other factors are introduced, there should be no worry about allergens, correct? That's the only thing that I have to/can change about subsequent babies (healing my gut) as DD had none of those things you listed and still has gut issues.

[Missy]

Beyond extensive conversations with our local allergist and our allergist at Johns Hopkins, I found numerous references. Just a few...http://http://archives.cnn.com/2001/...ood.allergies/
http://http://www.lalecheleague.org/ba/Nov98.html
http://www.aaaai.org/media/news_rele...03/032204a.stm

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Missy

Beyond extensive conversations with our local allergist and our allergist at Johns Hopkins, I found numerous references. Just a few...http://http://archives.cnn.com/2001/...ood.allergies/
http://http://www.lalecheleague.org/ba/Nov98.html
http://www.aaaai.org/media/news_rele...03/032204a.stm

Sorry I really wasn't clear with my question ... those are just telling me that it exists in certain women. I already know that. In my research, I found that this is an abnormal state, as it doesn't occur in ALL women.

Much like early childhood cavities, it's common, but that doesn't mean it's not indicative of a problem.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

OK, just to make sure I'm understanding you...if the mama's gut is fine AND none of the other factors are introduced, there should be no worry about allergens, correct? That's the only thing that I have to/can change about subsequent babies (healing my gut) as DD had none of those things you listed and still has gut issues.

Yes, that is my educated opinion.

[Missy]

Okay, I understand what you're saying now, but, since the (still limited)studies have shown it occurring in appr. 50% of women, until we have more information, it's best to assume that proteins do pass via breastmilk, especially when there is a history of allergies and/or asthma. Obviously, we should still make every effort to maintain a healthy gut while eliminating foods as needed.

[Wolfmeis]

:

Originally Posted by JaneS

Yes, that is my educated opinion.

But you'd have to live in a bubble for none of the other factors to be introduced. Literally. Having a pregnancy and a toddlerhood without encountering any of the big 8 would be a Herculean task, especially if you want to consider skin absorption (a factor for us). The genes can get turned on sometimes just by living this life.

After weeks of this I think I see where you are going with it, Jane.... you desperately want not to have another baby with an infancy like this one, riddled with eczema and allergy issues. (I HATE what happened to you guys in the hospital at his birth. That's awful.) There is not a doubt in my mind that your next child will be able to benefit from all that you have learned, and that whatever happens, his / her issues would be greatly reduced, not an amplification of what you have already experienced. I know from prior posts of yours that you think the susequent children get the short end of the stick as it were, but I don't think that has to be true.

My own children are actually good examples of how that can happen.... the first, I did everything right according to the medical community, but I still got a child allergic to 13 different foods, most of which caused serious reactions ranging from painful poop to anaphylaxis. After that experience, I wanted not to have an allergic child again.

Given G's issues we switched to whole foods (albeit gradually), became consistent with our supplements, bumped the nutrition, bumped the yogurts and things like that. Nicholas, I allowed to wean when he wanted to (after more than 2 years), and while he did have bad reactions to egg and corn(intro'd after a year), he has outgrown the issues he had with egg, corn and doesn't at all react to milk, to which he RAST tests positive. His eczema was almost wholly seasonal allergy related, and he hasn't had one patch since we left SC.

With number three, we've gone even further with the dietary train: always whole foods unless we're not at home, organic veggies, no hormones or abx in our milk and eggs, more yogurts than ever, etc etc etc. I'd never had a baby before this one who didn't have permanent red creases. Even now after 19 months, I catch myself caressing his ankles and elbows, feeling for the patches that need attention.

All three have the same parents. You can watch their similar genetic makeups in action by watching them grow and laugh; how similar they look and move. How their teeth come in, how they sleep. Yet with every child it's been better and better.

[wenat]

Well, here's my correlation with my son's RAST allergy test scores.

Peanuts -- I avoided them
He RAST tested at >100 -- the scale is 0-100, so he's over the maximum score

Almonds -- I ate a lot of almond butter instead of peanut butter in pregnancy
He RAST tested at 0

Cashews -- I ate cashews and cashew butter too
He threw up the half a cashew that I fed to him. We'll probably RAST test him for those next year.

Milk -- I drank TONS of milk while pregnant
He RAST tested at 70

Eggs -- ate them through pregnancy and BF'ing
He RAST tested at 7, which is marginal anaphylaxis

Cats -- I developed a cat allergy a year before I got pregnant, when a friend and her cats moved in with us for a year
He starts sneezing and gets wheezy after 10 minutes in a room where a cat has been. (And don't tell me that cat allergies are cured by healing the gut!)

Dustmites and mold -- he skin tested positive for those.
I've also skin tested positive for dustmites and mold.

I think that some of his allergies stem from my major allergic reactions to living with cats while I was pregnant with him. I was even diagnosed with asthma at the time, but I only get wheezy when exposed to cats. (One of my brothers is also horribly allergic to cats.)

Also, there are no food allergies in my family, but lots in DH's family. His mom and sister are allergic to eggs and I swear DH must have been allergic to dairy -- he was colicky as a baby, and formula-fed -- and he's still very sensitive to dairy if he eats more than a small serving (gets ferocious gas that sends people out of the room!).

So I do think there's a genetic predisposition to allergies. Plus I want to point out that blaming the mother for her leaky gut just adds another burden onto the shoulders of moms who already feel horribly guilty and responsible for their children's lives and problems.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Wolfmeis

But you'd have to live in a bubble for none of the other factors to be introduced. Literally. Having a pregnancy and a toddlerhood without encountering any of the big 8 would be a Herculean task, especially if you want to consider skin absorption (a factor for us). The genes can get turned on sometimes just by living this life.

I don't understand what you are saying here... :

I don't think the answer is avoiding the top 8 allergens. I think that "turning on genes" is nothing more than having a deficient immune system that is responding to environmental stressors.

Originally Posted by Wolfmeis

After weeks of this I think I see where you are going with it, Jane.... you desperately want not to have another baby with an infancy like this one, riddled with eczema and allergy issues. (I HATE what happened to you guys in the hospital at his birth. That's awful.) There is not a doubt in my mind that your next child will be able to benefit from all that you have learned, and that whatever happens, his / her issues would be greatly reduced, not an amplification of what you have already experienced. I know from prior posts of yours that you think the susequent children get the short end of the stick as it were, but I don't think that has to be true.

Subsquent children have been shown to suffer in terms of nutritional deficiencies in the mother. Since my nutrition is way way better now, on a Nourishing Traditions diet. Especially high vit. A, which increases IgA that I just found out. I'm not at all concerned about that.

But yes, why I'm here and discussing it is to prevent this again (if I'm so lucky as to have a second). There is no doubt in my mind what were the primary causes of DS's issues on all fronts, regardless of genetics. And our medical history that I laid out certainly speaks volumes. Not many mamas know about these issues in these terms and exactly what they risk.

Originally Posted by Wolfmeis

My own children are actually good examples of how that can happen.... the first, I did everything right according to the medical community, but I still got a child allergic to 13 different foods, most of which caused serious reactions ranging from painful poop to anaphylaxis. After that experience, I wanted not to have an allergic child again.

And that is exactly why I won't listen to mainstream medical advice ever again. Because the assault on the immune system comes from every direction. And the complete ignorance of nutritional causes of illness and the normal development of the infant's immune system is staggering.

Originally Posted by Wolfmeis

All three have the same parents. You can watch their similar genetic makeups in action by watching them grow and laugh; how similar they look and move. How their teeth come in, how they sleep. Yet with every child it's been better and better.

That's very hopeful! Thank you for sharing.

While I did some things right with DS (not vaxing), I did many, many other things wrong b/c I was just not educated. My eyes are open and I'm trying to learn and share what I know.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Missy

Okay, I understand what you're saying now, but, since the (still limited)studies have shown it occurring in appr. 50% of women, until we have more information, it's best to assume that proteins do pass via breastmilk, especially when there is a history of allergies and/or asthma. Obviously, we should still make every effort to maintain a healthy gut while eliminating foods as needed.

And of course to me that begs the question as to whether an infant with a virgin gut (BF only, no vax and no antibx) will be better equipped to handle BM with milk proteins. Atopic or not. There is just so little that is known about the infant's immune system and how it develops.

[Gale Force]

Originally Posted by wenat

So I do think there's a genetic predisposition to allergies. Plus I want to point out that blaming the mother for her leaky gut just adds another burden onto the shoulders of moms who already feel horribly guilty and responsible for their children's lives and problems.

The whole point of this thread is to discuss prevention. One of the biggest factors moms can influence is their own health. You cannot change the world and all of its toxins to prevent allergies in your own children, you cannot change the genes that a child is going to inherit unless you choose another partner, but you can work on your own body. Everyone mom will feel guilt at many times in her life for decisions she made in regards to her children. The key is to work past the guilt and make changes for the better, whatever that means in each person's case.

[HappyToBe]

Originally Posted by JaneS

While I did some things right with DS (not vaxing), I did many, many other things wrong b/c I was just not educated. My eyes are open and I'm trying to learn and share what I know.

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by Gale Force

The whole point of this thread is to discuss prevention. One of the biggest factors moms can influence is their own health. You cannot change the world and all of its toxins to prevent allergies in your own children, you cannot change the genes that a child is going to inherit unless you choose another partner, but you can work on your own body. Everyone mom will feel guilt at many times in her life for decisions she made in regards to her children. The key is to work past the guilt and make changes for the better, whatever that means in each person's case.

It isn't about guilt, wenat. No one wants to make anyone else feel guilty,
but fear of upsetting someone is no reason to keep valuable information to yourself. I think most moms learn about this issue the hard way. For me, it wasn't serious allergies, but serious tooth decay in my DD. I argued back and forth with Jane about this. I used the *same* argument for genetics as a cause that has been used in this thread. Then I actually started looking into the issue genetics. Oops. Turns out genes aren't all that important after all, unless you're talking about a heritable genetic disease like cystic fibrosis, sickle cell anemia, etc. Things like having terrible teeth or terrible allergies might run in families, but they aren't genetically inherited. There literally must be other factors to cause them. Informing others of what those factors include and how to change them is the right thing to do.

I used to get angry at JaneS, too. I used to tell her that her message was hurtful and offensive, because our children's problems were out of our control - the SAME things said in this forum. Eventually, I came to realize that I was wrong. I realized this by discussing it with an actual researcher in the field and reading information on genetics and epigenetics. It wasn't an easy sell, but eventually I did have to eat crow. Do I agree that nutrition will prevent all cases of allergies and tooth decay? No, so I guess that's where my views differ from Jane's. However, I do believe that a majority of them would be prevented with proper nutrition and a healthy gut.

As mothers, it's our job to do everything we can to make our children healthy, even if it does mean we sometimes have to admit our mistakes and make changes. No one's perfect and no one expects anyone to be, so it's really nothing anyone's trying to make anyone else feel guilty about.

[Wolfmeis]

Originally Posted by Plummeting

Do I agree that nutrition will prevent all cases of allergies and tooth decay? No, so I guess that's where my views differ from Jane's. However, I do believe that a majority of them would be prevented with proper nutrition and a healthy gut.

As mothers, it's our job to do everything we can to make our children healthy, even if it does mean we sometimes have to admit our mistakes and make changes. No one's perfect and no one expects anyone to be, so it's really nothing anyone's trying to make anyone else feel guilty about.

Holy God in Heavens, hold down the plates.

I have to : Plummeting!

[nikirj]

Jane, I don't get this

I don't think the answer is avoiding the top 8 allergens. I think that "turning on genes" is nothing more than having a deficient immune system that is responding to environmental stressors.

The immune system is supposed to respond to environmental stressors, and it can take a while...we'd never get sick otherwise. You absorb things many ways; through the skin, through the mucous membranes in the nose and mouth and anywhere else, injestion, inhalation...and your immune system must deal with them.

The immune system of an infant is by definition immature, and so the capability to react 'incorrectly' to any given potential allergen is enhanced. Thus those who know their children have, genetically, the potential to react in the worst possible way, may try to avoid the interaction in the first place...and research is on their side.

[Wolfmeis]

Niki explained my comment very nicely. Thanks!

My bubble comment is in reference to not exposing the child to anything. You can't do that. You simply can't. Just going out the the door on her first trip outside exposes the baby to potential allergens.

You can / are going to try your best to make sure your child's immune system doesn't go wonky and mistake common substances for deadly pathogens, which is what you're talking about but one of the things you can do to help that immune system not make that mistake is to not expose is to the harshest common substances. Some people choose the big 8 to avoid. My allergist suggested avoiding eggs, shellfish, peanuts and nuts. We did, and were comfortable with that.