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A Woman took DS out of his carseat - Page 7

post #121 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
In American society it's 'only look out for yourself and everyone else be damned' attitude.
I don't know -- I know what you mean, but the last several posts have been by people who seem to get offended when they perceive that a stranger is looking out for their child. It seems like some people spend an awful lot of time deciding what the people around them are thinking and then getting all defensive about it -- this seems to be a rather common theme around here.

Unfortunately, people *do* make bad parenting decisions all the time, and if someone gives an extra glance to see if a mama is strapping her DC in the carseat or if a baby is unattended in a car, what's the big deal? Wouldn't you be glad if they did that in a case in which something was wrong and they saved a life? It's hard to live as a "village" when what may simply be well-intentioned glances are interpreted as interfering/rude/judgemental/etc.
post #122 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by limabean
I don't know -- I know what you mean, but the last several posts have been by people who seem to get offended when they perceive that a stranger is looking out for their child. It seems like some people spend an awful lot of time deciding what the people around them are thinking and then getting all defensive about it -- this seems to be a rather common theme around here.

Unfortunately, people *do* make bad parenting decisions all the time, and if someone gives an extra glance to see if a mama is strapping her DC in the carseat or if a baby is unattended in a car, what's the big deal? Wouldn't you be glad if they did that in a case in which something was wrong and they saved a life? It's hard to live as a "village" when what may simply be well-intentioned glances are interpreted as interfering/rude/judgemental/etc.
Oh come on. You can downplay this by pretending we're sitting around getting "offended" and "defensive" and spending too much time contemplating "glances" by people. But people judging mothers harshly in society IS a pretty common theme around here, b/c it's a very real issue. I think it's possible to point that out AND acknowledge that this was a bad parenting decision. It is a big deal to me, b/c I work very hard to be a good mother in a sexist society with a social policy that reflects its lack of respect for mothers. I don't need people breathing down my neck to check on me, which is a world of difference from people truly looking out for kids.
post #123 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
In American society it's 'only look out for yourself and everyone else be damned' attitude. Very disturbing to myself.
That's an extremely offensive generalization.
post #124 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazelnut
Oh come on. You can downplay this by pretending we're sitting around getting "offended" and "defensive" and spending too much time contemplating "glances" by people. But people judging mothers harshly in society IS a pretty common theme around here, b/c it's a very real issue. I think it's possible to point that out AND acknowledge that this was a bad parenting decision. It is a big deal to me, b/c I work very hard to be a good mother in a sexist society with a social policy that reflects its lack of respect for mothers. I don't need people breathing down my neck to check on me, which is a world of difference from people truly looking out for kids.
You know what, you're right and I apologize. My frustration about several different comments in various threads came out in this one post, and that's not fair to the posters in this thread. It seems like lately I've been reading a lot of "I wish people would be more empathetic/helpful" posts along with a lot of "Why can't people mind their own business" posts. I know that those two are naturally going to co-exist; I guess my cynical side just got frustrated and had to say, "Geez, I guess we can't win! Bystanders are lambasted whether they do nothing (insensitive) or get involved (judgemental)."

In any case, my reaction wasn't in proportion to the posts in this particular thread, so I do apologize.
post #125 of 171
okay, thanks. I do want people to interfere if the situation requires it. And actually, I kind of think Mama in the Boonies has a point. I just think that the "village" doesn't really show up at all, unless it's to tell women they don't know what they're doing. That's a bit off-topic, but I thought it applies here, beause the op's creditibility was challenged, and without absolute knowledge about the temp/time, the woman who took the child also makes me wonder.
post #126 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazelnut
Oh come on. You can downplay this by pretending we're sitting around getting "offended" and "defensive" and spending too much time contemplating "glances" by people. But people judging mothers harshly in society IS a pretty common theme around here, b/c it's a very real issue. I think it's possible to point that out AND acknowledge that this was a bad parenting decision. It is a big deal to me, b/c I work very hard to be a good mother in a sexist society with a social policy that reflects its lack of respect for mothers. I don't need people breathing down my neck to check on me, which is a world of difference from people truly looking out for kids.
post #127 of 171

but I digress

(that word doesn't look right at all....)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazelnut
I just think that the "village" doesn't really show up at all, unless it's to tell women they don't know what they're doing.
True.

Since I was one of the posters before the post about being defensive came up, I figure my post fell into that perceived category.

What I'm annoyed at is that these people are INSTANTLY thinking that something weird is happening. Their facial expressions are ABSOLUTELY suspicious. They do not seem to be giving the benefit of the doubt at all. There is no need for someone to be prowling around, hand at forehead to peer at a carseat, when all you have to do is glance towards the back window and you'll see my husband's big ol' head next to the seat.

I spend very little time assigning things to other people, I just think about it at the time and then in posts like this. Not much effort at all.

Now today I could have USED a village, but instead I got two 4/5 year old girls calling my 2 year old "bratty", because he picked up (and handed back, I must add) two balls they dropped down the stairs at the kid's museum. Guess he wasn't supposed to pick 'em up for them, even though they were at his feet?


tangent over.
post #128 of 171
Over the course of the last several days I have read all 127 posts in this thread. As I read the op I was in tears and my stomach was lurching. I mean HOW AWFUL. I just couldn't even imagine how I'd react if this happened to me. But I couldn't post. Something just doesn't sit right with me and I didn't want to be negative towards a mama who was brave in sharing her story. I am typically of the mindset of "If ya don't have something nice to say "

But I just can't put it to rest in my head. I go over this senario throughout the day and I'm just baffled. She says she was 6-10 feet from the car. Think about that. If your 6 foot tall husband laid down on the floor and you sat at his feet, and he raised his hands above his head HE'D BE ABLE TO TOUCH THE CAR. Pull out a tape measure and scroll out 10 feet. Look at it. And now ask yourself, how can 3 people (mom dad and daughter...no, I'm not blaming daughter) NOT SEE someone walk around the car, stand there, open the door, take baby out, stand there again, shut the door and then walk away? I mean, how is that possible that all this could conspire without someone of the 3 saying something. I know that if ds4 saw someone at our car, he'd sure as heck speak up. I just don't get it.

I'm not saying this didn't happen, and I'm not saying op is a terrible mother. But I am saying that her story just doesn't hold water. I think that perhaps out of stress and mis-memory or in order to seem more sympathetic, (I truly hope this isn't the case) the details have been changed. I just think that there is more to this story that meets the eye. And while I want to be supportive of her, I'm also wondering what really happened.
post #129 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigama
Over the course of the last several days I have read all 127 posts in this thread. As I read the op I was in tears and my stomach was lurching. I mean HOW AWFUL. I just couldn't even imagine how I'd react if this happened to me. But I couldn't post. Something just doesn't sit right with me and I didn't want to be negative towards a mama who was brave in sharing her story. I am typically of the mindset of "If ya don't have something nice to say "

But I just can't put it to rest in my head. I go over this senario throughout the day and I'm just baffled. She says she was 6-10 feet from the car. Think about that. If your 6 foot tall husband laid down on the floor and you sat at his feet, and he raised his hands above his head HE'D BE ABLE TO TOUCH THE CAR. Pull out a tape measure and scroll out 10 feet. Look at it. And now ask yourself, how can 3 people (mom dad and daughter...no, I'm not blaming daughter) NOT SEE someone walk around the car, stand there, open the door, take baby out, stand there again, shut the door and then walk away? I mean, how is that possible that all this could conspire without someone of the 3 saying something. I know that if ds4 saw someone at our car, he'd sure as heck speak up. I just don't get it.

I'm not saying this didn't happen, and I'm not saying op is a terrible mother. But I am saying that her story just doesn't hold water. I think that perhaps out of stress and mis-memory or in order to seem more sympathetic, (I truly hope this isn't the case) the details have been changed. I just think that there is more to this story that meets the eye. And while I want to be supportive of her, but I also am wondering what really happened.
I had the exact same reaction upon reading the OP. People's memories are extremely fallible, especially in emotionally charged situations. I think it's likely that the OP was somewhat farther away from the car than she (now) remembers, and probably was somewhat *more* involved in whatever she was doing - she was probably *not* looking back at the car as often as she thinks. Otherwise, I don't see how the scenario is possible.

It's a real cautionary tale, at any rate.
post #130 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
I know my kids are safe because it is taught from birth that EVERY adult is responsible for EVERY child, even if they are not parents themselves.
This made me soooo sad to read. Our society is so f-ed up. What a great way to be, it's such a pity mainstream America isn't more like this.
post #131 of 171
maybe if her 6 ft tall dh HAD laid in the road w/ his arms outstreached, one of them might have noticed someone getting their kid out and taking him inside.
Or maybe they would have been oblivious to that as well
Amanda
post #132 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigama
Over the course of the last several days I have read all 127 posts in this thread. As I read the op I was in tears and my stomach was lurching. I mean HOW AWFUL. I just couldn't even imagine how I'd react if this happened to me. But I couldn't post. Something just doesn't sit right with me and I didn't want to be negative towards a mama who was brave in sharing her story. I am typically of the mindset of "If ya don't have something nice to say "

But I just can't put it to rest in my head. I go over this senario throughout the day and I'm just baffled. She says she was 6-10 feet from the car. Think about that. If your 6 foot tall husband laid down on the floor and you sat at his feet, and he raised his hands above his head HE'D BE ABLE TO TOUCH THE CAR. Pull out a tape measure and scroll out 10 feet. Look at it. And now ask yourself, how can 3 people (mom dad and daughter...no, I'm not blaming daughter) NOT SEE someone walk around the car, stand there, open the door, take baby out, stand there again, shut the door and then walk away? I mean, how is that possible that all this could conspire without someone of the 3 saying something. I know that if ds4 saw someone at our car, he'd sure as heck speak up. I just don't get it.

I'm not saying this didn't happen, and I'm not saying op is a terrible mother. But I am saying that her story just doesn't hold water. I think that perhaps out of stress and mis-memory or in order to seem more sympathetic, (I truly hope this isn't the case) the details have been changed. I just think that there is more to this story that meets the eye. And while I want to be supportive of her, I'm also wondering what really happened.
Actually she said "about 6 feet" obviously that was off base. She just did not think about how close that would be.

Obviously things did not transpire in the same way and time the OP says. She was probably much further away (about 2-3 times as far) and that phone call from her sister must have been where things went wrong. Rather than a few seconds, as she portrays it, it was obvioulys quite a few minutes in which she was paying absolutely no attention to her baby in that car.
post #133 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by maya44
Obviously things did not transpire in the same way and time the OP says. She was probably much further away (about 2-3 times as far) and that phone call from her sister must have been where things went wrong. Rather than a few seconds, as she portrays it, it was obvioulys quite a few minutes in which she was paying absolutely no attention to her baby in that car.
...and neither was her husband, which is the part that really sends me around the bend. She's on the freaking phone, and he can't even look? Why is it her job? I more than understand how easy it is to get wrapped up in the needs of one of the kids, to the expense of the other child, for a few minutes. I understand how easy it is to get absorbed in a phone call. But, why on earth was the other parent not paying any attention??
post #134 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride
...and neither was her husband, which is the part that really sends me around the bend. She's on the freaking phone, and he can't even look? Why is it her job? I more than understand how easy it is to get wrapped up in the needs of one of the kids, to the expense of the other child, for a few minutes. I understand how easy it is to get absorbed in a phone call. But, why on earth was the other parent not paying any attention??
Yes, this is a good point that has not been brought up often enough.
post #135 of 171
Like I said earlier the OP and her dh need to sit down and talk about how to have each other's backs during times like this (and always, but especially during times like this) - how to ensure that they both don't assume the other one is paying attention when neither of them actually is. Experts call this "diffusion of responsibility" and it's actually a real threat to your kids when out and about or doing something beyond your normal routine.
post #136 of 171
I must say, sometimes things can happen in the blink of an eye. Yeah, there were some roadblocks in the way for the woman who took the baby, like opening the door without being seen, and unstrapping the child. It really depends on the individual and the seat. I've been known to unlatch a carseat in seconds, to the amazement of my ex husband and friends.

Just because a person is RIGHT THERE doesn't mean the child is safe.

Yes, the woman had the child's best interest in heart. She was a bit overzealous, true that, but she wasn't out to do the child harm.

There are people out there who intend on doing children harm.

Twenty seconds. I turned around for 20 seconds. In the time it took for my friend to call my name, and say "I have some things I want to drop off at your house. Will you be home this afternoon?" and me to respond "I should be," and turn back around, my child was GONE. Go ahead. Speak those sentences out loud. THAT'S HOW LONG IT TOOK FOR MY CHILD TO BE ABDUCTED. There were a lot of people present, and they all knew the man and myself. Nobody, except another child, noticed when my child was dragged off. Thankfully we found my daughter untouched within a couple minutes, with the man trying to hide because he knew he was busted. He ended up serving two years in jail.

I'm not going to assume others are watching my children. I'm not going to rely on the village to raise MY children, because inevitably there's a village idiot (aka predator).
post #137 of 171
I agree about the dh. I feel like my dh takes me as the "default" parent too much for granted. If I get distracted when we are both present with ds, I don't think for a second dh will intuitively take over -I always have to make it a point to ask for his help, and even then he seems too easily distracted on his watch, IMO. It is frustrating.
post #138 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_work_in_progress
Twenty seconds. I turned around for 20 seconds. In the time it took for my friend to call my name, and say "I have some things I want to drop off at your house. Will you be home this afternoon?" and me to respond "I should be," and turn back around, my child was GONE. Go ahead. Speak those sentences out loud. THAT'S HOW LONG IT TOOK FOR MY CHILD TO BE ABDUCTED. There were a lot of people present, and they all knew the man and myself. Nobody, except another child, noticed when my child was dragged off. Thankfully we found my daughter untouched within a couple minutes, with the man trying to hide because he knew he was busted. He ended up serving two years in jail.

I'm not going to assume others are watching my children. I'm not going to rely on the village to raise MY children, because inevitably there's a village idiot (aka predator).
Oh my goodness, what a horrible story! I am so glad your daughter was okay! How awful that experience must have been for both of you!
post #139 of 171
Wow. I'm so glad she's OK too. How terrible. People call me paranoid (about safety and about people watching me and judging), but it's stories like that that make me so, even though I think these things are unlikely. The unlikely event is just too horrible to contemplate.
post #140 of 171
i feel badly for the OP, who i hope is still reading, although i understand why she wouldnt be posting anymore.

several weeks ago, i had an accident with my baby. he is now almost 6 months old. nothing major and he was fine but i was shaken. my first thought (after knowing my baby was OK) was to post to mdc for support b/c i was all alone. but then i hesitated....b/c well...i have seen too many judgments on MDC lately and was really scared that i didn't get the support i needed but instead would get judged for walking with my baby wrong or something else that i couldn't even think.

do you really think this mama needs to be told what she did was wrong? even if the baby was in no danger, this mama has learned her lesson.
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