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rules my husband found for dating his daughte - Page 12

post #221 of 257
I don't think you're sexist Yoshua- I just wanted to state it outright so people could no longer complain that nobody was called sexist on this thread.
post #222 of 257
Yoshua

I can only hope my daughter will date a boy with father just as sexist as you are.......oh wait you aren't sexist. Well, whatever the description assigned to you I am with you 100%.
post #223 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shonahsmom
So, by this argument, if you maintained and perpetuated stereotypes of all races versus one or two, you wouldn't be racist?


You are racist if you believe your race is above others


you are sexist if you discriminate BASED on sex.


stop trying, you cant compare apples to oranges.


not to mention if you hated 'all races' you would be self loathing..... and thats just not healthy.
post #224 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshua
You are racist if you believe your race is above others


you are sexist if you discriminate BASED on sex.


stop trying, you cant compare apples to oranges.


not to mention if you hated 'all races' you would be self loathing..... and thats just not healthy.
Anyone who's racist at all must be self loathing IMO.

I don't appreciate you telling me to "stop trying." You might not feel that what I have to express is valid, but I do. There is inherent sexism in perpetuating stereotypical gender roles. I acknowledge that as my personal opinion. You have a right to disagree, but plese don't tell me to "stop trying." It's rude and condescending.
post #225 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shonahsmom
Anyone who's racist at all must be self loathing IMO.

I don't appreciate you telling me to "stop trying." You might not feel that what I have to express is valid, but I do. There is inherent sexism in perpetuating stereotypical gender roles. I acknowledge that as my personal opinion. You have a right to disagree, but plese don't tell me to "stop trying." It's rude and condescending.

what you are expressing is taking my statements and attempting to invalidate them. come up with thoughts of your own instead of attacking mine and i will stop telling you to 'stop'

k?

thx!


I havent attacked you in any way shape or form, your veiled attemps, or not so veiled to invalidate what I say is a form of trolling, trying to incite me into an argument. I apologize that it is not working.
post #226 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshua
what you are expressing is taking my statements and attempting to invalidate them. come up with thoughts of your own instead of attacking mine and i will stop telling you to 'stop'

k?

thx!


I havent attacked you in any way shape or form, your veiled attemps, or not so veiled to invalidate what I say is a form of trolling, trying to incite me into an argument. I apologize that it is not working.
I've been an active member here for over two years. I am doing nothing remotely close to "trolling".

I'll leave someone else to take up with you on what has become yet another Yoshua pissing match. Peace.
post #227 of 257
post #228 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shonahsmom
I've been an active member here for over two years. I am doing nothing remotely close to "trolling".

I'll leave someone else to take up with you on what has become yet another Yoshua pissing match. Peace.
deleted due to snarkiness
post #229 of 257
Let me tell you what: my father WAS like this, only it wasn't a joke. He threatened my boyfriend, subtly and un-subtly. He refused permission for many, many things involving boys. He did everything he could short of locking me in my room with a chastity belt on.

Let me tell you something else: I was sexually abused by my father from the ages of 5-12. Not uncommon, that.

Is the "joke" funny to me? What do you think?

Thank god I have a husband who finds this kind of crap just as paternalistic, sexist, and creepy as I do.
post #230 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by loraxc
Let me tell you what: my father WAS like this, only it wasn't a joke. He threatened my boyfriend, subtly and un-subtly. He refused permission for many, many things involving boys. He did everything he could short of locking me in my room with a chastity belt on.

Let me tell you something else: I was sexually abused by my father from the ages of 5-12. Not uncommon, that.

Is the "joke" funny to me? What do you think?

Thank god I have a husband who finds this kind of crap just as paternalistic, sexist, and creepy as I do.
My father was also like this guy. My uncle actually did clean his gun while a boyfriend was being questioned (my dad was out of the country). My dad also refused to allow me go out alone with a boy for many years.

He did not abuse me sexually. I am not sure what the reference to not uncommon is. I do apologize for what you went through with your father.
post #231 of 257
Quote:
I am not sure what the reference to not uncommon is.
My point is that a huge number of women have been sexually abused in some way by family members, often fathers or stepfathers. Many such fathers and stepfathers, from my anecdotal reading, then go on to be very possessive of their daughters in adolescence. I am probably not the only one who has read this thread who had such an experience. To me, the "Lighten up, ha ha, joke, joke" POV here is one that willfully ignores this painful truth.

I believe there is a connection between the "I own my daughter's sexuality" POV and childhood sexual abuse of girls.
post #232 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by loraxc
Let me tell you what: my father WAS like this, only it wasn't a joke. He threatened my boyfriend, subtly and un-subtly. He refused permission for many, many things involving boys. He did everything he could short of locking me in my room with a chastity belt on.

Let me tell you something else: I was sexually abused by my father from the ages of 5-12. Not uncommon, that.

Is the "joke" funny to me? What do you think?

Thank god I have a husband who finds this kind of crap just as paternalistic, sexist, and creepy as I do.

I am sorry those things happened to you, but you have to know that is not the 'norm' no matter how 'not uncommon' it is.... it is not normal to have to go through those things, and i empathize with you.


really do, no snarkiness from me on this comment.



but this 'joke' is not about an abusive father..... but we all only see things through our own looking glasses.
post #233 of 257
Quote:
but this 'joke' is not about an abusive father.
This joke is about a father who is being inappropriately possessive of his daughter's sexuality. It is possible for this kind of attitude to have a inappropriate, sexually abusive tinge to it. Even though the sexual abuse was no longer ongoing by the time I was a teen, my father's attitude FELT like a continuation of the abuse. He used to interrogate me as to what my boyfriend and I "did" together. Creepy, isn't it? Honestly, though, it's just a stone's throw from this kind of attitude,

By the way, when I eventually told my boyfriend about my father, he was hardly surprised. You may want to think hard about the kind of message you send to others when you act this way about your child's sexuality.
post #234 of 257
The bashing on this thread is what makes me hesitate to post anything on this site. I am so afraid of being bashed for my opinion so I useually keep to myself. I can't believe how far the OP has been taken out of context.

to everyone!!
post #235 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by loraxc
This joke is about a father who is being inappropriately possessive of his daughter's sexuality. It is possible for this kind of attitude to have a inappropriate, sexually abusive tinge to it. Even though the sexual abuse was no longer ongoing by the time I was a teen, my father's attitude FELT like a continuation of the abuse. He used to interrogate me as to what my boyfriend and I "did" together. Creepy, isn't it? Honestly, though, it's just a stone's throw from this kind of attitude,

By the way, when I eventually told my boyfriend about my father, he was hardly surprised. You may want to think hard about the kind of message you send to others when you act this way about your child's sexuality.
See now this is where we differ. I don't see this as a father being "inappropriately possessive of his daughter's sexuality." I see this as a protective father much the same as my father was.
post #236 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalateaDunkel
Pretty sad that it is considered inappropriate for a male to want to protect his children from the potential sexual aggression of other males.

Oh wait, teenage boys can do no wrong. There's no such thing as date rape. Never mind.
1. No one ever said that a male cannot or should not protect his daughter from sexual aggression. Or if they have, I missed it. (Quite possible in a thread this long really.) I believe that nearly every parent, mother or father, would intervene if his child (son or daughter) was being sexually assaulted. I will be aggressive, or "violent" if you will, in self defense or in the defense of my child. But most of this thread hasn't been really discussing that kind of situation ...it's been discussing things like being late home from a date, or touching a girl anywhere but on her hands.

2. What some are considering inappropriate is threating a daughter's date with physical violence and intimidating him with weaponry. This is very different, in my mind, than protecting them because I think I can do that (and more importantly help them do that for themselves) without bringing out firearms. (Oh and I wanted to mention that I am not anti-guns as a general rule just in case someone was thinking that.)

3. No one on this thread has said there is no such thing as date rape. Of course there is. Again I don't think that we are discussing that in this thread for the most part. The "joke" describes normal dating ie picking a girl up at her home, taking her somewhere, and bringing her home a few hours later. The implication that all teen boys are crazed sex maniacs who cannot respect a girl or her family is a large part of my problem. It's way too general. I think we all know that the teen years are a hormonal time, but that doesn't mean it renders every teenager an idiot bent on sexual assault.
post #237 of 257
I've seen this joke before on another board I used to frequent. I think honking at the door to pick up your date is rude. Aside from that, there's nothing in the joke that I find funny in any way. Obviously some people do think it's funny. DH actually thought so the first time he read it. I find the attitude expressed within it really, really creepy. I'd be horrified if my dad had ever treated one of my dates that way.

That kind of behaviour doesn't protect daughters. My dad and my brother are both big, strong "macho" men...furniture movers, by trade. You can bet the guys we met thought about the fact that our dad was a big man. But, that didn't stop one of them from date-raping my sister, and it didn't stop another one from trying the same thing with me. If that kind of intimidation protected our daughters from predatory males, it might be worth trying...but it doesn't. (No - dad didn't try to intimidate, but he did so, anyway. When you're a 140 pound 15-year-old highschool boy, the 220 pound, muscular father of your date is not a reassuring sight. I heard about it...a lot, and it did stop one guy who wanted to date me - not just have sex with me - from even trying.)

I also trusted the judgment of my parents when they told me they didn't like a friend or a date. I knew it wasn't because of some stupid superficial thing. I knew mom didn't like a friend just because she looked a little rough, because many of my other friends looked rough, too. I knew dad didn't dislike a guy I was dating, just because he was dating me...because dad liked other guys I dated just fine. If they didn't like me spending time with someone, there was a real reason (and they never, ever forbade me to do so).

So, let's see...rule two: I'm not telling my daughter's date not to look at her in front of me. Good god! I sincerely hope that my daughter will have enough self-respect not to date a guy who's willing to ogle her and leer at her in front of her parents...or at all, to be honest. That kind of behaviour is disrespectful. But, it's up to my daughter to draw the boundaries...I guess I could feel she was "safe" (from what? her own sexuality?) if the guy didn't touch her "in front of me", but if they're going to hold hands or kiss as soon as they leave, what difference does it make? I want my daughter's date to be himself when he comes to my house, so I know who my daughter is dating. Lots of creeps appear to be on their best behaviour when daddy's watching.

Rule Three: Um..ick. Not my business to tell my daughter's date how to dress. I used to hang out with kids in studded leather...some of them were jerks, and some of them were sweethearts. The clothes mean nothing to me, especially in the teens.

Rule Four: Again...ick. If my daughter's date rapes her, I may kill him. But, that's not what the joke implies at all. It implies that if they have consensual sex, daddy will "kill" his daughter's date. I hope my daughter isn't going to have casual sex, because I think it's both physically and emotionally risky, but...how is threatening the guy supposed to help?

Rule Five: So - what's the problem with the guy trying to be polite? Isn't a failure to be polite the great offense in Rule One?? If you're keeping your ears open, social chit-chat is a great place to start getting a fix on someone, anyway (see Rule Two about knowing who my daughter is dating). This guy can't win...being polite is out, but being rude is out, too.

Rule Six: Yuck, yuck, yuck!! "My little princess now owns your life, just because you dated her once." Yuck!! again. If she made a bad choice, and the guy's a fickle Romeo type, then she has to endure some heartache...much as I don't want to see my daughter ever go through this, I have no doubt she will. Daddy being a neanderthal isn't going to change that.

Rule Seven: WTF? Okay - more "my little princess" crap. It's perfectly okay for the daughter to be inconsiderate, but god forbid the date have any feelings.

Rule Eight: I have little to say. The entire theme of this rule is just grotesque. "Take my daughter out - treat her with respect - but make damned sure she doesn't have a good time."

Rule Nine: Missed this one. I agree absolutely that the date shouldn't lie. However...does the daughter not know where the date is going to be? She shouldn't be lying to me, either.

Rule Ten: Okay- that one's just goofy. More of the same, but just goofy.

I guess I can see how some people would find this funny. Humour is tricky. But, the overall theme really wigs me out. I guess I believe that all humour is rooted in truth (including cultural truths) and I find the cultural truths that this particular joke draws its humour from to be disturbing, at best.

Oh - and supervision in this arena's over-rated. I had one friend who wasn't allowed to date or wear makeup or anything. Guess who was the first one in my crowd of friends to be sexually active? Guess who cut class on a regular basis to spend time in her boyfriend's van? Guess who had the first baby? It wasn't any of the ones who weren't "protected" from boys or from their own sexuality.
post #238 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiacanuck
I put this on yesterday and had not a chance to get back online till today ...i did not realize the ****storm this would create ....its a joke...obviously some people do not share the same humour geez ...it wasnt meant to be sexist and it wasnt meant for you all to rip my husband to shreads...he didnt make it up somebody else did
I am sorry you feel like some people here "tore your husband to shreds". I did not. I also realize that he didn't create this list of rules.

Quote:
for the people that picked thru it just for something to protest about ...as i see it ..as i said before its a joke ...get it..
Well no we clearly do not "get it". We get that some people think it's funny, and that they have a right to think it's funny. We also have a right to discuss these differences here. Sometimes there is debate on a message board. I didn't have to pick through anything. I found the whole thing to be just no good.

Quote:
that was my one and only joke that will ever be posted on this board ...you dont know me or my husband so knock off the crap about how hes sexist or any of the other off remarks...im glad your life is so entertaining that you could spend the whole day on the computer ripping apart a silly joke...
Well it's certainly up to you to decide if what, if anything, you want to post on this board. Speaking for myself, I am not angry at anyone here personally. It's the ideas I am debating. People are going to do what they feel is right. We all have to decide for ourselves what we think is sexist or isn't sexist. My life is pretty happy generally. I do enjoy debating topics that I find interesting and meaningful. You don't have to debate if you don't want to, but once a thread is up it kind of has the freedom to take on a life of it's own within the user guidlines of course. You have to decide what is right for you and your child. In that process I wish you the best.
post #239 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa
but that doesn't mean it renders every teenager an idiot bent on sexual assault.


see, now here is where the 'looking' glass comes into play. I agree. not 'every'

but you just described the majority of my graduating class. boys and girls.


yeah, i said majority. my looking glass.

we also had ALOT of teen pregnancies in our area too, they 'force' those girls to go to the alternative school. force is a relative term, but the real highschool 'claims' 0% preg rate, but that is coz they send them to the alternative school
post #240 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride
Oh - and supervision in this arena's over-rated. I had one friend who wasn't allowed to date or wear makeup or anything. Guess who was the first one in my crowd of friends to be sexually active? Guess who cut class on a regular basis to spend time in her boyfriend's van? Guess who had the first baby? It wasn't any of the ones who weren't "protected" from boys or from their own sexuality.
See now in my "crowd" most of my friends parents were highly protective and vigilent in the supervision aspect. None of us ended up sexually active, cut class, or became pregnant. It seems maybe your friend's parents didn't educate her about sex. I wasn't allowed to wear make-up or date until I was sixteen, but my parents educated me about sex. Big difference. My crew will be protected and highly supervised, but they will also be educated as to all aspects of sex and sexual relationships.
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