19 yr old living at home--limits? - Page 2

[Pynki]

When I was 19 I lived at home with my dad and my step mom. I had to pay rent and the still wanted to be able to enforce rules on me. I finally said look. I pay you $300/month to live here. I could get a fairly nice apartment on $300/month and be closer to work and not have to worry about you yelling at me for not getting the dishes done, and I wouldn't have to watch my baby sister.

I did move out about 5 months into the deal. Work, and rent, and rules just REALLY didn't mix for me. If I was paying them to live there they didn't get to be my parents too.

Also 3 summer classes is a LOT of classes and work in a REALLY compacted time frame.

I'm taking 2 classes and it's HARD. I'm taking them online so I have access to them whenever I have free time, and it is still HARD. I can't IMAGINE being able to take 3 and still have a job on top of that.

I think you are expecting too much authoritiy over a 19 yr old person. He may still be YOUR child, but he isn't A child.

[choli]

Originally Posted by PancakeGoddess

yk, I don't think the 18-21 age range is as simple as it used to be.

Making sweeping statements about those kids being "adults" is pretty unreasonable, IMO. Legally they're adults, fine, whatever. But the reality is that the world is complicated and getting more complicated.
their magic birthday. If they seem to need involved parenting at 19, I plan to keep giving it, doing that difficult dance between standing back and stepping
I intend to take things a day at a time with my children forever, not just until in, just as I do with my younger kids.

I do hope that my kids will be making their own choices wrt curfew and outings when they are that age, because I'd rather not get into a power struggle, insisting on compliance that I legally can't demand.

I just don' t think this "he's an adult, he needs to get on his feet and survive" mentality is very helpful or realistic for some kids.

You know, there are women on MDC that became mothers at a younger age than the young man in question. I myself was living away from home, working full time, supporting myself and sending money back home at a year younger than 19. If someone had suggested a midnight curfew to me I would have been pretty insulted. That just strikes me as a ridiculous attempt to retain the sort of control more suited to a 9 yr old than to a person old enough to vote, marry, go to war, etc.

How did the OP come to "find" the pot in his room?

If the OP does not want to pay for his school any more then don't pay it. It makes more sense than paying for it then expecting him to pay rent, I think. When he is paying for it himself he will take it much more seriously than when it is being handed to him. If that means that it takes a few years before he realizes the importance of school, the world won't end. He may even find that he does not need a college education to get the kind of work he will enjoy best.

[pookel]

I can't imagine having a curfew enforced on me at age 19. I would have been insulted too. I haven't had a curfew since ... well, ever. When I was old enough to be going out late at night, the house rule was that I had to tell my parents where I was (relevant info in pre-cell phone days) and that I not wake them up by being noisy when I came home. IMO, it is OK to enforce house rules that are important to *your* life (e.g., "don't wake us up coming in late," "don't leave wet towels on the floor"), but not rules that you're imposing solely for "his own good." He's an adult, and you should treat him like one.

[WNB]

I think the "rules" for living in the house should be set up based on consensus built between adults.

I think the decisions about rent, bill paying, school tuition payments, etc. should be made as parents.

it may seem like an arbitrary distinction, but I don't think it is. Any other place he chooses to live, unless he finds an apartment all to himself, he's going to have to come to some agreement about ground rules with his roommate(s). Most likely, these agreements are going to be based on consensus, rather than one party telling the other(s) how it's going to be. So I would follow the same model with your son.

Regarding the finances of the arrangement, and your concern for his continued education, that seems like a more appropriate area for "parental discretion" -- i.e., where you can just say, this is how it's going to be. Either you pay, or you don't, or you contribute X toward the expenses... whatever you feel will be in his best interest.

I don't think you should set conditions for paying that are a function of respecting the basic ground rules you've agreed upon for living there. If he's not respecting the ground rules -- or you aren't -- invoking the "or else we won't pay" clause seems to eliminate the whole aspect of consensus and mutual respect for each other on which the rules were based in the first place.

[Joannarachel]

If he is living rent-free as a child under your roof, I think you are within your rights to set limits.

If he is not, I would suggest drawing up a renter's agreement (including rent, LOL), and treating him as you would any other tenant.

[crissei]

Uh... you gave him permission to go to the beach? I married my DH at (barely)19 and I didn't have to get permission.
I know of course age has really little to do with maturity level but, I still can't imagine even an immature 19 year old having to ask permission to go somwhere.

[Storm Bride]

Personally, I don't think a curfew is reasonable at 19. But, I agree that he should be expected to check in. I don't see that as an overcontrolling parenting thing. I see it as basic courtesy to people you live with. If dh is going to be home late from work, he lets me know. When I was living at mom's as an adult (I stayed until I was 23 and did pay room & board), I told her where I was...and so did the other two women living there. If I went to my fiance's place, and was planning to come home, I called if I changed my mind and spent the night. That's not about trying to control someone, imo. It's about not making people worry unnecessarily. If someone (any age) tells me they'll be home at 10:00, and midnight comes and goes, I do start to wonder if something happened to them. Why would I expect my dh to call me if things change, but not expect the same courtesy from my kids?

[mama_bee]

while i don't have a teenager, i am just barely older than your son and i have a few opinions on the matter. while he's still your son, he is an adult. he should be treated as such. "allowing" him to hang out with his friends and setting unreasonable boundaries will only make him resent you. i think if you're going to set rules, they need to be made in the mindset of being roommates, NOT as a parent of a child. i think calling if he'll be late, checking in occasionally and so forth is reasonable. setting a curfew? ridiculous.

your DS makes a great point when he says if he lived elsewhere, he wouldn't be held to these standards. sure, it's your home but you've essentially invited him to stay as an adult, a roommate, an EQUAL -- not a child.

[doulamomvicki]

This is the general jist of our agreement with ds#1 who is 17 and just graduated from high school.
- We love you ds very much and want to see you reach all your goals.
- We do not need you to live in our home - we can manage without you
- We expect you to contribute to the household (chores, pick up sibs) as we all do because you are a member of the household.
- You when you are 18 you do not have a curfew unless you are driving our car. Then it is midnight. If you are not driving and plan to stay out past 12am you must let us know. Mom won't sleep from worry if you don't call and will be cranky the next day:
- You can continue to have friends over the house as long as they are respectful.
- We expect you to continue to not use drugs or alcohol.
- You need to pay for your car insurance, gas and maintenance. Insurance is due on the 7th of every month.
- If there are disputes that arise or concerns about these rules we will discuss them at a set time using our "Fair Fighting Agreement"
-You can continue to live here as long as you are in school. When you are no longer in school, we will meet to discuss move out date and timeline.
This agreement was signed by ds, me and dh.

I know, I know. I am sure everyone here thinks I am crazy, but we did this to prevent any "misunderstandings" with our soon to be adult child - our expectations are spelled out. We have no problem with him staying here as long as he continues to grow and work towards his goals. I don't want to be so controlling of him that he resents dh and I. He needs to enjoy life and his accomplishments. But on the other hand I don't want to resent him for causing me to worry, being irresponsible, not being productive, etc, KWIM?
So far there is peace on the home front - any disputes have been discussed and dealt with.

-

[PancakeGoddess]

I've seen it so much in this thread, that a 19yo is an adult. I'm curious why so many are willing to just take this arbitrary legal thing and turn it into an emotional/developmental reality for all kids.

We certainly don't do that with the rest of our kids' milestones - especially on MDC. What if I said, well he's SEVEN, so he must be able to read, or he's THREE so he must be potty-trained? I'm not suggesting we lord over young adults, because of course we can't even legally get away with that, but just that we think critically about this arbitrary age thing that's so popular. Every person has their own pace/path.

I dunno... I said it in my other post way back there, but I think a lot of 18-2osomethings need parenting. Not *dominance* and "permission," but still... parenting. So, I do agree that "allowing" the OP's son to go to the beach sounds off, I don't think it's very wise to consider age 18 some magic number.

[birthpartner]

Thanks to the few people who gave me something to consider. Most of you have your opinions without being a parent of an older teen, or you are really young yourself, which IMO makes you "wet behind the ears". Respect is something which seems to have been missed in most of the posts. When you live on your own as an adult you can do whatever you want, but when you live with someone else--especially your parents there should be mutual respect. At 19 sleepovers are not to hang out with friends and watch movies--they are a way to be able to party all night and crash, just as spring break in Daytona Beach is not for building sandcastles. I'm sure most of you would be like my DS's friends parents that let all the friends who are under drinking age come over, take the keys away and supply the beer to kids under the minimum drinking age of 21. My DS never has friends over, because we are not cool and don't allow that. He's not old enough to get the concept that there is liability involved and it sends the wrong message.
I had a similar set of rules as doulamomvicki except for not being free to stay out all night--2 am was mutually agreeable. But, it became a problem when many of the the things on that list were not followed.
We have worked things out now, he has a little more freedom as long as he earns respect with what he has, we will add more freedom. We feel that we don't run a hotel or apartment, so we will not expect rent, but asking him to mow the lawn once a week is all we expect. He is looking into other programs at school which would let him have an easier time at school until he figures out how to pass the classes that he claims to have a mental block in. He wants to go into software design/gaming, so there is no way around getting a degree at some point. So, slap whatever label you want on it, I think my DS will end up maturing down the road sometime and he will appreciate the way in which he was parented. My parents are still there for me, and I hope that he will feel the same way all of his life.

[doulamomvicki]

Birthpartner

[doulamomvicki]

oops!

[doulamomvicki]

[So, slap whatever label you want on it, I think my DS will end up maturing down the road sometime and he will appreciate the way in which he was parented. My parents are still there for me, and I hope that he will feel the same way all of his life. Birthpartner:[/QUOTE] \

Birthpartner

Of course there is no "magical" age a child is a mature adult. But, IME, the children themselves seem to think 18=adult, KWIM? My ds#1, who by the way is a great kid gives us alot of "when I turn 18 I can....." Birthpartner is right, you don't know how it really is until you are there. Some of my older kids friends parents do things like the parties with alcohol and so forth. My older cousin, who was AP and inspired me to parent that way, was the "cool" parent to her older kids. These "kids" are now in their 30's, live at home and have no career/education.

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by PancakeGoddess

Making sweeping statements about those kids being "adults" is pretty unreasonable, IMO. Legally they're adults, fine, whatever. But the reality is that the world is complicated and getting more complicated.

I just don' t think this "he's an adult, he needs to get on his feet and survive" mentality is very helpful or realistic for some kids.

ITA. I also don't think a child that is 18 should have to pay rent each month for the house he was raised in. He didn't do it all along so why should he just because he turned 18?? Well, unless the parents were having financial difficulties and his share helped tremendously. I'm sure it just goes by each situation. Just because a kid turns "18" doesn't mean that they should be paying rent so why not pay their parents? That's crazy.

I do believe a child should have to pay something, like help with bills, groceries, a small portion of the mortgage or whatever, but not 300+ dollars in rent. I think that's a little excessive. I don't remember making much more than that in a month at the age of 18 and I worked full-time even then. I helped out with my mom and respected her rules in HER house but I was part of her family and no way she would have made me pay her rent simply because I hit that magical 18th birthday.

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by birthpartner

Most of you have your opinions without being a parent of an older teen, or you are really young yourself, which IMO makes you "wet behind the ears". Respect is something which seems to have been missed in most of the posts. When you live on your own as an adult you can do whatever you want, but when you live with someone else--especially your parents there should be mutual respect.

So, slap whatever label you want on it, I think my DS will end up maturing down the road sometime and he will appreciate the way in which he was parented. My parents are still there for me, and I hope that he will feel the same way all of his life.

I gave my advice based on what my sisters both are doing with their teenagers and what my DH's parents did with their grandchildren (all 4) that are now ages 17-25. My DH has 3 neices and 1 nephew all deemed "adults" according to society and the 3 girls have all had one baby already and only one of them is married (only married because of a baby) and the boy still lives at home but uses drugs and doesn't work (never has really) and he's 21. They are all in sad situations because they thought they were adults at 18 and were forced out of their homes to college only to fudge up and end up back at home doing nothing but living off their grandparents. There has to be a fine line between letting a teenager over 18 do what they want and making them help out in some sort of way towards their living arrangements. Like I said, they shouldn't pay rent but they should do something to help out if they are living at home still and especially if they don't work OR go to college.

[PancakeGoddess]

Originally Posted by mommy68

I do believe a child should have to pay something, like help with bills, groceries, a small portion of the mortgage or whatever, but not 300+ dollars in rent. I think that's a little excessive. I don't remember making much more than that in a month at the age of 18 and I worked full-time even then. I helped out with my mom and respected her rules in HER house but I was part of her family and no way she would have made me pay her rent simply because I hit that magical 18th birthday.

Yes...doesn't it seem appropriate to give responsibility and privilege gradually, just as we do until age 18? I ask for more each year from my kids, in terms of household responsibility. When they are old enough to make money, I'll ask for financial responsibility, commensurate with their earning potential.

As for wet behind the years, of course, this is me chiming in on a thread about kids of an age I don't have. And I really hate when that happens to me (lots of people have big opinions about 8-12 yos around here even when they only have toddlers/preschoolers), so I fully expect my ideas to be taken with that in mind.

My spouse and I were responsible for my teenage sister quite a lot, including having her live with us, so I do have some real day-to-day experience with this, but not with my own child.

[doulamomvicki]

I would not feel too good about charging my ds rent. He is a member of our family, not our tenant. Plus I think that could make him resent us. All we expect is that he respect the family home, do a few things around the home as he did before and pursue his goals. We are reasonable parents. As long as he is growing and maturing, we have no problems. I believe that society has made it hard for young adults to be out succuessfully on their own. We are willing to support Ian while he continues on his journey to adulthood. But, if he lost his mind: and chose to do nothing/just be a partier, I would have a serious problem with that. I won't be an enabler. Like I said, IME it is more the child who feels that because they are 18 they want to leave the nest and experience everything life has without the responsibility (money, education, job, place to live, etc). There are parents out there who say "18, out the door" but not as many as you think. DS#1's friends who are moving out (not including those who are going to college and parents are paying eveything) have no plan, no money and the parents are not at all happy with the kid. My ds is going to Paul Mitchell cosmetology school for a year then going to FDIM for fashion design in Los Angeles next year. He has chose this route because he knows that he will need extra money to live while away at school and wants to have a skill to fall back on. I think this is a great plan, a very responsible plan. DH and I told him upfront what we can pay while he is at school, the rest he needed to plan for. Sure enough, he did. I am proud of him .

[doctorjen]

I'm finding this to be such a tough part of parenting. As your child gets older, you naturally want to turn over more of the decision making to them - but it's hard when they then choose to make really poor decisions!
My oldest ds is also 17, and a recent high school grad, and starting college in the fall. We are operating under a similar agreement as doulamomvicki. We aren't using a set curfew any more, but he is expected to let us know where he is and what he's up to, and I do get upset if I find out he's not being truthful (I don't really go around checking, but it has happened that I've found out accidentally.) Once school starts in the fall, we are expecting him to make an effort towards academic success and at least be able to keep his scholarship, or we'd have to reconsider paying as much as we will be for school. I don't think that's unreasonable. Obviously if he were really struggling, or ill, or some other crisis came up we'd try to help. For the most part, it's working - but it's sure hard to see your kids make mistakes you know would have been avoided if they just did it your way - especially if they go against what you consider to be the core values in your family.
I don't think there's any one way to do this all right - you just have to get through it, hopefully with mutual respect and faith in each other surviving.
You know, when they are 2 you expect to be doing all the work in the relationship (not to say that 2 year olds can't be wonderfully loving, but you don't expect them to contribute a lot of mental effort to your relationship.) By the time they are 18, naturally your expectations have risen. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect your older teen/young adult to respect your values and feelings. Not that they necessarily have to do everything your way, but it doesn't seem fair for them to expect full support financially while deliberately doing everything you ask them not to!
I like the idea of deciding what things you are hoping to support by having your older teen live at home, and contracting about those things, but giving a lot of freedom in everyday life. I also think that all members of a family ought to be contributing - so I expect my older teen to help out as needed, not as a form of rent but because he is a part of our family. I'm new to all this, though, and expect to tweak it as time goes on!

[doulamomvicki]

with doctorjen!