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"When someone hits you you hit them back."  

post #1 of 17
6/26/06 at 8:40pm
Thread Starter 
My ds told me that this is what he was told at preschool today. Apparently a boy, "E", wouldn't leave ds alone, despite ds telling him to, so ds hit him. E them hit ds back. So what I can gather is that during the conversation with one of the teachers she said to my ds something like "Well, when you hit someone they are probably going to hit you back." I'm not sure if E not leaving ds alone was addressed or not - I can't get enough info from ds to determine what else happened. I addressed both issues with ds, but he seems to be running with "if someone hits you you hit them back."

The point of my post is that I can't really figure out how I feel about this statement. On one hand, no, you don't hit someone back just because they hit you. You go ask for help. Such as when ds2 hits ds1. But on the other hand, in a way it is true - very often if someone hits you your first reaction may to be hit back, and it may be unrealistic to expect a child to always remain calm, walk away, and ask for help first. Heck, most adults can't do that.

So what would you say to your 5yo about this?
post #2 of 17
6/26/06 at 9:08pm
As a school teacher, I can tell you that I hear this a lot from kids and parents. For some reason, I heard this more at the inner city school than the rich suburban schools. My answer is always that hitting is not allowed at school. You can have different rules at home. So, your answer could be that you have different rules than this boy does. I would also call the teacher and ask her what she said. If she did indeed say this, you need to contact the center director because that is very wrong. What if your child or the other child had been hit hard enough to cause an injury? The school would be liable and the teacher as well.
post #3 of 17
6/26/06 at 9:27pm
Thread Starter 
Oh, just to clarify, if the teacher did say that I'm sure she didn't say it in the vein of that's what you're supposed to do - hit back if someone hits you. My guess is that ds complained that E hit him, and then upon finding out that ds hit E first, said something like "Well, when you hit someone they may hit you back." I'm sure she went on to explain to both of them that they shouldn't be hitting at all. And I do intend to follow up with her when we go back.

But I was wondering what exactly to say to ds about this. Is it only in our house that we don't hit someone back? What about on the playground? When is it okay to hit someone back and when isn't it? I feel uneasy making the blanket statement that hitting someone back is wrong, but I also feel uneasy with the blanket statement that it is what you're supposed to do.
post #4 of 17
6/26/06 at 11:06pm
I get this a lot from parents of my students, too. "I told ____ that if someone hits him to hit them back." I say, "You can tell him that if you want, but there are consequences for hitting at school. It doesn't matter who hit who first."

I will NOT be teaching my ds that. He certainly needs to learn how to stand up for himself, but hitting back is not acceptable to me. I will teach him problem-solving skills and that walking away is more noble than fighting back. And, as you said, asking for help.

It is important for a child to learn, though, that one of the consequences for hitting someone MAY be that you get hit back!

Sorry your ds is having/had problems at school with another student.
post #5 of 17
6/26/06 at 11:47pm
i would tell my ds that it is NEVER okay to hit someone back.
post #6 of 17
6/27/06 at 1:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalebsMama05
i would tell my ds that it is NEVER okay to hit someone back.
See, but that's the problem. I said this to dh once, and he vehemently disagreed. Now, dh is not by any stretch of the imagination an overly macho, violent, aggressive person. But he was picked on a lot in school, and he knows how useless teachers and other adults can be when kids are taunting and even hitting another kid. So he does not think we should teach ds that you never hit someone back. He thinks that there are situations in which you need to defend yourself. And I somewhat agree with him. I just don't know how to explain the difference to a 5yo.

And I guess that kind of answers my own question - I feel 5yo is too young to have to be able to discern when to fight back and when to get help. It just sucks that we have to deal with it now at this age, even at the most gentle, wonderful, alternative little preschool you could hope to find.
post #7 of 17
6/27/06 at 2:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanbaby
See, but that's the problem. I said this to dh once, and he vehemently disagreed. Now, dh is not by any stretch of the imagination an overly macho, violent, aggressive person. But he was picked on a lot in school, and he knows how useless teachers and other adults can be when kids are taunting and even hitting another kid. So he does not think we should teach ds that you never hit someone back. He thinks that there are situations in which you need to defend yourself. And I somewhat agree with him. I just don't know how to explain the difference to a 5yo.

And I guess that kind of answers my own question - I feel 5yo is too young to have to be able to discern when to fight back and when to get help. It just sucks that we have to deal with it now at this age, even at the most gentle, wonderful, alternative little preschool you could hope to find.
my stbx feels teh same way except he feels like that because he IS macho man...he thinks.

maybe for now just let him know it is NOT okay and when he gets a bit older and can understand more let him know that he can defend himself. now i personally don't believe that violence is EVER the answer...whether someone is hitting you or not but that's just me i guess.
post #8 of 17
6/27/06 at 2:11am
You tell your dh that nowadays parents are suing each other and schools over anything that could remotely be called bullying or assault. Hitting is assault, no matter what the age. And, it is illegal for an adult to assault another adult or a child. It does not matter what the circumstances. I would wager that most public and private schools have rules saying that hitting is not allowed. (some still do corporal punishment and I don't know what they would say) As an elementary school teacher and as a parent, I would say that two wrongs don't make a right. It is my experience in public and private schools that children who hit don't get a lot of mercy from administrators, particularly if it is a repeat occurrence. You would not want to send your child with the attitude that it is ok to hit and then find yourself trying to explain to the principal that your dh allows hitting in retaliation. That is just not going to cut it and the principal is going to have to punish your child. If there was bullying, the principal and teacher would deal with that as well. But, even if your child was trying to defend himself from bullies (hypothetically) hitting would still not be seen as a good solution. Trust me. This is a huge issue in schools today. The "boys will be boys" attitude is long gone.

This reminds me a bit of a situation that was occurring in our home when my daughter was first learning to speak. Dh was cursing a normal amount but I was trying to get him to stop because I was picturing myself having to take phone calls from teachers who could not get my child to stop cursing in class. I told him that if he wanted to continue to curse, that was fine with me but if dd got in trouble for that, he was going to have to take time off from work to go to school and explain his influence to them. I would wash my hands of it. He stopped cursing. You could try this with your dh. If he insists on teaching this attitude to your child, then he should be the one responsible for it if your child ever gets in trouble for hitting.
post #9 of 17
6/27/06 at 3:56am
Sometimes hitting back is okay. Yes, you can get in trouble for it, but if hitting someone stops them from bullying you when nothing else does, school punishment can be worth it because it's rarely as bad as bullying can be. I'm not saying that a preschooler can differentiate, but I do believe that hitting back has its proper place.
post #10 of 17
6/27/06 at 8:39am
It may be a description of the consequences of hitting, but it is not a good way to run a preschool! The way to respond to hitting is generally something like: "We don't hit here, use your words" or some variation on that.

Because it might be true that if you hit people in some contexts that they will hit back, but school SHOULD NOT be one of those contexts!

Call the preschool and get their policy on this, and tell them what happened and how your son was confused by what the teacher said.
post #11 of 17
6/27/06 at 8:58am
I'm in the hitting back camp....sort of.

First, why is a child in school being hit in the first place? The children should be monitoed and there should be an atmosphere of safety in a school. If a teacher is telling the student to hit back, she's part of the creation of a hostile environment as opposed to a safe environment where the potential for hitting is reduced and/or nipped in the bud so a student never feels the need to defend himself.

Second, we teach the kiddos to block (it's a karate thing,) If you're being hit, block (you can't hit back or defend yourself without a good block, unless you can simply shift out of the way, but block.) Now, a block can *hurt* if you want it to, so blocking a punch can be a good deterrent. Hopefully, in a good school setting, all the child would need to do is block an attack once and the teacher or aide would be on top of the situation.

If the teacher is *not* on top of the situation, what do people expect, for the child to sit there and passively get the snot beaten out of him?

If you are continously blocking an attack and the proper authorities are not intervening, *then* I believe the child has every right to counter the attack.

Now, if the child has some *skills* (like my son, Joseph,) you can, as Joseph did, allow the other kid to hurt *himself* with his own violence. Some kid was threatening Joseph and was throwing a punch at Joseph and Joseph stepped to the side quickly and the bully plowed himself, fist first, into the brick wall.

I wished to be the proverbial fly on the wall for that one
post #12 of 17
6/27/06 at 12:25pm
Thread Starter 
This is certainly one of the reasons we are homeschooling, at least for now. Even the best teacher cannot see and prevent every swing that a kid takes. Heck, I only have two kids and I can't see and prevent every time one of them takes a whack at each other. We definitely do not promote hitting, or violence. Both dh and I talk a lot about getting help, using words, even running away. And in fact, ds did just this a few weeks ago. We were at a playground and two 1st grade classes showed up for an end of school outing. The kids were horribly mean to each other, while the teachers just stood by and ignored it, and as I was trying to get the kids the hell out of there a scuffle started and ds bolted across the lawn for our car.

But the disagreement comes with phrases like "It's never okay to hit back." And I don't believe you can simultaneously teach a child that if they hit someone that a consequence may be being hit back, and that it's never okay to hit back.
post #13 of 17
6/27/06 at 12:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanbaby
But the disagreement comes with phrases like "It's never okay to hit back." And I don't believe you can simultaneously teach a child that if they hit someone that a consequence may be being hit back, and that it's never okay to hit back.
well i also plan on teaching my ds's that its not okay to hit at all. so hopefully coupled with the fact that i will be homeschooling and putting them both in martial arts classes (for *socialization*) will teach them that violence is not the answer to any problem. while still allowing them to defend themselves. as much as i wish it were the world isn't perfect and neither are the people that live in it.
post #14 of 17
6/27/06 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanbaby
"Well, when you hit someone they are probably going to hit you back."
All the more reason you should never hit your kids. Being the victim of physical abuse as a child and teenager, I can tell you right now that you get hit so many times and eventually you DO hit back because you're F****** sick of getting shoved around. This other child must have really been antagonizing your son for him to feel the need to physically defend himself. I would definitely have a longer talk with the teacher and get to the bottom of what really happened.
post #15 of 17
6/27/06 at 2:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalebsMama05
well i also plan on teaching my ds's that its not okay to hit at all. .

That's where I run into a problem. (though I did re-read your post and saw that you want your kids to be comfortable defending themselves.)

I do try to teach our kids to use words and to come to me for help and that hitting is not good. But also feel strongly that they should not have a mental block against protecting themselves as they get older. I tell my kids positive steps they can take to avoid hitting, but I don't feel comfortable using the phrase "It is *never* ok to hit." If there was a kidnapper or attacker, wouldn't I want them to fight as hard as they could?
post #16 of 17
6/27/06 at 3:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleigh_mom
That's where I run into a problem. (though I did re-read your post and saw that you want your kids to be comfortable defending themselves.)

I do try to teach our kids to use words and to come to me for help and that hitting is not good. But also feel strongly that they should not have a mental block against protecting themselves as they get older. I tell my kids positive steps they can take to avoid hitting, but I don't feel comfortable using the phrase "It is *never* ok to hit." If there was a kidnapper or attacker, wouldn't I want them to fight as hard as they could?
Exactly. That's what I was trying to say.

I want my ds to feel justified hitting/kicking/punching someone who is really hurting him, but I don't want him taking a swat at a kid on the playground just because that kid hit him first. And I really don't want him hitting another kid because that kid wouldn't leave him alone, but sometimes I wonder if we were talking about a boy not leaving a girl alone if the responses would be diffrent. I feel like my son's request to be left alone should be just as honored as a girl's request to be left alone. And when someone violates those boundaries - then what?
post #17 of 17
6/27/06 at 8:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanbaby
But the disagreement comes with phrases like "It's never okay to hit back." And I don't believe you can simultaneously teach a child that if they hit someone that a consequence may be being hit back, and that it's never okay to hit back.
Some people really believe that it's never okay to hit back. I admire those people.

My philosophy is, if someone hits you, yell your head off and run away!
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