Healing the Gut Tribe ~~ July! - Page 2

[Annikate]

EBG - apples are constipating too.

[MommyofPunkiePie]

subbing

[~Shanna~]

I know we've talked about Kombucha being technically "illegal" on SCD, but I've found that it's really helping me. I'm going to venture out to make my own, but all the reports show that white refined sugar gives the best kombucha. Any advice on how to brew to make it safe-ER for SCD? Some advice to brew for 14 days, but that it gets a little acidic....Any advice would be appreciated!

While I'm waiting for my super-expensive Pro-Gurt starter to arrive, I gave cultured cow cream one last try with a lot of the new Houston enzymes that I just ordered. Wish me luck : I'll report back, in case it can help anyone. Can you tell that I'm doing everything I can to not need goat (or no) dairy?

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by JaneS

That bf'ing WITH a leaky gut and intestinal flora imbalance is
what leads to allergies/intolerances/sensitivities in your babe.

And formula feeding WITH a leaky gut and intestinal flora imbalance leads to.... ?? (allergies/intolerances/sensitivities) or Prevacid, Zantac and no real diagnosis other than "colic"?? Not sure I agree with bf'ing being the culprit.

My impression is that what I ate in pregnancy in large quantities seems to be the foods that ds is intolerant of: dairy, wheat, corn, soy. On the Bradley Childbirth high protein diet, I consumed TONs of dairy and whole wheat. Perhaps, *I* wasn't digesting these properly while pregnant and that was a variable. (Plus there are my mercury fillings and high stress during pregnancy and therefore probably high cortisol levels in utero.) But, I don't see breastfeeding as the culprit. I eliminated those foods very early on while nursing and ds's intolerances have improved greatly over time (with breastfeeding and an elimination diet). So, my perception is that he was born with the leaky gut?/intolerances, not that nursing lead to them. JMHO Can't imagine what would have happened to his immune system with formula. : I really can't believe that an evolutionary necessity (breastfeeding) is maladaptive for a baby's survival. I am more inclined to believe that it is the food (and toxins/mercury) that we/I eat (are exposed to) before and after birth that impair the immune system, irrelevant of route (breast or formula).

Not meaning to be argumentative, but I feel strongly defensive of breastfeeding. And I observed ds's issues very early~6 weeks neonate.

OH, I am rereading and seeming to understand that you mean the MOTHER's leaky gut causes the babies' intolerances. Hmmm....I see. Interesting theory. That could fit our experience also. But, imo, a pregnancy "leaky gut" probably contributes to all the intolerant/sensitive babies who are NOT breastfed. Or do you believe that the formula does in that case? I personally believe that the pregnancy variable is at least as strong as the postnatal experience, because of the documented immunity *benefit* for breastfed babies to have FEWER intolerances/allergies/sensitivities than formula fed babies.

But, we also have the genetic piece that dh's whole family is allergic/intolerant/sensitive GI-wise (and systemically) and most were formula fed. Thanks for the thought provoking discussion.

Pat

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by scubamama

OH, I am rereading and seeming to understand that you mean the MOTHER's leaky gut causes the babies' intolerances. Hmmm....I see. Interesting theory. That could fit our experience also. But, imo, a pregnancy "leaky gut" probably contributes to all the intolerant/sensitive babies who are NOT breastfed. Or do you believe that the formula does in that case? I personally believe that the pregnancy variable is at least as strong as the postnatal experience, because of the documented immunity *benefit* for breastfed babies to have FEWER intolerances/allergies/sensitivities than formula fed babies.

I don't have anything to back this up, but I'm inclined to think the leaky gut problems in babies start after birth...or possibly even during birth, but not before. The baby's gut starts being colonized with bacteria as it travels through the birth canal, so if the mother's gut flora is less than ideal, that is being passed on to the baby. And if the baby is born via C-section, it doesn't get the benefit of the bacteria at all. Then the baby's gut continues being colonized the first time it eats--if it is formula fed, it has absolutely no chance at developing normal gut flora. I've seen links on this but don't have them saved--hopefully someone else can post them. Also, antibiotics or vaxes mess with the gut flora, whether the baby is BF or formula fed.

I think BF'ing, because of all its protective effects, contributes less to allergies than formula feeding, even if the mother does have a leaky gut. JMO, though.

Oh, and my daughter started showing symptoms of food intolerances (diaper rashes and cradle cap) at about one week old. She didn't have them at birth, so I'm inclined to think she was fine at birth. (And she was homebirthed, no antibiotics at any time, no vaxes, EBF.)

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

I don't have anything to back this up, but I'm inclined to think the leaky gut problems in babies start after birth...or possibly even during birth, but not before. <snip>

Oh, and my daughter started showing symptoms of food intolerances (diaper rashes and cradle cap) at about one week old. She didn't have them at birth, so I'm inclined to think she was fine at birth. (And she was homebirthed, no antibiotics at any time, no vaxes, EBF.)

Interesting. We did have meconium and ds did receive several doses of antibiotics (IV) immediately after birth. But, with natural childbirth, no vax, clothe diapers, exclusive breastfeeding for nearly a year, etc. I appreciate your observations from a very pure birth experience at home, etc. This does seem to support the post birth development of GI issues. I am curious about your dairy, wheat consumption prenatally. And mercury exposure as common variables.

I do wonder about the genetic predispostion though as a precursor, AND my other pregnancy "toxins" as a variable in ds's increased sensitivities despite a very healthy pregnancy. I have observed that my diet while breastfeeding was directly a variable in ds intolerances and behaviors. And I wonder if having "corrected"/eliminated so much in my diet so early was the key to him developing a huge ability to tolerate so many foods now.

I continue to lurk as I am still curious if we can "heal" more, for either of us.

Pat

[Pattyla]

I don't think that anyone on here is arguing that children would be better off with formula if the mom has a leaky gut. Instead the argument is that the mom's leaky gut is a contributing factor to why the baby has a leaky gut/allergies/intollerances etc. Luckily bm allows lots of good healing things along with the food particles that are tough to digest. Formula simply has the tough to digest stuff w/o any of the benefit of the antibodies, lauric acid etc that can heal the gut. We aren't ignorant to that fact. However, if I had realized what I was setting myself up for in raising dd by not addressing my own leaky gut years ago when I knew I had it, I wouldn't have pursued ttc her untill I felt I had that solved. It also means that I know that just cutting out the foods she can't tolerate doesn't fix her gut. I need to fix the root cause, her gut flora imbalance.

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by Pattyla

However, if I had realized what I was setting myself up for in raising dd by not addressing my own leaky gut years ago when I knew I had it, I wouldn't have pursued ttc her untill I felt I had that solved. It also means that I know that just cutting out the foods she can't tolerate doesn't fix her gut. I need to fix the root cause, her gut flora imbalance.

Ahh, yes, IF I had known.....


But, I am not completely convinced that the breastmilk (aka my diet/gut issues?) is the only or most significant variable. Unlike caedmyn, we have/had many other variables, (dh's genetic component is a significant one and my 10 mercury fillings). Caedmyn's experience is an interesting one. I am also intrigued since I am not convinced that *I* have/had leaky gut issues BUT ds (and dh) has/had allergies/intolerances/sensitivities. But they are non-debilitating, more questionable than the degree that others have experienced. So, I am intrigued to find relevant variables that could be/could have been addressed from an optimization perspective. We no longer nurse, so that isn't an issue for us. But, I am not sure that the breastmilk/diet is the key to eliminating allergies/intolerances/sensitivities.

I am fascinated to see the progress that others have experienced and compare it to our own. "Healing" the gut is an interesting prospect. I am uncertain that eliminating the causes/intolerances doesn't benefit the gut alone. That seems to be our experience over the long run. He is 5 y/o now. Perhaps, ds's "improvement" is a developmental progression, rather than a "healing". As now (and for about 2 years) he eats many of the things that he couldn't previously. I guess it depends on the definition of "healed". If one has a propensity to a "leaky gut", if they assault it even after "healed", wouldn't one be inclined to have symptoms again? Or is the proposition that the gut will no longer be reactive once "healed"?

I appreciate the discussion of the theory behind the "treatment" of healing the gut.

Oh, but we have utilized the classical homeopathy variable though. Hmmmm....so many variables to untangle.

Pat

[Siana]

Originally Posted by JaneS

That bf'ing WITH a leaky gut and intestinal flora imbalance is what leads to allergies/intolerances/sensitivities in your babe.

I've thought this too, but when I shared this idea/theory with my DP and a local LLL leader, they both thought there was no basis/proof for thinking this.

Originally Posted by caedmyn

I don't have anything to back this up, but I'm inclined to think the leaky gut problems in babies start after birth...or possibly even during birth, but not before...

ITA!

My DS too was 100% fine for about a month after birth (UC birth). Then he started with the throwing up. As that phased out, the eczema phased in.

[Siana]

Re: Consitpation

So Apples and Bananas are both constipating? :

I just read somewhere that very ripe banans aren't considered constipating, but rather more like a laxative. Apparently cooked banana is used for diarrhea.

Also, I thought since both had soluable fiber, this wouldn't be such a huge issue, provided there is sufficient water in the diet??

Wouldn't CLO help lubricate the intestinal track and help with constipation? I've heard Flax seed oil is a rather reliable aid for children with constipation. I certainly don't find the straight oil platable, but I've know several kids who have developed quite a liking for it. I think Flax seed oil would be SCD illegal though.

[Annikate]

Originally Posted by scubamama
If one has a propensity to a "leaky gut", if they assault it even after "healed", wouldn't one be inclined to have symptoms again? Or is the proposition that the gut will no longer be reactive once "healed"?

This a very interesting question and one I 'd love to know the answer to. Not that I'm planning on ever eating again as I once did, I would like to think that once healed, you're healed.

To add to the chicken/egg discussion:

I believe (though I have absolutely no basis for it other than *gut* feeling) that dd had her issues in utero. She was fine when she was born but her skin tone was ruddy and her complexion just awful. Her eyes were not clear and she looked *sick* - - the kind of *sick* that she looked like during the height of the assault of wheat on her system. I posted a picture of her several months ago - - a "before and after" shot. Before eliminating wheat and after. The difference is remarkable.

I believe that she had this problem before she was born because she had sleep issues from the very day she was born.

Even though my diet contained LOTS of refined crap during her first few months I am still convinced that had I been a formula feeding mom, she would have been . . . well, I don't even want to think about it.

Looking back I'm ashamed of myself for the diet I had while pregnant w/her and for her first few months. I was always pretty conscious of what I ate and how I felt. My only excuse is the time factor. I was exhausted most of the time and bought things in the house that I could "grab and eat one-handed." For a person who birthed naturally twice so that no drugs would be passed to my babies, I sure did them a disservice in this regard.

Live and Learn I guess. . . .

ETA: Of course, a mouthful of amalgams and a flu shot while pregnant probably didn't help matters much.

[Annikate]

Siana, re: constipation:

I don't know about the difference between really ripe bananas and not-so-ripe ones. I just know the silly acronym: BRAT for constipating foods. (Bananas, Rice, Apples and Toast.)

Vitamin C will help as will an epsom salt soak. I gave dd some sodium ascorbate this morning in her juice and that seemed to help.

I actually forgot that CLO can help this issue.

[moonshine]

Back from travels. I did pretty well about staying legal, but not completely. Interestingly, after an evening of some illegals, I was no longer constipated in the morning. This happened twice. Thoughts?

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by Annikate

Looking back I'm ashamed of myself for the diet I had while pregnant w/her and for her first few months. I was always pretty conscious of what I ate and how I felt. My only excuse is the time factor. I was exhausted most of the time and bought things in the house that I could "grab and eat one-handed." For a person who birthed naturally twice so that no drugs would be passed to my babies, I sure did them a disservice in this regard.

See, this is what gets me. My diet was so absolutely close to SCD (pre and post birth) except for wheat, some corn and soy. I ate mostly animal protein and vegetables, little fruit. No awareness of any yeast issues for either of us. Very few refined foods. It seems that ds intolerances are/were associated with me eating large amounts of dairy pre and post birth. Once eliminated, GI distress/symptoms improved significantly. Now he can consume dairy and wheat almost daily without issue.

We too had the sleep issues (constantly for two years). But, I attribute that to nap/nursing and habituating the "nipple-in-the-mouth" for sleep inducement/association. Once we added sleep associations, sleep improved 500%. Praise Be to Pantley!

The mercury seems to be the commonality as a precursor, imo. I don't believe that this has been eliminated from him.......... And poor me with a mouth full.

Pat

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by scubamama

The mercury seems to be the commonality as a precursor, imo. I don't believe that this has been eliminated from him.......... And poor me with a mouth full.

Pat

Yeah I have a mouthful of mercury, too

[Annikate]

Me too caedmyn and I'm starting to believe that dd's problems are stemming from her being mercury toxic. (She has been hair tested and the results show "a high probability of mercury poisoning.) Now I'm just trying to figure out what to do next.

[Pookietooth]

EBG, could you try sneaking breastmilk into juice or something? Or mixing it with cooked, cooled fruit? Also, did you post in the breastfeeding forum about the nursing strike? I do hope you can relactate her, both for her health and your peace of mind. ((hugs))).

Has anyone noticed that enzymes caused nosebleeds? I've noticed when I'm taking more of them, ds has a lot more nosebleeds, and when I've slacked off, they improve.

[EBG]

Originally Posted by Pookietooth

EBG, could you try sneaking breastmilk into juice or something? Or mixing it with cooked, cooled fruit? Also, did you post in the breastfeeding forum about the nursing strike? I do hope you can relactate her, both for her health and your peace of mind. ((hugs))).

Has anyone noticed that enzymes caused nosebleeds? I've noticed when I'm taking more of them, ds has a lot more nosebleeds, and when I've slacked off, they improve.

Yes I posted a thread called nursing strike in breastfeeding.
I was able to squirt some bm in her mouth with a syrange (sp?). She resisted tremendously but it's one of those things when I have to put my foot down. I have to force feed her fluids
She is still very very constipated. Poor thing she cries and cries, trying to push and nothing....
We are doing epsom salt baths, trying to force down some prune juice cut out bananas, now apples too... so how come apples are constipating and pears are not? I don't understand which frruits are OK and which ones are not :

She still has a breast aversion, she freaks out when I try to nurse her although I think she's not sick any more. She is still very weak and lethargic.

[chlobo]

So my DDs pooping has become very prolific and still loose in the last few days. Not sure if its because she's eating different foods than normal or what.

At this point I'm thinking of just trying the broad spectrum enzyme and see what happens. What do folks think?

Also, if I take enzymes & she's still bfing (she's 2.5 yrs old) will she be affected by what I'm taking?

[Pattyla]

I went to a new chiro yesterday. I couldn't get ahold of mine and I had a migrane. She fixed my migrane and supposedly is great at fixing kids sleep issues. She is also on our insurance (our regular chiro isn't). I'm taking dd on Monday.

We talked a bit about candida and she said that she has her candidia patients take 2 yeast killers at a time and switch every 3 weeks. So 2 for three weeks then 2 different ones for the next 3 weeks and then a third set of 2 for the 3rd 3 weeks then back to the first ones again. She said to expect it to take at least 9 months to get rid of yeast this way (and following an anti candida diet).

I'm still waiting for that suppliment that was recomended.