Healing the Gut Tribe ~~ July! - Page 3

[moonshine]

Originally Posted by moonshine

Back from travels. I did pretty well about staying legal, but not completely. Interestingly, after an evening of some illegals, I was no longer constipated in the morning. This happened twice. Thoughts?

Quoted myself to see if anyone has any thoughts. I am back to pretty much all legal, and now constipated again.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Originally Posted by JaneS

That bf'ing WITH a leaky gut and intestinal flora imbalance is what leads to allergies/intolerances/sensitivities in your babe.

Not sure I totally agree with this.

Are you saying, if the mother has a leaky gut and breastfeeds, that will result in allergies etc in a baby?

That depends whose immune system the baby has inherited, because theoretically, breastmilk itself should establish the right flora PROVIDED that not one bottle of formula is ever given.

[Pattyla]

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

Not sure I totally agree with this.

Are you saying, if the mother has a leaky gut and breastfeeds, that will result in allergies etc in a baby?

That depends whose immune system the baby has inherited, because theoretically, breastmilk itself should establish the right flora PROVIDED that not one bottle of formula is ever given.

Except that if they get their gut flora from their mom and mom's flora are all messed up... I had a raging vaginal yi that I couldn't get undercontrol right before dd was born.

Well my dd was on abx and was force fed formula at first anyhow so she didn't have a chance.

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

Not sure I totally agree with this.

Are you saying, if the mother has a leaky gut and breastfeeds, that will result in allergies etc in a baby?

That depends whose immune system the baby has inherited, because theoretically, breastmilk itself should establish the right flora PROVIDED that not one bottle of formula is ever given.

Ds never, ever had any formula. And he exclusively breastfeed until most of year, closer to 15-18 months before he was eating about 50% of calories (by guess). And starting first solids at 10 months, only had about 10 bites (total) of rice cereal. And no wheat, dairy, soy, corn, etc. directly until after age 2.5. He still had reactions to these foods if I accidently ate something. And I was VERY anal about our diet. I even made myself throw up when I accidently ate whole wheat bread once.

BUT, he had about 3-4 doses of IV antibiotics immediately after birth. Long story..... fear mongering regarding the meconium and exagerated concerns regarding being "post date" B.S. from the neonatologist. So, we probably messed up his gut from the get-go.

Pat

[Logansmom]

Originally Posted by EBG

Have you tried enzymes?
Enzymedica makes one for allergies, called Allerase. It's high amounts of amylese. Taken between meals.
With meals you could try Digest, Digest Gold or the Houston enzymes -Zyme-Prime because they digest everything, not just one specific food. Also, No-Fenol could help with vegetables and fruits.

Enzymes are one of those things I have been researching to death. : I tend to be overly cautious before I try anything different with him. I have been looking into doing acidophilus and the enzymes before I try the SCD I just haven't felt comfortable with my knowledge about it yet.

I am sooooo thankful to have found this forum. There is so much great info. on here that I don't think I would have found just searching on my own and I really feel like the info I have found here is going to help Logan. Thanks Everyone!

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Pattyla

Except that if they get their gut flora from their mom and mom's flora are all messed up... I had a raging vaginal yi that I couldn't get undercontrol right before dd was born.

Well my dd was on abx and was force fed formula at first anyhow so she didn't have a chance.

:

I think if a mama had the correct gut flora to pass on an intact immune system to her child, then therefore she wouldn't have a leaky gut. Marsha Walker's article on "Just One Bottle" says that six weeks (? I think) of EBF will fix the damage of one bottle and seal up the babe's gut. But I'm sure this is only if the mama's flora is correct, and she doesn't have thrush, etc.

I didn't mean to say this is definitely the way it is. Just my theory that I would love to write about, but can't, as there is no research on it.

I'm strongly of the opinion that messed up gut flora causes food "allergies". Whether it's the food particles in the mama's bloodstream that is leaked thru her gut, or the wrong gut flora, or both.

MT,
Did Archie K's or Robert Reisinger's research touch on this? Anyone else you can point us to?

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by scubamama

Ds never, ever had any formula. And he exclusively breastfeed until most of year, closer to 15-18 months before he was eating about 50% of calories (by guess). And starting first solids at 10 months, only had about 10 bites (total) of rice cereal. And no wheat, dairy, soy, corn, etc. directly until after age 2.5. He still had reactions to these foods if I accidently ate something. And I was VERY anal about our diet. I even made myself throw up when I accidently ate whole wheat bread once.

BUT, he had about 3-4 doses of IV antibiotics immediately after birth. Long story..... fear mongering regarding the meconium and exagerated concerns regarding being "post date" B.S. from the neonatologist. So, we probably messed up his gut from the get-go.

Pat

Isn't modern medicine wonderful

I forget what your story is, Pat... did you have abx or gut problems that contributed to this too you think?

I had abx thru IV right after birth (that they didn't tell me about otherwise I would have refused as they were prophylactic) and DS had a few bottles of formula in the days right after birth only. Labor was 40 hrs long and my water had been leaking for that long. His hematocrit levels were rather high and that was why. I always wondered if not cutting cord right away was good or bad for him. I'm guessing good?

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by moonshine

Quoted myself to see if anyone has any thoughts. I am back to pretty much all legal, and now constipated again.

After "illegals" it would make sense that you wouldn't be constipated, as certain gut bugs would increase. For ex. my DS still cannot do raw fruit. Total mush appears. The stools actually contain over half bacteria. The gut flora regulates your bowels to a great extent.

Constipation can mean too much meat. Not enough magnesium in diet. Or die off (dead bacteria doesn't move along so well).

[moonshine]

Originally Posted by JaneS

After "illegals" it would make sense that you wouldn't be constipated, as certain gut bugs would increase. For ex. my DS still cannot do raw fruit. Total mush appears. The stools actually contain over half bacteria. The gut flora regulates your bowels to a great extent.

Constipation can mean too much meat. Not enough magnesium in diet. Or die off (dead bacteria doesn't move along so well).

I am eating meat once a day. I am taking 60 mg of magnesium 3x a day. I am trying to drink as much water as possible. I am thinking that I need to be introducing more veggies and fruits more quickly. I cannot wait until I can do raw, as that simplify my life 10 fold.

I also need to find another yogurt making method. My oven doesn't stay warm enough with just the light on, and when I try to warm it up periodically, apparently I am letting it get too warm, as I get curds and whey way to often. There is a thermos/cooler method, right? Must investigate something.

[JaneS]

Have you tried using a higher watt bulb?

That is a very low amount of mag. I think over in the Nutrition/Immunology 101 thread the same amount of mag. as calcium was suggested for deficiencies, around 1000-1200 mg maybe?

[Pattyla]

Originally Posted by moonshine

I am eating meat once a day. I am taking 60 mg of magnesium 3x a day. I am trying to drink as much water as possible. I am thinking that I need to be introducing more veggies and fruits more quickly. I cannot wait until I can do raw, as that simplify my life 10 fold.

I also need to find another yogurt making method. My oven doesn't stay warm enough with just the light on, and when I try to warm it up periodically, apparently I am letting it get too warm, as I get curds and whey way to often. There is a thermos/cooler method, right? Must investigate something.

That isn't anywhere near enough mag.

I was making yogurt in my cooler for a while with a heating pad, untill my heating pad died. Just experiement with jars of water and a thermometer untill you find the setting that keeps it at 100ish for a long time. I found that two heating pads on medium worked well, but only that two. My other one didn't get the right temp (I can't now remember if it was too hot or too cold). I since have purchased 4 of the salton yogurt makers from Amazon. I can make a gallon at once and the price was right with free shipping! They fit a quart canning jar so I make it in that so that it only touches glass, not plastic.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Annikate

CAn yeast cause constipation?

DD1 has not had a bm going on 3 days now. Is this a yeast thing?

I'm trying to get her stool samples too. All she wants to eat is fruit, fruit, fruit and her new fave is raisins.

I think the sugar has her constipated. Does this make sense? She goes from mush to this every time. I don't get it.

I think constipation and diarrhea is a very individual thing and sometimes yeast/bacteria can cause both.

[Annikate]

moonshine, I could never quite get the oven method right either. Dh "built" me a yogurt maker out of a simple styrofoam cooler, cut a hole in the top and put a light fixture in there and screwed a small round 40 watt bulb into it. I keep the top slightly pushed back to maintain the proper temp but it works like a charm every time & it was really easy to make.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by jrose_lee

I found a doctor who knows about "leaky gut"! It is even listed as something they commonly treat Good...someone who can do some tests and knows what she's talking about. She's a chiropractor...I never would have guessed. Sounds like they do a lot more than crack backs, hmmmm? Now I just have to try to get an appointment...hope it isn't booked for months. Wish me luck!

That is awesome, good luck!!
Many chiros have treatment in nutrition, Gale Force has a good one, or two...

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by chlobo

Is there a forum like the enzymestuff.com forum that is geared towards adults & kids who haven't been diagnosed with austism? I'd like to read more but feel like the enzymestuff forums might not be for me.

Use that one, there are many adult issues they deal with, Karen specifically has said as such.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Logansmom

My son was 3 in June. He is highly allergic to eggs and he is a picky eater. How do kids who are picky eaters do on the SCD. I want to try this diet because my son has eczema(since 5 months old). He has been flared up for about a year and a half now and we are getting desperate. He cleared up briefly when we started giving him omega 3. He doesn't want to take a bath anymore or play in his pool because it hurts his legs. He wants to keep his footed pajamas on all day because when he takes them off he just sits and scratches.

I so feel for you and your little one!!
Keep up with the CLO, it really does make a difference.
There are a lot of parents with picky eaters on the Pecanbread Yahoo group.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by EBG

I'm using Digest Gold for myself and my older DD. IS that too strong? I would just use a tiny bit of course.
She has 2 bm-s yesterday, both times it was a hard little ball in her butt.
She ate a little prune-apple mix with yogurt this morning, hope it helps.
I tried avocado, she doesn't like it. So I'll up her CLO, try to give her some CO (is that OK for babes?) and lots of butter...

Yes CO is great b/c it does not require bile to digest.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by EBG

I tried bm in a sippy cup several times, she doesn't take it. I tried from a bottle, from a soft spout cup and her regular sippy cup. She only accepts water as a drink. I can try to mix it in food, but will it harm the milk? Lukewarm food of course.
Still trying to pump. Still trying to nurse. Been 9 days.

how are you doing today? BM is wonderful in food, the digestive enzymes will be very beneficial for fats and carbs especially. Just make sure the food is not above 118 degrees F.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by scubamama

And formula feeding WITH a leaky gut and intestinal flora imbalance leads to.... ?? (allergies/intolerances/sensitivities) or Prevacid, Zantac and no real diagnosis other than "colic"?? Not sure I agree with bf'ing being the culprit.

...

Not meaning to be argumentative, but I feel strongly defensive of breastfeeding. And I observed ds's issues very early~6 weeks neonate.

OH, I am rereading and seeming to understand that you mean the MOTHER's leaky gut causes the babies' intolerances. Hmmm....I see. Interesting theory. That could fit our experience also. But, imo, a pregnancy "leaky gut" probably contributes to all the intolerant/sensitive babies who are NOT breastfed. Or do you believe that the formula does in that case? I personally believe that the pregnancy variable is at least as strong as the postnatal experience, because of the documented immunity *benefit* for breastfed babies to have FEWER intolerances/allergies/sensitivities than formula fed babies.

But, we also have the genetic piece that dh's whole family is allergic/intolerant/sensitive GI-wise (and systemically) and most were formula fed. Thanks for the thought provoking discussion.

Pat

No, no, no... I'd never say FF instead!

Breastmilk is absolutely the ONLY choice to nourish a babe and should be continued as long as possible! I was stupid to wean my DS at 26 months!

I just mean that the mama's gut flora means everything in this case. It is a huge factor in the immune system that the child inherits.

Also I think one major factor that is not being touched on in this very interesting discussion ... nutritional deficiencies. That could be the most important factor effecting development in utero, and then the gut flora effects the child's immune system at birth, when their gut colonizes.

I hope MT will jump in with her link to Probiotics 101 post with studies on gut flora that she put up a couple weeks ago. I meant to link it to the Cheat Sheet but forgot. (Curse lack of Seach function for 800th time! )

Also nutrition is a major factor in whether you excrete or hold onto toxins so I think that also influences whether your child reacts to the toxins as well. The vitamin C glutathione connection for example. The more I read, the more I think that it's not necessarily that our world is more toxic ... it's that our world is more toxic AND we are eating much less nutrients than the diets we are designed to eat.

(Studies of native diets showed in many different societies they still consumed at least 10x the fat soluble vits. and 4x the minerals and water soluble vits as modern diets.)

I personally do not at all believe that allergies are genetic at all. Your DNA is influenced by your nutrition (and immune system that is passed on by your gut flora). More discussion of that in Allergies forum: "How Not to Have an Allergic Child" post.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by JaneS

I personally do not at all believe that allergies are genetic at all. Your DNA is influenced by your nutrition (and immune system that is passed on by your gut flora). More discussion of that in Allergies forum: "How Not to Have an Allergic Child" post.

Also another quick thing related to this... all allergies, asthma etc. have exploded in recent years. Therefore cannot be genetic b/c there is no such thing as a genetic epidemic.