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Healing the Gut Tribe ~~ July! - Page 24

post #461 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS


Bristol Stool Scale

The Bristol Stool Scale or Bristol Stool Chart is a medical aid designed to classify the faeces form into seven groups. It was developed by Heaton and Lewis at the University of Bristol and was first published in the journal Scand J Gastroenterol in 1997. Because the form of the stool depends on the time it spends in the colon, there is a correlation between the colonic transit time and the stool type.

The seven types of stool are:

Type 1: Separate hard lumps, like nuts (hard to pass)
Type 2: Sausage-shaped, but lumpy
Type 3: Like a sausage but with cracks on its surface
Type 4: Like a sausage or snake, smooth and soft
Type 5: Soft blobs with clear cut edges (passed easily)
Type 6: Fluffy pieces with ragged edges, a mushy stool
Type 7: Watery, no solid pieces (entirely liquid)
Types 1 and 2 indicate constipation, with 3 and 4 being the "ideal stools" especially the latter, as they are the easiest to pass. 5-7 being further tending towards diarrhoea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Stool_Scale
For weeks now I have had type 1, and if I am lucky, type 2. I had run out of SA, and got a new supply last night and took some. It is most likely what contributed to actually having some type 4 this morning. (I swear I can't discuss like this on any other thread. ) I am now prone towards some upset, as in nausea, which I am hoping is a good thing, re die-off? I am also feeling more tenderness all along my large intestine, not just one spot. I have no idea what that means, other than the inflammation is spreading.

I have been feeling really discouraged lately. My stomach reached some of the huge proportions (distention/bloat) that I had before starting anything to heal. I have also been back to my old tactics of self-mediating with food for my latest plunge into a further depression. Mostly SCD legal, if advanced, some not.
post #462 of 554
Interesting...I read that link - my probitic has L. Plantarum, the same stuff that's in their starter culture.

Thanks for the tip on getting everything covered ! I definitely don't want to go through what you did !

I just got home from buying some cabbage, quart jars, and pickling salt. (Can I use quart mason jars to do this ?) I found a sauerkraut recipe that doesn't need a starter. ( I forgot to buy the distilled water though - doh !)

This morning I put a little juice in a glass salad-dressing shaker and put a capsule in it and shook it up, put the lid on, and I'm watching it to see if it bubbles at some point. (mad scientist at work - LOL !)

Linda

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahariz
Recipe for Cultured Veggies
http://bodyecology.com/cveggies.php
Make sure the liquid covers the veggies. Someone made some for me once and the liquid did not cover the veggies-so aerobic bacteria, not justs anerobic bacteria, probably multiplied. Not knowing that this was any big deal, and even though the veggies smelled questionable, I ate some. Bad idea! I had horrible cramping and diarrhea for two days. So in trying to cure yeast, I had introduced bad bacteria into my system. Things definitely got worse for me after this happened.

Sometimes in the refrig section of health food stores you can find raw sauerkraut. Expensive, but at least you know it probably isn't contaminated.

Linda-I've wondered about just using a probiotic capsule too. Why do we need all these "starters?" My undergrad degree is in microbiology!
post #463 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by llp34
I just got home from buying some cabbage, quart jars, and pickling salt. (Can I use quart mason jars to do this ?) I found a sauerkraut recipe that doesn't need a starter. ( I forgot to buy the distilled water though - doh !)

Linda
Yes you can use quart mason jars. You don't need distilled water, just non-chlorinated water. You can boil tap water for 30 minutes to remove the chlorine.
post #464 of 554
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS
What yogurt starter are you using? None is surprising. Your poop is half bacteria. Some of it should be good. I dont' know much about e. coli.
I've been using regular Dannon all along. I never did try anything else but will now.

Guess I'll try yogourmet though.

BTW Jane, thanks so much for that link re: CDSA analysis - it is very helpful! Dunno why I didn't think to look there.
post #465 of 554
Oh, excellent, thank you ! I'm boiling water now

Also, my probiotic experiment is doing something - there is a small ring of little foamy bubbles gathering around the edge of the top of the liquid. I can't see the bubbles rising, but the foam is building up slowly. If nothing else, maybe this is a way to get more mileage out of the probitics I buy - let them multiply a bit in juice and then have DS drink the juice ? Would this be a bad thing to do ? I was thinking maybe it would be good for them to be more awake and active when he takes them, and that he might get more this way if they have multiplied in the juice ?

Of course I'll try it on myself before I give it to him.

Linda

Quote:
Originally Posted by caedmyn
Yes you can use quart mason jars. You don't need distilled water, just non-chlorinated water. You can boil tap water for 30 minutes to remove the chlorine.
post #466 of 554
Mind if I join in? I'm pretty new here.

I was doing SCD for 9 months very strictly until I was about 3 mths pg with DD. Then, I was getting pretty nauseated and eating complex carbs helped. I tolerated them pretty well while I was pg. Since delivery, I've sorta gone back to feeling badly again (food sensitivities, nerve pain...), and really need to go back on SCD but am having a hard time making the decision to do it again. It just takes so much time. Anyone modifying it a little (using bottled spices, etc.)? I know Elaine said not to. I know people who have severe reactions to things could have lifethreatening rxns if they don't follow it exactly, but I'm not one of those. Has anyone here successfully done any modifications of it?

Hi Patty! Thanks for telling me about this group!
post #467 of 554

food intolerances in 8 week old, exclusively breastfed, leaky gut?

I need help from those of you who are educated on all this stuff! My daughter is 8 weeks old, and so far I know she has an intolerance (through my bm) to dairy, soy, bananas, apples, and cantaloupe. She seems to handle wheat, brown rice, squash, sweet potatoes, carrots, green peas, basil, garlic, olive oil, turkey, pork, & chicken. That’s all I know since that’s as far as I’ve gotten on an elimination diet. She is (and always has been) exclusively breastfed and had no abx (or any kind of drug) at birth. I did eat a lot of dairy when I was pregnant and probably didn’t eat as many raw foods as I should have.

When I eat an offending food, she vomits large amounts with accompanying crying (this is no happy spit-up scene!) right after eating and every few minutes for up to an hour afterwards. We’re talking LOADS of laundry. She also acts very colicky and cries. Any mama could tell this a pained cry – not just normal fussing. At first I thought it was all just related to gulping air (and thus gas) due to an abundant supply and fast let down with my milk, but when that started correcting itself and the yakking continued, I figured something was wrong.

I have wandered through the healing the gut thread, read many of the links on the cheat sheet, looked at the enzyme and probiotic info, but I still have a few starter questions (needless to say, this is all very overwhelming and I’m trying to do my research without neglecting my 3 yr old and newborn!)

1)Just looking at myself and reading about symptoms, etc, I would not tend to say I have a leaky gut. But if dd has food intolerances and is exclusively bf, does that mean that I obviously do?
2)What do I need to be doing right now while she is still exclusively breastfed? I know to not give her (or me) abx, no vaccines, and keep exclusively breastfeeding, but what beyond that? It seems to me that a probiotic for me is a good idea. What about directly for the baby? My main goal is to fix this problem (if its fixable) as soon as possible for the baby’s sake.
3)I’ve read a lot about the enzymes, and that seems promising, but a little daunting. Should I do some of these (and are they even passed through bm?) or just eat more raw foods? If so, what is a good starter enzyme treatment?

TIA!
post #468 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinlivilou
When I eat an offending food, she vomits large amounts with accompanying crying (this is no happy spit-up scene!) right after eating and every few minutes for up to an hour afterwards. We’re talking LOADS of laundry. She also acts very colicky and cries. Any mama could tell this a pained cry – not just normal fussing. At first I thought it was all just related to gulping air (and thus gas) due to an abundant supply and fast let down with my milk, but when that started correcting itself and the yakking continued, I figured something was wrong.
Lovin, This sounds exactly like ds at exactly that age. The pained spit ups ONLY with offending food, and severe crying until I could burp the gas away did go away when I ate a pure diet. So did the spit up. I did find that I could burp a lot of the gas free by applying pressure directly to his abdomen either with my thigh and patting his back very vigorously (supporting head upright, of course), or placing him up high with his belly on my shoulder and burping hard. His crying would be so severe, that I was nearly in tears myself wanting to do *something* for his obvious pain.

I too ate a lot of dairy in pregnancy, I really believe this is a variable.
As we are exposed to an allergen our immune system becomes more and more reactive to it. BTW, I wonder if you have many mercury fillings in your teeth? We seem to all believe that this is a huge variable.

The ladies here can help with some additional ideas like Vit. C, CLO, CO, Magnesium to maximize your nutrition too. Have you tried "Gripe Water" for the baby? It really helped when I accidently ate something new or offending. Carrying ds in the sling helped to keep him upright and apply pressure to his abdomen also.

I'll just mention that the offending foods increased over time. Some that were ok early on (it seemed), became issues. Specifically all corn products, soy, WHEAT, tomatoes, onions, cabbage family, cinnammon (!), garlic, etc. You might continue to avoid the common intolerances in advance of symptoms. I believe that is a huge variable in how well ds was able to overcome the intolerances. I identified the culprit foods very early and didn't introduce them back to either of our diets until well after age two when his immune system was more fully developed. Extended nursing, no vaccines and no anx, of course. Now our son can eat most all of these foods without issue. The SCD is reported to address the underlying gut leakage so that all foods are tolerated eventually. We just did the elimination diet, I hadn't heard of SCD then. Ds is 5 now.

Best wishes. It is hard.

Pat
post #469 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annikate
I've been using regular Dannon all along. I never did try anything else but will now.

Guess I'll try yogourmet though.

BTW Jane, thanks so much for that link re: CDSA analysis - it is very helpful! Dunno why I didn't think to look there.
I don't think the problem is dannon if you are getting super tart yogurt at end of 24h. I was just curious if you were using the l. casei starter (ProGurt). Although I'm sure diff. companies use diff. strains though now that I think of it.

YW re: link. Let me know if it sparks any thoughts.

boy do I *hate* squishing poop in those little vials!!!!!

And dontcha know DS's poop has been solid all week so we have to start all over again b/c I opted not to do the laxative. Gave him applesauce and strawberries today, that should do it.
post #470 of 554
Anyone have a vote on a fruit to try? I'm so sick of no fruit.

So far watermellon was a bad choice.

As was either cherries or rasberries (not sure which one).

The bananas actually didn't seem to be bad but then that was a really hard day so perhaps the fruit contributed and I missed it.

Ideas???

Of course even w/o fruit we are having a very 2 year old time of it lately so who knows if I'll even be able to tell a reaction from a normal day. :

I think I have the menu planned for next week. Wish me luck.
post #471 of 554
I almost forgot to mention.

I can take enzymes again!!!

I try them every couple of weeks and they always have given me a stomach ache but not today. I'm so excited!!!
post #472 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by scubamama
Lovin, This sounds exactly like ds at exactly that age. The pained spit ups ONLY with offending food, and severe crying until I could burp the gas away did go away when I ate a pure diet. So did the spit up. I did find that I could burp a lot of the gas free by applying pressure directly to his abdomen either with my thigh and patting his back very vigorously (supporting head upright, of course), or placing him up high with his belly on my shoulder and burping hard. His crying would be so severe, that I was nearly in tears myself wanting to do *something* for his obvious pain.

I too ate a lot of dairy in pregnancy, I really believe this is a variable.
As we are exposed to an allergen our immune system becomes more and more reactive to it. BTW, I wonder if you have many mercury fillings in your teeth? We seem to all believe that this is a huge variable.

The ladies here can help with some additional ideas like Vit. C, CLO, CO, Magnesium to maximize your nutrition too. Have you tried "Gripe Water" for the baby? It really helped when I accidently ate something new or offending. Carrying ds in the sling helped to keep him upright and apply pressure to his abdomen also.

I'll just mention that the offending foods increased over time. Some that were ok early on (it seemed), became issues. Specifically all corn products, soy, WHEAT, tomatoes, onions, cabbage family, cinnammon (!), garlic, etc. You might continue to avoid the common intolerances in advance of symptoms. I believe that is a huge variable in how well ds was able to overcome the intolerances. I identified the culprit foods very early and didn't introduce them back to either of our diets until well after age two when his immune system was more fully developed. Extended nursing, no vaccines and no anx, of course. Now our son can eat most all of these foods without issue. The SCD is reported to address the underlying gut leakage so that all foods are tolerated eventually. We just did the elimination diet, I hadn't heard of SCD then. Ds is 5 now.

Best wishes. It is hard.

Pat
Thanks. Luckily, I have no mercury fillings (I only have one filling, and it's not mercury). Your gas relieving techniques pretty much describe our nightly routine! I've tried gripe water, and it seems to help some, but not tremendously. Thanks for the heads up about avoiding other potential allergens. It's just so dang hard with so few foods to eat! I haven't finished my research on SCD, but so far I'm not seeing how to do it with her dairy intolerance. I know you can technically eat offending foods while healing the gut, but I honestly don't think I can take the pain that it causes dd.

thanks for the info about your kiddo - it gives me hope that this isn't a forever thing!
post #473 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovinLiviLou
Thanks. Luckily, I have no mercury fillings (I only have one filling, and it's not mercury). Your gas relieving techniques pretty much describe our nightly routine! I've tried gripe water, and it seems to help some, but not tremendously. Thanks for the heads up about avoiding other potential allergens. It's just so dang hard with so few foods to eat! I haven't finished my research on SCD, but so far I'm not seeing how to do it with her dairy intolerance. I know you can technically eat offending foods while healing the gut, but I honestly don't think I can take the pain that it causes dd.

thanks for the info about your kiddo - it gives me hope that this isn't a forever thing!
Sorry about the LO having such a hard time. We had problems with spitting up and I kept asking the doctor if it was a normal amount of spit up because DS was not complaining about it and did not seem in pain. The dr said it was normal : . I was on SCD for about a week when ds all but stopped spitting up. Now he spits up when I eat a food that I don't digest well (adding a food too early). He has eczema flair ups to foods that he is sensitive to (most fruit so far.) You can do SCD without dairy, although you may find that since the dairy foods you eat do not have lactose they may not bother your DD. SCD is worth a try. Enzymes could also help here is a link to the low and slow method of starting enzymes:
http://www.enzymestuff.com/basicsdosing.htm#5

Also there are some allergens in foods (ie birch pollen allergy) that are minimized when the offending food is cooked. Cooked foods are also easier for the body to digest.
post #474 of 554
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS
boy do I *hate* squishing poop in those little vials!!!!!
Oh man, the other night all I dreamed about was poop tests and hair tests. I really am : s
post #475 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovinLiviLou
I haven't finished my research on SCD, but so far I'm not seeing how to do it with her dairy intolerance. I know you can technically eat offending foods while healing the gut, but I honestly don't think I can take the pain that it causes dd.
Have you tried raw goat milk? My older DS & I cannot tolerate cow milk whatsoever (cramping, stomach upset, constant & extreme congestion, etc) but we have no issue at all w/goat milk.

hth
post #476 of 554
I have some supplements that I am not going to use anymore. I hate to just throw them away if someone else wants them, especially since I know how expensive these diets/supplements are. They have all been opened, but if someone wants them, they are free for shipping (DH says I have to ask for shipping costs). I have NOW brand MSM powder (8 oz bottle, roughly 1/4 remaining), NOW brand L-glutamine 1000 mg capsules (120 ct, roughly 1/2 remaining), NOW brand zinc picolinate 50 mg capsules (60 ct, roughly 1/3 remaining), and Liquimin's Trace Minerals ionic zinc liquid (this one is almost full--apparently I am not zinc deficient as it tastes so nasty I could not get it down). If anyone's interested, let me know...

ETA They're all taken
post #477 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovinLiviLou
Thanks. Luckily, I have no mercury fillings (I only have one filling, and it's not mercury).
Ok, you are blowing our theory! Although, I am very glad for you not to have the mercury exposure. I probably did eat some tuna (considered high in mercury) while pregnant, maybe, I think, I am not certain. Which could be another variable for us.

Quote:
Your gas relieving techniques pretty much describe our nightly routine!
Yes, it is so stressful for your baby to be in pain.


Quote:
I've tried gripe water, and it seems to help some, but not tremendously.
There is some homeopathy for specific allergens too. For wheat, dairy, grass, pollens, etc. My friend used them when her children had food intolerances and it helped with the symptoms. I don't know the name of it. I'll try to find out. We are all on classical homeopathy, I believe that is a big part of ds's tolerance to foods too. I honestly don't know if it is all elimination diet or mostly homeopathy or the combo.



Quote:
Thanks for the heads up about avoiding other potential allergens. It's just so dang hard with so few foods to eat! I haven't finished my research on SCD, but so far I'm not seeing how to do it with her dairy intolerance. I know you can technically eat offending foods while healing the gut, but I honestly don't think I can take the pain that it causes dd.
Can you add salmon? I believe fish is allowed on SCD. Wild Alaskan salmon (not farm raised) is supposed to be low risk of mercury and it is high in essential fatty acids. I lived on salmon for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Or eggs? I would hard boil them and peel them and have them in a baggie for middle of the night snacks. Egg salad, chicken salad, salmon salad. I found that eating protein was less of an issue than eating enough fats and calories. (I hope I didn't miss that you are vegan.) We use rice milk as a substitute. The Rice Dream milk substitute (Vanilla Enriched) is tolerable and invisible in recipes. But, probably illegal SCD??? Almond milk is another option. Goat's milk is possible too. We like it, but ds had issues with it until about age 3-4. It is very similar in the protein structure to dairy. Of course, avoid soy. I believe that smoothies are the easiest way to add fat calories (w/flax and coconut oils). And eating nut butters adds calories. I just eat a tablespoon of nut butter whenever I am hungry. That is quick and easy. (although I'd avoid peanut products until after age 2, minimum!!) And avacados are high in fat, as is coconut.

Quote:
thanks for the info about your kiddo - it gives me hope that this isn't a forever thing!
It won't last forever. Her immune system will get stronger with the avoidance of the allergens and breastfeeding is critical.

Best wishes, Pat
post #478 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annikate
She has lots of e.coli bacteria (under beneficial bacteria) so that's good - has enough bifidobacerium but NO lactobacillus species AT ALL. What do I do about that? Shouldn't the 24 hour yogurt be giving her this too?????

I'm so confused. :

Oh and no for the yeast. Well, actually borderline as a "Potential Pathogen" so I'm guessing that means we've gotten it under control somewhat.
I had a CDSA a few years back and it came back with all sorts of nasties. I'm in the throes of a brand new gut/genito-urinary crisis after being in something of a remission throughout my pregnancy and one year post partum (dd is almost 3 now) so I'm trying to get back into the swing of dietary eliminations and gut healing. It's no easy trip, I'll tell you, after thinking I was forever cured only to find out I'm back where to square one.
Anyhow, I used Trent Nichols for my CDSA and subsequent protocol. He's a gasteroenterologist who does phone consults, which is nice because you don't need to be a scientist to desipher your results. He co-authored an amazing book called Optimal Digestion and is a firm believer in Leaky Gut, food intolerances, etc. etc.

Annikate, IMO any pathogenic yeast regardless of amount is not right. Plus, your dd is lacking any lactobacillus which means that her ecosystem is not balanced. Without that balance all sorts of bacteria and yeast can become a problem. If this is correct, she's going to need more intervention than supplementary probiotics. I apologize for jumping in without knowing much background but I couldn't help but post since I can totally relate to feeling so overwhelmed by all of this. It's me who's going through this (not my dd, thank goodness) so I can only imagine how much harder it would be to see my sweet lovey suffer. Sending healing vibes your way. And if you or anyone else has further questions about Dr. Nichols or anything else - just say the word.
post #479 of 554
Thread Starter 
Okay, I misplaced my copy of BTVC WEEKS ago and can't find it and cannot find this on the pecanbread site either:

What type of strain DOESN'T the 24 hour yogurt contain? I forget.

I'm wondering if this could be why dd has NO lactobacillus.?????
post #480 of 554
Thread Starter 
ericaz - thanks for the info on that doctor. I like anyone who will do phone consults.

I actually happened upon this healing process in January when researching dd2's issues (a whole other story). I started healing myself, working on dd2 who wasn't even eating solids yet and now I'm on to healing dd1.

Whew! It's tough sometimes. Just when I think I have one thing figured out, it's on to something (or somebody else.) My whole family is an experiment. (Including dh.)
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