Episiotomy FGM in disguise- a thought I had yesterday - Page 3

[Mama Poot]

Originally Posted by A&A

I agree that a lot of it is subconscious.

If you were to take a survey, I bet you'd find that many cut-happy doctors who perform epis have high circ rates, as well.

Oooh wow I wonder if such a survey could ever be done ( ethically anyways ). Well, I suppose one way to do it is just to do a general survey asking if they are circ'd or not, then do a separate survey asking their episiotomy rate ( my previous OB's rate was less than 10%-so he claimed. I still got one anyways.... ) Then put the two together... Hmmm....

[AntoninBeGonin]

Originally Posted by tireesix

I gave birth to my first in an NHS hospital. I was unnecessarily induced etc etc etc. I refused an epi, so the Ob treated me like poo. He was russian. I still suffer to this day from PTSD, he didn't fix me properly after the birth (lets just say the way the baby was born resulted in a tear) which resulted in me being unable to have sex without pain and caused further problems down the line (I can now have sex without pain (kinda) but now cannot poo without pain).

Some episiotomies are still unnecessarily performed over here, unnecessary inductions, sections etc etc etc. Women are abused daily in maternity hospitals.

Close to tears here.

I am 25, barely able to have sexual relations with my DH because of what happened.

Where am I going with this, I dunno. I hate circumcision with a passion, vulnerable babies being circed without anaesthetic for no reason, it sickens me. So does the routine abuse of pregnant, labouring women.

I think its been over the past year or so that its becoming recognised just how many women are suffering from PTSD after suffering traumatic births in hospital, whether they be American or NHS hospitals.

I just hate what Docs do to us, hate it.

Pointless post really..... Sorry.........

And I truely believe that my Ob that time, did what he did, behaved the way he did to me simply because I denied him the chance to cut me.

ETA. DH hates to remember the day DD1 was born, if I try and talk about it he stomps off close to tears............ My relationship with DD1 is strained, no matter how hard I try, there is something in the way but I love her so much and it hurts. I want to have a proper relationship with my DH and I try and can't............. I did manage to painfully conceive again and had DD2 at home though.

You poor sweetie Just curious, have you and your Dh tried joint counseling yet? It sounds like you could really use a sympathetic and impartial person to listen to you in real life.

~Nay

[A&A]

Originally Posted by Mama Poot

Oooh wow I wonder if such a survey could ever be done ( ethically anyways ). Well, I suppose one way to do it is just to do a general survey asking if they are circ'd or not, then do a separate survey asking their episiotomy rate ( my previous OB's rate was less than 10%-so he claimed. I still got one anyways.... ) Then put the two together... Hmmm....

No, when I said "high circ rate" I meant that they perform a lot of circs, not necessarily that they are circ'd (although that wouldn't surprise me, either.) But I think there's a definite correlation between doctors who perform lots of epis and those same docs performing lots of circs. They just like to cut genitalia.

[Revamp]

Originally Posted by pdx.mothernurture

Any idea what those 'general signs' were, just out of curiosity? I'm not discounting the possibility that the episiotomy was necessary...I guess I'm especially questioning it since you were premature. How much did you weigh at birth? Had your mother given birth to any other brothers/sisters previously. Was your birth emergent enough that forcepts or suction were used? Of course you don't have to answer if you don't want to, those are just some questions that came to mind.

I was highly skinny at birth apparently, although I find that slightly hard to believe now.

She had had my brother and daughter previously, as I mentioned neither of them required cutting and neither did my little sister five years later.

They were planning on using forceps but they proved superfluous.

[frenchie]

Originally Posted by A&A

No, when I said "high circ rate" I meant that they perform a lot of circs, not necessarily that they are circ'd (although that wouldn't surprise me, either.) But I think there's a definite correlation between doctors who perform lots of epis and those same docs performing lots of circs. They just like to cut genitalia.

My OB is against circ, but routinely does epis...and when I asked for a pressure epi (if neccessary) in my birth, he said no. He admitted that he does epis purely for his OWN convenience. This was like 2 weeks prior to my dues date. I was SO upset, and wishing that I'd get the Dr. on call, rather than him.
I DID get the Dr. on call, and he agreed to a pressure epi if neccessary, but alas, I had an emergency c-section.
Anyhow....I think the whole idea of "payback" is an interesting one, but I don't see any merit to it.

[LoveChild421]

Originally Posted by phatchristy

In all this talk I am surprised nobody mentioned the "extra stitch phenomenon" that some docs do in repairing episiotomies/tears to make things tighter on pupose for the sexual enjoymemt of the man : . There is an aspect there of sexual power/dominance as well.

true. If Dr.s had any understanding of female sexual anatomy (the fact that it's the muscle not the skin which determines how "tight" the vagina is, and that by stitching the skin too tight it only serves to cause discomfort) they would never have started doing that. I see the similarity with most doctors being totally ignorant about the functions of the foreskin- they see it as useless at best and a cause of infection and other myths at worse because they lack a basic biological understanding...or do they? I've always wondered if it was simply that or something deeper- such as the subconscious anger you suggested.

[MommytoB]

Hmm , I had a big epistomy only because 2 reason's I couldn't push my son out and the vacumm thing wouldn't have fit. My son was a vacumm assisted delivering I think there were some 'decelerations in his heart rate so that was the 'reason' for the extra push. I did sign the epistomy form to get one if needed to be. I have had issues with the episotomy effects like certain places feel numb or too tight.

[trmpetplaya]

A friend of mine (had her baby in the early 80s - so her daughter is a little older than I am) was told that she had to have the episiotomy because she didn't dilate enough AND her doctor asked her (now) ex-husband if he wanted an extra stitch and the ex said YES so she's had all kinds of problems since then... makes me so She had her dd in a military hospital.

love and peace.

[baybee]

I practised midwifery and attended more than 1000 homebirths. In those 1000 births I did 3 (three) episiotomies. That's a sensible rate that I am very proud of. The intact perineum has the very important job of squeezing all the mucous out of the baby's chest as the baby slides over it. That last squeeze on the perineum results in a baby that is ready to breathe and needs no suctioning.
Baybee

[LadyMarmalade]

I view unnecessary episiotomies as a violation, definitely. Mine was unnecessary and it took me a long time to heal - both physically and emotionally - afterwards. Some time ago (sucks without the search function) Sarah (I can't remember her username) posted her Vagina Monologue about episiotomy being a birthrape. It was very powerful. I'd love to be able to find the link.

[LadyMarmalade]

PS Revamp, I enjoy and appreciate your posts here Chin up!

[Revamp]

Originally Posted by LadyMarmalade

PS Revamp, I enjoy and appreciate your posts here Chin up!

Thank you!

[TigerTail]

You know, my epi was hideous (and like poor tireesix, I believe it was revenge from a dr, but about my planned uc- he was horrible, & I'll never forget how he grinned while cutting), completely unindicated, & the healing period was atrocious.

On my third birth, my gracious OB that had been requested not to cut, refrained, & I tore- not the worst (and certainly not as deep as the previous cut!), but not a slight tear either, & I healed very well, very quickly.

No one will ever know exactly what your circumstances were, Revamp, & I certainly didn't mean to imply it might not have been necessary- I was just clarifying about the CP. (Although the PP's- Jen?- comment that in an actual emergency a c-sec is warranted before an episiotomy- it doesn't save time so much as a less-easy-to-repair tear).

[pdx.mothernurture]

Originally Posted by trmpetplaya

A friend of mine (had her baby in the early 80s - so her daughter is a little older than I am) was told that she had to have the episiotomy because she didn't dilate enough AND her doctor asked her (now) ex-husband if he wanted an extra stitch and the ex said YES so she's had all kinds of problems since then... makes me so She had her dd in a military hospital.

love and peace.

OMG, that's outrageous.

Cervix=Dilation
Perineum=Stretching during crowning.

They're too completely separate structures-an episiotomy doesn't 'dilate' women. Gah.

I think it's horrific that extra stitching for the man's benefit was even offered, but to ask HIM if HE wanted it? That's so offensive/violating I'm not even sure I have words to express how angry it makes me.

Jen

[tireesix]

Just like to point out that I didn't have an episiotomy in the end BUT after I said no to an episiotomy, his behaviour changed towards me. He became mean, he didn't sew me up properly, he was really rough when stitching, ignored me requests for further pain relief during stitching, blamed me for tearing (rather than the fact I was in the stranded beetle position despite requesting not to be). To add insult to injury, he shoved a suppository up my bottom without asking me or warning me and just walked off (and let me tell you now, he was very rough with that)..........

When he first walked in he smiled and introduced himself, he seemes alright and I kinda relaxed a little. The moment I said no to an episiotomy everything changed. Why is that???? I didn't NEED a ventouse anyway, baby was crowning. They went and did it anyway........

I will also say that it isn't just maternity that bad things happen, we know about RIC in America (and even scalpel happy circumcision doctors over here), we have the elderly being treated like crap in hospitals over here, I have witnessed it first hand, we have those with learning disabilities etc being abused etc etc etc..... It seems to me, that some of the health care professionals aren't in the job to care, but to cause pain. They like the power they have.

What causes someone to feel the need to starve a granny, slice up a woman, hack bits of babies and beat up someone with learning disabilities and why the hell are they allowed to continue in their jobs???

[TigerTail]

i know, sorry, i didn't mean to sound confused ; i read it. but the whole p.o.'d dr thing sounded familiar.

it does suck, abuse of power, doesn't it?

[Paper-Bag-Princess]

Originally Posted by pdx.mothernurture

OMG, that's outrageous.

Cervix=Dilation
Perineum=Stretching during crowning.

They're too completely separate structures-an episiotomy doesn't 'dilate' women. Gah.

I think it's horrific that extra stitching for the man's benefit was even offered, but to ask HIM if HE wanted it? That's so offensive/violating I'm not even sure I have words to express how angry it makes me.

Jen

Jen, you're not the only one. I read that part twice! : How absolutely flip and dismissive that doctor was to ask the person who was not experiencing labour and delivery, if he wanted an extra stitch?: Blech. WTF? and he said yes? Man, the stupidity and arrogance of people never ceases to amaze me.:

[kldliam]

i think it's a darn good theory!

if fems are consenting to the mass genital cutting of males...it seems only fair and makes sense that they should cut us back when the opportunity presents itself.
I consider circ to be a form of rape against a child. They strap him down and assault him sexually. I suppose the rape that 'we' as women must endure by victims of circ, might be construed as somewhat justifiable.

[trmpetplaya]

Originally Posted by pdx.mothernurture

OMG, that's outrageous.

Cervix=Dilation
Perineum=Stretching during crowning.

They're too completely separate structures-an episiotomy doesn't 'dilate' women. Gah.

I think it's horrific that extra stitching for the man's benefit was even offered, but to ask HIM if HE wanted it? That's so offensive/violating I'm not even sure I have words to express how angry it makes me.

Jen

She's well past child-bearing age so I didn't have the heart to explain that dilation would have nothing to do with an episiotomy Maybe I should... She does want me to talk to her daughter before any grandchildren come along though Mostly because of EC, but I'll mention labour interventions too.

love and peace.

[christifav]

I won't get into the nasty details of my birthstory here, but I told the "OB on call" SEVERAL times that I didn't want to get cut. He kept insisting that he would probably have to. Finally my husband asserted that "WE do not want an episiotomy". The dr sighed and then dropped the topic after that.

Boy that PISSED ME OFF that he listened to my husband but not to me.

Apparently I am not capable of deciding for myself that I do not want MY genitals cut, but I would be the only one whose consent would be required for my son to get mutilated.

Does that make sense to ANYONE?????