Healing from birth trauma for mom and babe

[Pattyla]

I'm not really sure where the right place is to put this.

We had a very traumatic birth the culminated in my dd being in the nicu for 4 days and not being held or bfed for the first 36 hours of her life.

I have always thought that some of her "issues" come from this but figured time will heal them.

Here we are 2.5 years later still trying to heal.

Are there any resources for this? Any ideas? We have tried lots of alternative medicine but so far it hasn't done much for us. I'm thinking like therapy either stuff I can do myself or a therapist who can help us through it but I'm afraid that if I go to a traditional therapist they will tell me I need to leave my dd to cio and wean her and that will solve all our problems. I have heard that enough from medical professionals, I don't need to pay to hear it from a therapist too.

Anyhow. If this isn't the right place for this could someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks.

[pigpokey]

Can you tell us more about what kinds of issues you and your daughter are facing? If the search function was available I'd have gone to read your other posts.

If you think it has affected her ability to bond to you securely and you to her, maybe look at the resources used by adoptive parents?

I hope to hear more about your journey.

[Pattyla]

I think that it mainly makes dd fear abandonment and not know how to filter overstimulation.
She was abandoned at birth (against my wishes) and then put into a loud, beeping, buzzing, bright, people running arround place w/o much touch for 4 days. She has always coped with overstimulation by taking it all in at the time and then screaming about it later. She is an extrovert and does well with other children but untill she was 18 months old she couldn't be left with anyone. Now she has some real stranger anxiety and although she transitions to the church nursery easily by the time she gets back to us 45 min later she is dying to reconnect and nurse.

We are trying to night wean her and the first attempt made her a miserable wreck. I had my dh deal with her since she rarely accepts anything but nursing from me for comfort and she clearly felt abandoned by me and behaved like a drowing person clinging to me for the next few days. When i just talked to her about moving back to her own bed after she night nurses she got very upset. I would be happy to touch her all night long but I am at the end of my rope with exhaustion from nursing her all night every night for the past 2.5 years.

I think that this goes back to that early seperation. Her nursing has never moved beyond the n/b need to nurse all the time thing. She nurses 12 to 15x every 24 hours, on a normal day. On a bad day I don't know how high that count goes. And these aren't 3 second pop on and off things you hear about toddlers doing. This is full, nurse till the let down, take the other side too nursing sessions. She eats a lot of other food. It isn't about the nutrition of it. She happily eats a wide variety of solid foods and drinks plenty of water as well. It isn't unusual for her to eat 2-3 hot dogs in a session for example. (no bun and organic turkey ) and to also eat several servings of broccoli and other foods all at the same meal. She is an eater. I really think it is just (at least in part) not trusting that I will be there for her if she doesn't make sure by the constant nursing. That ties us together and it makes sure that I am never gone from her for very long. (she never took bm from anything but my bbs).

Does that help?

[natashaccat]

Cranial Sacral therapy? I know that you mentioned that you'd tried some alternative therabies but I just thought I'd ask, JIC, because this really helped me heal from my difficult birth.

[Pattyla]

DD had one session of cranial right after the birth (5 days old) and has had it once a week for the past 3 weeks. It doesn't seem to be making any difference so far. I have done it in the past myself and been amazed at the healing I felt from just one session so I'm not sure if this practitioner (a different one) isn't as skilled or if it isn't addressing the issue or if it is just peeling off layers and it hasn't gone deep enough for dd to show signs of improvement yet.

[pigpokey]

Sigh, I don't have any really good ideas. She sounds like a more extreme version of my daughter. Sure, we had a traumatic birth and were separated during the golden hour and I don't think she looked at me until the next day, but nothing like a NICU type stay; more like a hospital birth I would guess. I tend to think of my daughter more as it being her personality, but I don't know.

[natashaccat]

Is is possible that there is something else entirely going on? Have you considered taking her (and possible yourself since you are still nursing so much) into a natropath for some bloodwork just be to sure that there isn't anything physically out of ballance? I know that sometimes things like food sensitivities and/or vitamin deficiencies can cause stress and poor sleep reactions in children.

My dd was also seperated from me after birth too. I was able to hold her for a few hours each day and BF her most of the time. I can sure understand how difficult it can be to recover from birth trauma. My dd seems to have healed quickly the experience thank goodness but it took me much longer.

We have a chiropractor in our town who specializes in birth and birth trauma. It's a long didstance phone call but perhaps if you called and asked to leave a msg with Dr. Basquin she might be able to give you some ideas?

Charisse Basquin, DC
Fairbanks Chiropractic Clinic
728 Gaffney RD
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
Phone: [phone]

[Pattyla]

Thanks for the replies.

Natashaccat- This is actually after spending a few months trying to address physical reasons for her issues. We are following a special diet to get rid of the yeast she has had probably since birth. After some initial sucess with her going to sleep easier/sleeping longer we are pretty much back where we started (except that getting her down for her nap is rarely a struggle anymore instead of being a daily struggle). I am now wondering if there is something else going on and that brings me back to her birth (the source of her yeast too I'm sure). When I was pg with her I read that article about crying in arms that Mothering ran a few years ago. Once she was born I really felt like it applied to us and tried to support her as she worked through the trauma of her birth, but never really felt like she did. Every few months I find myself wondering how much of what we struggle with today is rooted in that inital seperation and trauma she went through in her first moments after birth (being roughly suctioned for meconium by a woman who clearly thought little of our natural birth and apparent h/b transfer.) And then after all of that to not even be held by her own mother for 36 hours after her birth. I know I have some trauma still in me that I haven't worked through but I'm getting there. I just have no idea how to facilitate it for her.

We are seeing a naturopath who suggested some kind of theraputic bath for her. She is going to check into the specifics of it since it isn't something she normally does but she thinks it may be a key for dd.

We are also seeing a new chiro on Monday that supposedly has worked magic on kids with sleeping issues in the past. We'll see if she can do anything for us or not.

[natashaccat]

Well I think that mama's are generally right when it comes to knowing what's wrong with their children and I bet you've probably explored this as well, but is she meeting all of her social-developmental milestones? Is she exceeding any of her developmental milestone, exceptionally early talker, etc?

I've worked quite a bit with kids with special needs and coming from that background I'm really concerned by your mention of her difficulty with filtering out overstimulation. While this isn't the case for most high needs babies and toddlers, sometimes the types of behaviors that you describe can be an early sign that something is developmentally out of sync.

Is there an infant learning specialist in your town? I know that this is often a free service provided by the school distric or public health department. I would suggest giving them a call for a screening just to rule out this possibility. On the off chance that there is something developmentally out of sync, early intervention can play a huge role in helping you all achieve family harmony.

Also be sure that your own needs are being met as best you can during this difficult time KWIM? I know that sleep is probably a lost cause right now but try as best you can to get plenty of protien and calcium and magnesium and enough to eat overall.

Do you and your dd have access to a relatively warm indoor pool for some swimming time? Water is so threaputic and I know that me dd sure sleeps better after a swim. My dd was a horrible sleeper until about two, which is perhaps coincidentally, when we started taking her swimming most evenings.

[saharasky]

Hi Patty.

You and I ...and our children have quite a bit in common.

Traumatic birth ...HB transfer ... NICU stay (we were there for 10 days initially and I wasn't 'allowed' to touch my son for the first three ... I was told I was being 'selfish' ...that he needed to be left alone so he could heal because human contact was too exhausting ...no such thing as kangaroo care around here!!)) ... traumatic seperation and subsequent severe seperation anxiety in our babies.

I'm not sure what I can do about it except hold him until he learns that I can be trusted (I may wind up with an 18 year old in a sling at this rate though :P ).

... just remember that no matter how hard it is 'this too shall pass' ...she won't stay attached to your breasts forever ...but she will so long as that's what she needs from you. It's tough though I totally understand ...my daughter now four was an around the clock nurser and still would be if I hadn't stopped her (with much guilt and trepidation) on her fourth birthday ... we talked about it for months first ...so much for child led weaning though ...I still feel guilty for it ...but I was going insane ...literally ...serious PPD as a result of all the birth trauma with my son ...lack of suport from hubby etc...

If you'd like to chat feel free to pm me anytime.

[runes]

you've written that dd has seen a cst, is this therapist specializing in birth trauma by any chance? if not, you might want to find someone that does. i can ask our cst for a lead in your area, as she facilitates trainings.

we had a traumatic birth, too. hb transfer...prolonged pushing...forceps dd was in the nicu for only an hour but i know that affected us, but i think we've worked through a lot of the emotional trauma about the birth through cst.

hugs, mama.

[Pattyla]

The woman doing cst does not specalize in birth trauma. I don't know the first thing about finding one who does.

I would take dd to a pool to swim but her candidia will go crazy with the chlorine so no pools for us. At least untill that is fixed.

DD meets her milestones way ahead of schedule as a rule. She has a huge vocabulary (like 5000 words or more), is very coordinated, she was walking at 9 months old, she climbs really well, she is good with social situations, still a 2 year old but really working on learning how to make friends right now. She knows some numbers and letters by sight. Can sing several songs all the way through. Loves to sit and listen to very long books, books I would expect to read to 5 year olds. (I am a former Montessori Teacher so I have a lot of experience with 3-5 year olds). Many people mistake her for a 4 year old. She is also tall and has very long hair for her age so that doesn't hurt the impression. She is still struggling with learning her colors though I think she finally has them down. People forget how young she is untill something like not knowing blue comes up.

saharasky- When I asked about Kangaroo care I was told that dd didn't qualify. I guess because she wasn't a premie. Yes my 9 lb 9 oz dd was in the nicu. Seems strange. They didn't know what to do with her. The other parents in there were amazed. I'm so sorry you had to go through that with your ds. It just breaks my heart to hear that anyone else has gone through anything even similar to what we went through.

[natashaccat]

Originally Posted by Pattyla

DD meets her milestones way ahead of schedule as a rule. She has a huge vocabulary (like 5000 words or more), is very coordinated, she was walking at 9 months old, she climbs really well, she is good with social situations, still a 2 year old but really working on learning how to make friends right now. She knows some numbers and letters by sight. Can sing several songs all the way through. Loves to sit and listen to very long books, books I would expect to read to 5 year olds. (I am a former Montessori Teacher so I have a lot of experience with 3-5 year olds). Many people mistake her for a 4 year old. She is also tall and has very long hair for her age so that doesn't hurt the impression. She is still struggling with learning her colors though I think she finally has them down. People forget how young she is untill something like not knowing blue comes up.

You know, I really think that you might get some insight from the special needs board here at MDC or from an infant learning specialist. It's really common for kids who meet cetrain developmental milestone exceptionally early to have difficulty mentally assimilating the info. As you describe in your dd, they have difficulty filtering "overstimulation." I hate to use the label "gifted" because people tend to get into debates over the use of the term but for lack of a better word, it is quite common for "gifted" children to develop unevenly and need more reassurance and support from their parents than their peers.

I can't think of a good example for a 2 yo but imagine a 3 yo who is able to read the text of newspaper article, they know the words and bascially understand the content but don't have the life experience to put it all in perspective and digest it appropriately.

Does make sense? I guess what I'm trying to say is that although you are likely to be perfectly correct in thinking that your dd needs to heal from her birth, there may also be other developmental things going on that could be manifesting themselves as the behaviors that you describe. This is where a good infant learning specialist can really help.

In anycase, I know that there are lots of really knowlagable mamas on the MDC Special Needs board that you give you some links to more specific infomation on gifted children.

I dunno, maybe I'm just being overly cautious because of my own special needs background, I see that you have worked with plenty of 3-5 yo so maybe you've already thought of this and ruled it out?

[Pattyla]

Natashaccat- While you may be correct that she is somewhat out of sync (compared to other kids I have seen who are out of sync though you have to dig pretty deep to find much of anything) but if so she has been since birth. When she was just 6 weeks old I figured out that her evening screaming jags were related to overstimulation durring the day. To keep my sanity I strictly limited the time we spent away from home to 1 place a day and never walmart. Even if I needed to go to two stores that were side by side I would have to do them on different days becasue that was too much for dd. She never knew how to go to sleep, or even just retreat into the sling and nurse and block out overstimulation.

I'm just not sure what a learning specalist could do for us at this point with dd. Her find and gross motor is developed at least to that of her peers. Her language far exceeds her peers. Even things like I mentioned not knowing blue, is normal for her age, not delayed. I guess the nursing a million times a day could be a delay but if so she is still stuck in n/b for that one.

Give me a better idea of what they might be able to do to help me. I have avoided the Parents as Teachers orginization, mostly because we were messed with so much at dd's birth that I just needed to be left alone to parent her and trust my own instincts if you kwim. I was pretty raw that first year esp and couldn't handle someone so much as looking at us crossways on a bad day. Luckily my hermiting worked and we were rarely criticised for our parenting choices (Church my main social outlet that first year is quite mainstream/dobson/cio/wean at a year etc).

[natashaccat]

My background is respite care for autistic children so to be honest I'm really not exactly sure what you'd get from an infant learning specialist but your story so much reminds me of one little boy that I know who was recently diagnosed as having Aspergers (and related gifted-learner issues) that it is just sending up red flags to me.

Please don't think that I'm saying that this is some common thing or that it's likely that your dd has Aspergers (posts online can get really confusing that way)...

It's just a similiar situation in that his parents struggled for a really long time (until 6 yo) thinking that they were dealing with birth trauma related behavior issues when in fact there was something entirely different (or possibly related?) going on. So anyway, I guess what I'm probaby, badly, trying to communicate is that there are other possible causes for the behaviors that you describe. (Not that I'm disagreeing with you about your dd needing to heal, just hoping to give you some other ideas to explore, KWIM?)

Other than items pertaining to this little boy's situation, I haven't done tons of reading on gifted children but FWIW, I think that this might be something that you may want to research for yourself and see if you think it's applicable.

I agree that the PAT program might not be all that helpful in this situation, I suspect that they are more familiar with situations where children aren't meeting their milestones than when they are exceeding them exceptionally early but perhaps a more highly trained infant learning specialist might have some insights?

I dunno...I'm just throwing some ideas out there, take 'em for what they're worth: but there lots of mama's of gifted children here on MDC and I think that they might be able to offer you tons more information than I can.

[Pattyla]

Thanks again.

My good friends dd has aspbergers (sp?) so I'm quite familiar with it. Her dd is 12 and she is always saying how much my dd reminds her of her dd. Thankfully she isn't showing any of the behaviors that her dd was that led them to seek interventions for her. My m/w claims that asbergers is 100% corelated with vaxing and my dd hasn't been vaxed. Not sure how much weight that holds but anyhow.

We went to a new ped. chiro yesterday. She and I had talked some previously about dd's issues. She saw her for the first time yesterday though. She said that the adrenals section of her back is all "sticky" and that she thinks this explains the not sleeping. She actually said it was the worst back she had ever seen (I suspect she exagerates but still...) She also suggested we do some swaddling with dd. Wrap her up tight and let her break out of it. I just tried while she was fighting her nap and she freaked out. I think I better try when she is calmer first. She thinks that chiro can really help her.

Last night she slept the best she has slept in ages. DD also has an overgrowth of candidia and yesterday I decided to cut out fruit for us both (along with all the other foods we already have eliminated from our diets). I think that was the key to her better sleep last night but I don't like it. Esp since all the summer fruit is so fresh and yummy right now.

Anyhow. I have gotten lots of great info so far on this thread. It has really been helpful.

[Shanana]

I stumbled on this post while searching for something else ... So sorry to hear about all this, mama. I see that CST has been mentioned, but I just wanted to say it has been a tremendous help to me and dd in the healing from her birth. I blogged about our experience in some detail, which you can read here if you're interested. If you're interested in trying to find a different CS therapist, you can search for practitioners at this site. It will say by each person's name what classes they've taken, and while I don't think there is necessarily a class dedicated to healing from birth trauma, I believe finding someone who is skilled in somatoemotional release, and also working with children would probably fit the bill. Check their coursework, and how far advanced they are in the CST curriculum, and maybe you can find someone to help you.

Good luck, mama.

[singbanshee]

hi i know this is kind of an old post but have you thought about going to see a homeopath? There are quite a few good ones that specialize in women and children. If you need the name to a really good one just pm me. i also had a hard labor and delivery with my son also going to nicu and all the fall out of that but thankfully i went to a homeopath and both of us are doing good. here's some {{{hugs}}} for you in this tough situation