Not to be picky here... - Page 2

[therdogg]

Again, if your child is gifted AND special needs, then it is fine to have a thread stating such, like "Gifted and ASD?" or "Gifted with cerebral palsy" because then presumably you might want support for your child's disability which might be mimimized because of his intelligence. I have a gifted child and a special needs child. The very word "gifted" implies that in and of itself having an IQ two standard deviations above the norm is NOT a disability. My challenges with my very bright child are NOTHING compared to my SN child. It's like having a thread "The challenges of an overly attentive and loving husband who drives you crazy by his over-the-top romantic overtures" on a divorce board. Salt in a wound.

Not that I think that is any of those mama's intents, but still....

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by lizc

Yes, dealing with a gifted child can be quite trying but I believe that thread belongs elsewhere. Perhaps in a Tribe.

:

[peekyboo]

I started a thread in the Questions board, if anyone else wants to chime in there (it hasn't shown up yet fyi.)

[addax]

I'm another one who just never reads the Gifted thread. And says away from other posts that appear here because of that thread (ie, the occasional post about how someone thinks their child may be gifted).

I have a 'gifted child' (though I never use that term) who is also special needs. It is draining, exhausting, emotionally difficult, rewarding, heartbreaking. Come to think of it my younger one is probably 'gifted' too -- but he's a much easier child to raise, even though his physical issues are more challenging. I don't feel I have anything to gain from visiting the gifted thread. What I'm dealing with and what mothers who have gifted children who do not have disabling special needs are dealing with are different things.

I am happy just to avoid the thread and, if I'm honest, not be completely happy with it being there. I don't love everything on mothering.com, and there are even other discussions on this forum I avoid so as not to feel upset or mad.

Fiona

[Finch]

Originally Posted by bri276

I'm sorry but to even for one iota of a second compare being challenged to look up information for your rapidly learning child to the unimaginable depths of despair many, if not most, of the things us mamas on the other end are going through is.....so blissfully ignorant. I am not trying to be ridiculously defensive but please give the special needs mamas the respect of not pretending that it's the same to have a gifted child as it is to have a delayed one.

ITA with this.

Sorry folks, I am gifted, and required no special parenting. Not borderline gifted, admissable to MENSA gifted, okay? I was reading on a 3rd grade level when I was 3 or 4, and all that jazz. I was enrolled in the gifted programs, AP programs, started college as a sophmore because of all my AP credit...blah blah blah. Yay me.

I hate seeing that gifted thread in here every stinking time too. Having BEEN a gifted child myself, and having to PARENT a child with special needs, it really does irk me. I just roll my eyes.

Sorry, it's not nice and fluffy and all that, but it's the truth. MV, I get what you're saying about parenting an ASD kid who's gifted, but that, in my mind, is parenting an ASD child, not a gifted child. Being gifted and having ASD is an autism issue. But if all your kid "has" is being gifted, well, sorry, but I really don't feel any sympathy.

Oh, you poor thing, you have to enroll your child in special gifted programs and indulge their off the charts curiosity and buy encyclopedias instead of Richard Scary books. Oh how do you cope. /sarcasm

When I'm dealing with my nonverbal child headbutting me and making me bleed for the umpteenth time for some reason I cannot fathom, or when I have to calculate a family outing like a military battle plan because of all the "what if's" that may happen with my kid, I really don't give a hoot about the "special needs" of gifted kids. I would kill to have a child who is "just" gifted.

[deleria]

I also think that comparing the 'special needs of gifted children' with the 'special needs of delayed/impaired in some way' children is like comparing apples and oranges. I do get that having a smart child requires extra stimulation. I have two of them. They also happen to be hearing impaired. One who people - especially professionals - have tried to label 'gifted' and I've always argued that everyone is smart in their own way. I truly believe that. It's really something how our brains work and I celebrate every child's capabilities.

But this is a special needs forum. This is where I come to discuss my children's genetic hearing loss and anything related to it. Where I talk to other parents about their children with Downs Syndrome (I have a younger brother with Downs). Where I find information for one of my best friends who's identical twin sons are both ASD. And when I see a gifted thread here, it just doesn't seem to fit. It's not the same. Sorry, but it just isn't. It's a challenge, but an amazing one. One you can be proud of. I am SO proud of my sons and the way their minds work, but I don't talk about it in this forum, KWIM? I talk about his hearing aids and how he doesn't like his FM system and how I'm worried because the baby I'm carrying right now doesn't startle to noise at all. And I do my best to respect the parents in this forum who's children are struggling with special needs that are so much more challenging than what my boys are dealing with. That's another reason why I don't talk about my son's enrichment projects here, you know?

At any rate, I don't care if the thread is moved or not, but I do see why a lot of other parents would. It just looks like a square peg in a round hole here to me, that's all.

[EXOLAX]

Hi, I'm Xaloxe and I post on the "Addressing the Special Needs of Gifted Children" thread.

I'm first going to go out on a limb and state that I believe the issue here is not directly with the parents who are posting on that thread, but rather with the threads' placement in the forums. I do not like the thought of people being turned off from the Special Needs forum because of a thread. I also don't want to see people leave the "Gifted" thread because they feel that their posting there is offensive. I don't know if posters will be able to resolve this, and agree that it is an issue for the MDC mods.

I remember when I first posted on the SN forum that I felt out of place and even stated that we don't consider our DD to fall in the special needs category. For this reason I don't like labels, and wonder how much of the issue comes down to that. Everywhere I look I can find people who have to deal with much more difficult issues then we do, just as I can find many who deal with lots less. No matter what the situation, it doesn't negate what each and everyone of us has to go through. It doesn't dimish our struggles, our decisions, our worry to know that someone else has it easier or harder. We all define in our own minds what "special needs" are to us. I don't believe it would be fair for me to hold someone else to my own standards.

FWIW: I first came to the SN forum to get some advice on our eldest who was born with multiple congenital anomolies (she's 5 and I still can't bring myself to think of them as birth "defects"), has been diagnosed with SID, has numerous diagnosed and unknown allergies, currently has unknown health issues that have put her through test after test since March amongst other things. I'm not justifying our presence here, just giving background for my above comments. Outside of her physical issues, she challenges us to keep up with her inellectually. I have found much support in the SN forum for her health and physical issues, as well as in the "gifted" thread for help in dealing with her sometimes debilitating perfectionism (and as a safe place to go to speak of her accomplishments w/o fear of offending anyone). I don't believe anyone wants to be offensive, and I feel we all deserve a place to feel safe. This is why I wanted to differentiate between the personal and technical issues of the placement of the thread in question.

[Adamsmama]

I hadn't read the gifted thread until now. I agree that it shouldn't be in this forum. My son is a child that is called globally delayed, SID with possibly Cerebral Palsy. He is a very sweet little boy but the past year-year and a half have been extremly difficult because we don't know how to help him. I've sat down with him and tried to play with him and most of the time he wonders off...I've tried to teach him things and it literally takes months and months of no response to one day see some response. I have a one year old son, too, who is without special needs. It took him a few days/maybe weeks to learn his body parts "where's your nose?" and he point to his nose. It took my oldest about a year to get it--and is just now (at 3.5) answering really quickly without having to think about the question). We've accepted that he is delayed and we are working on helping him. I do wish that he would be able to speak clearly, use the potty, not slam his head on the sofa, not toe-walk, not gag on most foods, be able to climb into his car seat, sit down for a video. We took a trip recently with friends who have a child our son's age and she is sooooo advanced (but isn't gifted--she is just a regular child). Totally pt, sleeping in a bed, tells me what books or movies she wants to watch. I want that for my son--and my DH and I work so hard to help him (trying to feed him right, teach him, play with him, etc.) I can see why both SN and gifted children require extra work but for once I would like to see that the extra work means something and is working. My son has gotten to a point where I can see he is starting to say colors and animal names (very few--but it is a start!) If I were to read the gifted threads say, last year, when he was barely saying 5 words and didn't understand simple questions I know that it would made me feel even worse.

[krissi]

I was a gifted child too; I would qualify for Mensa too and I was always in gifted programs, etc. I have sympathy for the moms posting in that thread and their children. Despite having loving parents who tried their best, I hated many aspects of my childhood and no one knew what to do with me. I know it can be challenging to be a gifted child and I'm glad those moms care enough to network and try to help their children be happier kids.

But I agree that there could be a better place for it, like maybe a subforum or in the learning forums. I come here because of having a child with ASD. She is highly intelligent yes, but the more immediate challenges are her severe language delays, eating problems, sleeping problems, mood regulation... It does feel like rubbing salt in a wound to me too to see threads about gifted children here. The two really are apples and oranges. It would be similar to devoting one forum to "weight issues" and then having people post about trying to lose weight alongside people trying to pack it on. Both need support but not necessarily in the same forum.

[thoesly]

Before the gifted threads were started, the mamas involved asked us permission to post here. Those of us who were here at the time had been following some of their struggles on the main boards and had no problem with it. If the population here has changed significantly enough that people now *do* have a problem with it, then that needs to be addressed. But it's not fair to accuse them of "invading" our territory.

Yes, there are days when I blink when I come here and see it at the top of the page (all 3 of my kids have special needs). But that is my issue. I don't intrude on threads that don't apply to me, so I never read those, just as I don't go to forums that don't apply to me. If "kicking them out of the club" really is the answer, then the MDC
Special Needs forum has ceased to be a place where I can refer other moms.

[therdogg]

Originally Posted by thoesly

Before the gifted threads were started, the mamas involved asked us permission to post here. Those of us who were here at the time had been following some of their struggles on the main boards and had no problem with it. If the population here has changed significantly enough that people now *do* have a problem with it, then that needs to be addressed. But it's not fair to accuse them of "invading" our territory.

Yes, there are days when I blink when I come here and see it at the top of the page (all 3 of my kids have special needs). But that is my issue. I don't intrude on threads that don't apply to me, so I never read those, just as I don't go to forums that don't apply to me. If "kicking them out of the club" really is the answer, then the MDC
Special Needs forum has ceased to be a place where I can refer other moms.

Nobody is accusing these moms of "invading" or of any malicious intent at all, just that this might not be an appropriate forum for the discussion, in fact most of the moms (yourself included) find it slightly hurtful. Let's be honest, when you have a SN kid, especially if you are going through "grieving" initially following a dx, the mere presence of typical kids everywhere (grocery store, neighbor, etc) can be painful. Here is supposed to be a safe haven, where everyone "gets it". I don't begrudge these women their beautiful and precious children, who they have every right to celebrate and discuss, but here might not be the place to do it.

[chrfath]

Britishmum - thanks for sharing your perspective. I'm still not sure if I get the whole thing. Parenting gifted children compared to parenting special needs kids. I can't imagine having any of the thoughts, feelings, experiences I have had thus far with my DD would be the same if her "diability" was being gifted. But, I have not had that experience so I don't know.

I also don't mean to make people feel unwelcome. I agree that a support thread should be available. I know how important it is to me to have some place to come to talk about special needs issues with people who parent in a similar manner.

[thoesly]

Originally Posted by Britishmum

I cannot leave the house sometimes because of my child's special needs (aka giftedness). I cannot sign her up in classes. I struggle with the comments of strangers, like a 10 yo at the pool last week "What's wrong with your kid?"

I rarely sleep at night for worrying about my child's future. I am in constant battles with the school, and she hasnt even been there for one day yet. I go for OT appointments. I consult with professionals, and I struggle with paying for them......

I do not understand why anyone thinks that the above is inappropriate in this forum. Unless I am misunderstanding you. Britishmum said there were a couple of other gifted threads going on here that she felt were inappropriate. Do the remarks here address those threads, or do they include the support thread, too? If they address the other threads, that's one thing. But if it addressess the single support thread that has been around quite peacefully for a long time, then that seems as wrong to me as saying a child doesn't have special needs because they "only" have SID or they are too high-functioning.

[jackson's mama]

I understand that moms of gifted children have struggles that I couldn't begin to imagine, and I agree that they absolutely need a place to come together, support each other and share ideas.

I don't feel the intent of this particular thread is malicious in any way, although it could be offensive to the gifted moms to hear that their thread is hurtful to some of us. I don't think there's any way around that - heck, my friends with typical kids have to deal with the fact that I can't always be around them.

I agree with others that this forum might not be the best place for the thread about gifted children. It is often the top thread in the Special Needs Parenting forum, which attests to it's popularity and the need for it's existence. Maybe gifted children need an entire sub-forum to themselves? More than just one thread, a whole area to ask specific questions and get answers?

[bri276]

Yes, but if you have a gifted child, entering a Gifted Child Forum and seeing a thread titled "The Special Needs of Retarded Children" would not strike an arrow into your heart.

Many of the special needs moms who are dealing with delays are ALSO dealing with some pretty heavy medical issues- sometimes it's medical problems, even life threatening ones, which are causing the delays in the first place. A child who is "simply" gifted is healthy. You may not be able to use normal schools. You very well may stay up at night, worrying that you are doing the best you can, and about the future. But you have hope. Some do not. My child is right now only mildly delayed, and her health problems are only moderate.

I don't go into a thread about life-threatening heart and brain defects and say "Oh I know exactly what you're going through, my daughter had a cleft palate."

[NoHiddenFees]

Originally Posted by therdogg

Here is supposed to be a safe haven, where everyone "gets it". I don't begrudge these women their beautiful and precious children, who they have every right to celebrate and discuss, but here might not be the place to do it.

Safe haven. The gifted support thread is just that. Any other gifted thread I've seen at MDC has devolved into bitterness and rancor, except for the occasional thread in Learning at School wrt to choosing a school.

The problem seems to be structural. There are no other appropriate places for the support thread. FYT is not appropriate because of the lack of specificity of the discussion:

Though Finding Your Tribe was originally opened to help parents find each other based on their location we have welcomed tribe threads for parents of a like-minded path to meet and chit chat with one another. However, such threads should not take a focus of discussion for a topic that is hosted in an existing forum at MDC.

A natural course of chit chat discussion might carry you into discussing your daily lives and sharing events and struggles. But focused discussion of a parenting topic, a breastfeeding issue or problem, an activist or political issue, a religious concern or belief, just tpo name a few, should go to the appropriate forum for discussion with the larger MDC community. If you have any question in this regard feel free to check with the moderators before posting. Should you post or thread not be appropriate for FYT on this basis it may be moved to the appropriate forum.

A subforum in Parenting isn't appropriate because it's divided according to family structure. The Education forums aren't appropriate because (1) not all parents homeschool, and (2) many (and for many most) gifted issues are not education oriented. Threads in either of these forums end up as (occasionally nasty) debates anyway.

I absolutely agree that the Characteristics thread is not appropriate here. But where else realistically is the support thread to go? I don't think that many who read on the gifted thread would object to a support thread elsewhere, but this discussion has been had before (both in the gifted thread and Q&S) and no better place was found.

[4imprints]

After more thinking I really think its the word "gifted" that I have a problem with. After reading several of the posts in both the threads it does seem that a lot of the children have problems -- but I have a hard time thinking it is "just becuase" they are gifted. Like a previous poster pointed out her child is gifted AND ASD - so it makes me wonder just how many of these children actually have other issues and not just being gifted. Does that even make sense.

If that is the case then why does it have to be "gifted" when in fact their issues aren't because they are gifted but because they have hypersensitivity or what have you.

And I think what really really irks my very last nerve is these parents inability to see how it can be highly offensive to the other SN moms here. While they are struggling with the fact that their child can "do" something, we are struggling with the fact that our children "can't" do things! Why is that so hard to see how offensive that is. Why don't they on their own make the choice to move to the Tribe thread and then when another mom posts a question on this board about their child's uncanny abilities and questions then another person in that group can suggest she find the thread in the tribe area. Why is that so difficult to understand???? They their insistence on keeping the thread here and the arguments as to why thier children qualify to be called "speical needs" is ridiculous and upsurd. And it is THIS exact attitude that makes me cringe - its like they are insistent on calling their children "different" - if that makes sense. Now I know that really most probably wasnt the intention but that sure is heck how it comes across.

And yes - they may have issues such as suicide and such to deal with (but so do other SN moms) but then why not ask a specific questions such as "dealing with bullies" or "dealing with depression in your child" or "explaining why they are special" - I can accept that - but asserting that those things are special to your children because your children are gifted is....well...not exactly intelligent thinking!

[thoesly]

Originally Posted by bri276

Many of the special needs moms who are dealing with delays are ALSO dealing with some pretty heavy medical issues- sometimes it's medical problems, even life threatening ones, which are causing the delays in the first place. A child who is "simply" gifted is healthy. You may not be able to use normal schools. You very well may stay up at night, worrying that you are doing the best you can, and about the future. But you have hope. Some do not.

These are some good points, but the same can be said about kids with autism. Some have health problems, but many do not. There are stories of "recovery" all over the place, so there is hope. I don't go into threads about medical issues unless it is to offer prayers because that is something I can't relate to. What I can relate to is accepting the reality that my child is going to have certain struggles his/her entire life. Parents of kids with "just" SID have issues that look pretty simple to me, but that doesn't mean they don't belong here. I see the Gifted Support thread in the same way -- I don't go there, but I'm familiar enough with the struggles that I don't have a problem with it being here.

[NoHiddenFees]

Originally Posted by 4imprints

After more thinking I really think its the word "gifted" that I have a problem with. After reading several of the posts in both the threads it does seem that a lot of the children have problems -- but I have a hard time thinking it is "just becuase" they are gifted. Like a previous poster pointed out her child is gifted AND ASD - so it makes me wonder just how many of these children actually have other issues and not just being gifted. Does that even make sense.

Many of the characteristics that have been talked about are seen in significantly higher rates among gifted children. That's why the connection is made. No, not all gifted kids are ADD or ASD and neither are all ADD and ASD gifted.

I don't think it's fair to brand the people who post on the support thread as insensitive. There has been much discussion as the to appropriate placement of the thread simply because of the worry of offending or hurting.

Likewise, I don't think many people like the word "gifted." But that's the terminology and no one has come up with anything better that has caught on.

[LeftField]

I've deleted my posts on the characteristics thread and I apologize for hurting anyone's feelings or being insensitive. In the past, however, the gifted thread has really been a life-saver for me when I needed the support.