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Not to be picky here... - Page 4

post #61 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Look, there are lots of things on MDC that might be hurtful for others to read. Parents who made an informed decision to circumcize their boys have to see the title of the "Case Against Circumcision" forum every time they login. I have found it hard to read happy threads about birthday parties because my GIFTED kid couldn't participate in them until age 10 due to them completely overwhelming his already overwhelmed senses. Ditto with team sports threads, best friend threads, and other experiences my gifted kid has never had because of being so outside the norm. I am sorry if you don't believe that gifted kids don't exist or don't have issues that can cause hurt to them and to us as their parents. However, what YOU personally "believe" or "think" is not the basis for determining what counts as a special need.
I do understand what you're going through b/c I've gone through much of that with my oldest son. Things can be such a struggle for him, between his over-awareness of things and his shyness (which thankfully that has become manageable.) It's been hard to be part of an outgoing family system with the interverted child. When he can't make a decision, they start peppering him with choices, which just makes it worse, when what he needs is for everyone to back the heck off already! I've watched him be ignored by peers in second grade, found out he was eating lunch by himself - the thought of that still makes me want to cry. And b/c of his issues, the principal thought he should go into special ed even though he is so bright! Luckily, he's had great teachers who have worked with me and with him and he's now doing great. The fact that he wanted to do the fourth grade talent show this year just floored me.

But I know that with all this work we've been doing, he will grow up to be a successful, independant person. He drives us crazy at times, but I'm also insanely proud of him and all he's accomplished. He's had to overcome so much.

On the flipside is my youngest, who at age three, says the same five words she said six months ago. I spent eight months getting her to sign "more". She didn't walk until she was 23 months. I've taken her to one doctor after another, spent hours at night scanning the internet for a diagnosis that would fit her. I've had to wait two weeks on blood tests to find out if she had some horrible syndrome. We're currently looking into doing an MRI, which requires putting her under anesthsia. I had to reassure a child who doesn't understand why this strange man is wrapping up her legs to make casts for orthotics. I have to sit in meetings for special ed preschool while still wondering how this has become my life.

For a year, I thought I had a perfectly normal child. I've had to deal with the feeling that I was tricked somehow. I've had to live with slight guilt b/c I had a feeling something wasn't quite right but was in denial. It's only slight guilt b/c I got over denial and have done everything possible to help her. Of course, now I have to deal with my mother, who has dared to tell me I'm not doing enough for my daughter.

No, my daughter doesn't need a feeding tube or a wheel chair, so most of the time, I have felt that we didn't belong on most special needs boards. This is one where I do feel we fit in, even if we don't have as serious of problems as others. I like that it's a general special needs b/c maybe someday, someone will post about a diagnosis and that will fit my dd. And then I'll know what her future is. Right now, I don't. I don't know if she'll go to high school, drive a car...heck, I can't get past whether or not she'll go to kindergarten! I mean, I know she will, but will it be at the local school, or will I have to drive her out of town to a special needs school?

What has been interesting is watching my oldest deal with his sister. He loves her - they all do. But one day, my oldest said matter-of-factly "Maura's your favorite because you spend the most time with her." So I had to explain to them all that Maura needed more of my time b/c it takes her longer to do things. My oldest also was frustrated b/c she didn't walk when I said she would (Mom, it's fall, you said she'd be walking by the end of summer and she's not.) At the same time, the ST decided that she should do a class with the sibs to teach them how to help Maura learn to talk and ds took notes. He asks why she needs the orthotics and I explain. The other two sibs don't seem to take notice of such things, but Collin's always been a "details" kind of kid. Always.

I've just forgotten what my point is. Oh well.

Anyway, I think the idea of having a "Parenting Gifted Children" forum would be great b/c I do think it's a bit stingy to give the gifted kids parents just one thread - how confusing must all that get? When there are so many things like "The quirks of gifted kids" and "dealing with teachers dumber than your child" and trying to make sure the books they read are at both their reading and emotional level (not always an easy thing.)
post #62 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finch
ITA with this.

Sorry folks, I am gifted, and required no special parenting. Not borderline gifted, admissable to MENSA gifted, okay? I was reading on a 3rd grade level when I was 3 or 4, and all that jazz. I was enrolled in the gifted programs, AP programs, started college as a sophmore because of all my AP credit...blah blah blah. Yay me.

I hate seeing that gifted thread in here every stinking time too. Having BEEN a gifted child myself, and having to PARENT a child with special needs, it really does irk me. I just roll my eyes.

Sorry, it's not nice and fluffy and all that, but it's the truth. MV, I get what you're saying about parenting an ASD kid who's gifted, but that, in my mind, is parenting an ASD child, not a gifted child. Being gifted and having ASD is an autism issue. But if all your kid "has" is being gifted, well, sorry, but I really don't feel any sympathy.

Oh, you poor thing, you have to enroll your child in special gifted programs and indulge their off the charts curiosity and buy encyclopedias instead of Richard Scary books. Oh how do you cope. /sarcasm

When I'm dealing with my nonverbal child headbutting me and making me bleed for the umpteenth time for some reason I cannot fathom, or when I have to calculate a family outing like a military battle plan because of all the "what if's" that may happen with my kid, I really don't give a hoot about the "special needs" of gifted kids. I would kill to have a child who is "just" gifted.
Sorry to butt in, but just wanted to say ITA!



I sometimes wander into the gifted threads just to get a chuckle--having been a giften child myself (as well as a general pain in the a-- to my parents ), I guess I get some amusement from the "gifted" threads--sort of like "oh, my poor parents" because I know they struggled with some of the same issues. I know I drove them NUTS sometimes

But come on! Those issues are NOTHING like the struggles of SN parents--they aren't even in the same ballpark! If I were a SN parents I think I would be very hurt by people equating my daily challenges with my SN child to the challenges faced by gifted parents. It really is a slap in the face. And, yes, I realize parents of gifted kids face special challenges, but that is SO not the same thing. I like the "Finding My Tribe" suggestion; in fact we have a "gifted adults" tribe there. Also I think that "Learning at Home and Beyond" would be an appropriate place. But not here.

Just my 2 cents and now I'll go back to lurking....
post #63 of 97
I am a regular poster on the gifted thread. I am sorry that seeing the thread is painful to other mamas. I can easily see how it could be, and I also have wondered at times if it is.

I would support a gifted subforum wholeheartedly. However...I think moving it to FYT would be a not-great idea. FYT to me says "fluff and chit-chat," which is not what the gifted thread is. Also, I think many parents would never find it over there, and some really need it.

Quote:
I have been reminded of a conversation I had recently with a therapist about my gifted child. Her view was that it is often fairly impossible to pick apart the complexity that often makes up a gifted child. What is SID, what is on the autistic spectrum, what is anxiety, what is OCD, what is xyor z? Who knows?
I agree. For me, one argument for keeping the thread here is that such crossover does exist. I frequently read posts in this forum about Asperger's, SID and ASD because we are still not sure if DD may have something going on along those lines in addition to giftedness. Also, I have seen posts here where someone was wondering "What's wrong with my child?" and someone has said "Sounds like giftedness and XYZ." If the gifted thread was moved to FYT, those posts might not be noticed by those who could help.
post #64 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by lckrause
And as usual, it takes me so long to post that what I say is almost completely irrelevant by the time I write it down.

I would LOVE a Gifted subforum. But would that be any less "hurtful"? Because what people seem to be saying here is that the mere existence of our thread is hurtful to them. :
OOh oh - I think I figured it out!!!! Yeah - did I quote???

lckrause - no it isn't the mere existence of the thread. It is the fact that it is obvious that the majority of our kids can't do things even on a normal level and yet here it is that there are parents constantly talking about what their kids do above and beyond what is "normal" on a thread where our kids just aren't.
post #65 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by lckrause
I would LOVE a Gifted subforum. But would that be any less "hurtful"? Because what people seem to be saying here is that the mere existence of our thread is hurtful to them. :
I'm curious why you see a gifted subforum as being "kicked out of here and into our little subforum" - from the other thread. What is so bad about the forum just being somewhere else? I honestly don't understand this.

several people have said they see the challenges facing gifted kids and the need for a support group. Why can't you see someone else's side?

No one said the mere existence of the thread was hurtful. Yes it would be nice to not have to see the gifted thread everytime I came to SN, and we woudn't if it was in it's own forum.
post #66 of 97
I found the thread in Q&S where this was first discussed:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=313232
I'm just reading through it now.
post #67 of 97
look. keep the thread in here, if it's going to be that much of an issue, fine whatever. I'm hurt and cry over my dd's life every single day, why not add another little jab once in a while- I'm over it.

but it's one thing to say "we have nowhere else for it, the other mothers don't understand and argue with us, we have certain things we can really only talk to each other about and our kids do have a unique set of challenges."

fine. cool.

but saying in any way, shape, or form, that as a parent of a gifted child, unless that child has some other add/sid/autism issues going on, in which case you ARE a special needs parents and you DO belong here, don't say that having a gifted kid is just as difficult as having a delayed kid. Just don't. You're wrong; plain and simple. People are JEALOUS of parents of gifted children. People ABORT children with chromosome problems like my baby. It's *not the same thing*.
post #68 of 97
Quote:
Then there's the Financially Challenged SAHMS thread. How ugly. Since the vast majority of sahms are NOT seriously financially challenged, they should just move out of the sahm forum and stop making the rest of the comfortable sahms feel guilty for being able to afford gymnastic classes and organic milk.

Do you see where I'm going with this?
But what you're suggesting is actually the exact opposite of what is bothering people here.

Now, if a SAHM started a thread like "Gosh darnit it I just have SO much money that I don't know how to spend it all! HELP!" and then suggested that her struggles are similar to and as difficult as those of a SAHM living on the poverty line (becuase they both have troubles with money, right?), I think some people might be a bit irked. That (in my opinion) is what is happening here.
post #69 of 97
So I just read that thread and I'm pretty confused???? So only one parent thought it was appropriate for their child to be considered special needs because they are gifted...yes, only one...and even the mod origianlly though FYT would be better....yet the other 2 mods were the ruling vote????? So if all those other parents were alittle uncomfortable why couldn't they open a thread in FYT themselves.

I'm confused still...so the concerns of a few moms looking for a more appropriate place for their children was ignored?
post #70 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4imprints
So I just read that thread and I'm pretty confused???? So only one parent thought it was appropriate for their child to be considered special needs because they are gifted...yes, only one...and even the mod origianlly though FYT would be better....yet the other 2 mods were the ruling vote????? So if all those other parents were alittle uncomfortable why couldn't they open a thread in FYT themselves.
I'm also confused. I'm also slighty insulted by the one comment that those with a problem with the gifted kids thread being here are "obviously ignorant" to the needs of gifted kids.

Apparently that's me.

Yes, I'm getting snotty, but oh well, in for a penny...
post #71 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by peekyboo
I'm also confused. I'm also slighty insulted by the one comment that those with a problem with the gifted kids thread being here are "obviously ignorant" to the needs of gifted kids.

Apparently that's me.

Yes, I'm getting snotty, but oh well, in for a penny...
To clarify for those that haven't read the first thread linked above, here is the full comment:

-----------------------------
Quote:
I'm just remembering one poster coming and asking us how we could cause them so much pain, when they were struggling with theirs and we had ours. I always feel kind of nervous posting there.
If anything like that occurs please let us know. We can address it privately with the member who is obviously ignorant of the special needs gifted children have.

-----------------------------

Tha post was made by Cynthia Mosher.
post #72 of 97
I don't think anyone here is saying that truly gifted children don't have needs that are out of the ordinary for a "normal" child. Or that parents of gifted children don't need support. But, I could say the same thing about parents who have olympian-caliber athletes. To have that kind of talent is extraordinary and requires a lot of time, attention, training and dedication. But I would never say that Shannon Miller or Sasha Cohen are "special needs" children. That's ludicrous. And for their parents to assume that their struggles are equal to those of a parent of a SN child would be somewhat offensive.
post #73 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson's mama
To clarify for those that haven't read the first thread linked above, here is the full comment:

-----------------------------


If anything like that occurs please let us know. We can address it privately with the member who is obviously ignorant of the special needs gifted children have.

-----------------------------

Tha post was made by Cynthia Mosher.
Wow. How incredibly arrogant and hurtful.
post #74 of 97
Nice to have that properly ascribed! (re cynthia mosher comment).

I think that it would be great to have all parents of 'gifted children' whose children do also have issues with socializing, sensory processing, negotiating with the school board, ASD, etc., post here in company with the rest of us. Whether or not their kids are officially 'twice exceptional' according to some school board. After all, we share many of the same issues. And (I hope) all our children have special gifts of one kind or another along with special challenges.

On the other hand, when parents of gifted children want to talk with each other about their children's wonderful accomplishments, whether or not their children also have special needs of the kind people usually mean when they say 'I have a special needs child', then why shouldn't they? I think it's too bad that parents of gifted children find themselves hounded around mothering.com. But I must confess that I would rather that they didn't do that talking here. I like the idea of some creative brainstorming to make everyone happy.
post #75 of 97
Ok....so let me put it nicely then from my point of view...

those mothers of gifted children who insist that their special needs are even remotely close to the special needs of a Down Syndrome child or a physically impaired child are completely ignorant of what "special needs" really is.

well.....you know....since I must be completely ignorant myself.
post #76 of 97
4imprints, I think most parents of typically developing children share things that their children do all the time. It's very natural. However, if I talk about what my child is doing, it may be assumed that I am lying or bragging, or I may make someone else feel bad, or it may just be awkward. That doesn't make me a horribly oppressed person in need of great sympathy, but it does mean that it's a relief to be able to chit-chat about my child without getting weird reactions. Doesn't every mother like to talk about her child?

Also....I've said this before WRT the gifted thread: for many parents, this may be the ONLY place where we talk openly about our kids without fear of strange reactions. Not a single mother I associate with IRL has heard me use the word "gifted" to describe my child. If you lurk in the thread, maybe you think we talk like this all the time. We do not. This is our haven.

Edited: Okay, you drastically edited your post, so now mine is in response to nothing, but I'll leave it.
post #77 of 97
Um, 4imprints, who are you answering there? Not me I hope. What you're countering isn't what I was saying at all. An earlier discussion? Cynthia Mosher???
post #78 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVC
But come on! Those issues are NOTHING like the struggles of SN parents--they aren't even in the same ballpark! If I were a SN parents I think I would be very hurt by people equating my daily challenges with my SN child to the challenges faced by gifted parents. It really is a slap in the face. And, yes, I realize parents of gifted kids face special challenges, but that is SO not the same thing. I like the "Finding My Tribe" suggestion; in fact we have a "gifted adults" tribe there. Also I think that "Learning at Home and Beyond" would be an appropriate place. But not here.
I would like to reinforce what I tried to say earlier: I don't believe anyone here is trying to compaire one child's special needs to another child's. I don't think anyone should get into that debate, not only is it innapropriate and demeaning, but no one will win. I honestly don't care where the thread is, and if it's presence here is offensive then move it, as long as those with the need have easy access to information and support.

As I said earlier, I don't like to refer to our daughter as special needs at all. Not for any of her physical or health issues simply because to me her situation could be so much worse and I do feel bad posting here about her issues. So what if my daughter has congenital neurologic strabismus? Atleast she can see. So what if she had a cleft lip and gum? She could still nurse because her palate wasn't affected. So what if's she's had 4 surgeries with more to come? They haven't been because of any life threatening illness. I could go on but I'll stop there. I know no one is saying these aren't real issues, and I know no one here is saying I shouldn't be posting about these things in the SN forum, but if a mom truly believes her child has special needs, for whatever reason, who am I to tell them their child doesn't? That's my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4imprints
Sorry -that was out of anger and completely inapproriate!!! I do think it is appropriate for parents of gifted to ask GENERAL questions about their childs behavior. For example, how to combat certain behavior issues or social issues - like I stated.

BUT....a thread boasting about how much your child knows is completly insulting and should be reserved for the Tribe section.

However, asking questions about different school programs and dealing with the state WOULD be appropriate here because the majority of us are going through that also - but again - in a general thread.

BUT....boasting about your child's incredible language skills and how "hard it is to handle" when your 2 year old repeats letters and words or whathave you is again...insulting and painful when my 15 month old doesn't speak and my 5 year old didn't speak sentences until she was aided at 4 and still doens't speak properly.

I hope that makes a little bit of sense. I don't think it is about gifted children not having special needs because yes there are social and emotional issues that go along with it, but I would hope that an adult could see how saying their child's incredible vocabulary is a "special need" or "an issue to deal with" is ridiculous!
Yes, there is some bragging going on in the gifted thread. That happens because if some of the mom's post those same things in an age based thread they get flamed. Brags get posted as well because a lot of mom's don't feel comfortable speaking of the things our kids are doing at R/L playgroups etc. But, there is also a support aspect to it. My child frequently goes through bouts of perfectionism that stop her from doing things. We were told by our local public school that our DD would have troubles in K and would have to be tested and placed into a special program. I see how this issue is global, but if this were posted in a general thread and I said "bored in K" instead of "troubles in K" I personally think that would be more offensive then hidden in one general thread.

I said before that I think this is an issue for the mods and not us to handle. I don't think the original issue was with the moms or the posts of the gifted thread but it's mere existence and that is not something we can change on our own. I think having it's own forum is the best solution.

As people have noted there are crossover issues that mom's of gifted children deal with that mom's of kids with SID, Aspergers, etc. deal with. The end result may be the same, though the cause different. I don't believe I have ever seen one of the mom's from the gifted thread post their children's issues outside of said thread.

I've been taking a step back here and have tried looking at this from everyone's perspective. Everyone has the right to feel however they want to feel. I don't think anyone here is telling anyone not to be offended, or that their offense is unjustified. No one can, because emotions are what they are, and they justify themselves whether anyone agrees or disagrees. At the same time, I am not going to tell a mother her child is not special needs if she believes s/he is.
post #79 of 97
Great, and I pm'd Cynthia earlier about this problem. Am I going to get a lecture because I don't understand the SPECIAL needs of a gifted child????


I said it before and I'll say it again... Being gifted is NOT a DISABILITY.

A subforum would be great.

I really am starting to get super upset by this. It would be such a simple thing to just create a Gifted subforum. That way, everyone is happy.
post #80 of 97
By the way, this whole thread will probably get pulled or locked.
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