Juice Plus? - Page 2

[FLDoula]

Originally Posted by whateverdidiwants

Also, they aren't vegan - they use beef gelatin for their capsules.

FWIW, The capsules are NOW vegan! Info just released over the past couple of weeks and being shipped to the consumers this way since June '06!

[Panserbjorne]

Annikate-I have many links if you want them. I've posted them before. I was a distributer until I did a bunch of research and spent alot of time on the phone with the company when things started seeming off to me. I'll share with you if you are interested.

Most of their research has been completely debunked. The benefits people see are from the nutrients that are added back after processing. This has been proven (before I get flamed) IF you google you too can read about the wonders :

[Panserbjorne]

http://www.pregnancy-info.net/QA/ans...g_Juice_Plus_/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juice_Plus

http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/ds/dsJuicePlus.php

to get you started...

[emdeecee_sierra]

We take it because a relative buys it for us. I don't even want to know how much it costs!! I know I would feel so guilty. We do the gummies. I have not noticed a difference in our health. But they sure are yummy!!!

[FLDoula]

Originally Posted by firefaery

The benefits people see are from the nutrients that are added back after processing. This has been proven (before I get flamed) IF you google you too can read about the wonders :

I understand that some people may not like the product, but it is a HUGE thing to state that the benefits people are receiving are from the nutrients added back after processing! This statement cannot be proven true as EVERYONE on Juice Plus has a different response and everyone is different. Yes there is research and I have read the other stuff that is out there about Juice Plus and why not to buy it. But there are also many places online that talk about how Juice Plus has helped them. What about the thousands of doctors, chiropractors, naturopaths, etc., that are recommending it? What about the institutions that are studying Juice Plus and putting their name behind it? If the product was ALL bad they would NOT do this.

I don't want to start a debate, but it is not fair to only say it is ALL bad when there are two sides to the story. Everyone has their own thoughts and their own ideas about things. And everyone has the right to look at everything out there and then make a decision for their own health.

As I said, I have read ALL of the negative responses, etc., to Juice Plus but I have also read all of the positive ones. To me, the positive ones are much more compelling and I am willing to have my family be on Juice Plus because of it. I have friends and family that are on Juice Plus that have had very hard to deal with medical conditions and they have been able to come off of some of their medications and had less symptoms after taking Juice Plus and they have tried MANY things.

Again, not wanting to start a debate HOWEVER I don't think it is fair to only post the negative websites, SO I will post the positive ones that I know of:

www.askdrsears.com (just search for Juice Plus when you get to his website)
http://www.smokeysantillo.com/index.html
http://www.fromheretolongevity.com
http://www.bbbautism.com/dan_juice_plus.htm
http://strc.cc/pages/eye.asp


There are more, but those will get you started. The University of Florida did a study recently and actually published the results in their newsletter with POSITIVE information in there!

[FLDoula]

Originally Posted by sierratahoe

We take it because a relative buys it for us. I don't even want to know how much it costs!! I know I would feel so guilty. We do the gummies. I have not noticed a difference in our health. But they sure are yummy!!!

Have your kids been healthier? Mine were once they started taking the gummies, and this year they have not been sick AT ALL, which is great compared to before. Plus, it is fruits and veggies with a few added ingredients that are from the fruits and veggies, so it is simple nutrition. Not everyone "feels" anything different, BUT then I have been asked "do you feel better when you eat a salad or an apple?" Did you feel better when you were taking your vitamin? But we do it anyway, right? Because we know we should. JP is not a miracle pill. It is a replacement for a multivitamin, and my children's health has improved immensely since we have been on it!

[Panserbjorne]

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA70273

Everything that I have read says that people have also changed diet and exercise-not JUST startred taking JP. I didn't say it was all bad-people are getting benefits from what was added back.

As I said, I WAS a distributer. After the research I did I felt it was unethical to continue selling it. I know practitioners who felt the same way so I am clearly not alone.

[FLDoula]

That is an interesting website, however, I don't think that people realize what the intent of Juice Plus is. Many people think it is fruits and veggies and a way not to eat fruits and veggies, but that is not what it is. It is a way to get nutrition from a whole food source rather than a chemically made vitamin. Nothing more.

And not everyone changes their diet when they take Juice Plus. I did not and neither did my children, yet we all have been MUCH healthier since starting to take it. I know of people who were juicing fruits and vegetables every day yet they had more results including no longer having anemia, etc., when they started taking Juice Plus. I know of children who have ADHD or other autistic type disorders that have more clarity and focus once they start taking Juice Plus. There are people with other diseases such as MS, fibromyalgia, etc., that are doing wonderful after trying everything else and Juice Plus was the answer. So, Juice Plus may not be for you personally and you can decide you don't want to sell it to people, but there are many people who do benefit from taking Juice Plus and for them I would hate to see them not be able to have it. Tell a mother who has seem clarity and focus in her son with Aspergers syndrome and him talking to her more than ever before, all because he started taking Juice Plus, nothing else, that the product is somehow not a good product! Or the mom who is now out of bed after having fibromyalgia for years.

Just my thoughts. I just think that everyone needs to decide for themselves and they need to see both sides of the story, not just the negative stuff on the internet. There are positive things too!

[Mirzam]

Here is another option: Vibe. Also, unfortunately an MLM product, but I think you can get it online. DH bought some from a friend to help her out and we used it for a month or so. I thought it was okay. But honestly, I didn't see any difference in my children's health, but they are healthy kids but not big veggie eaters by any means.

http://www.healthliesexposed.com/art..._25_4654.shtml

[Panserbjorne]

Right. To each his own.

[granolamomma]

Unfortunately, I have been bitten by a few 'wellness' MLM companies. (And I'm not totally biased towards a company just because it's an MLM.) IMO most of these products are at best something that probably won't hurt me. But I've found that the fervor that some people feel - not necessarily anyone in this thread - in defending their products makes me that much more cautious. The product should stand up for itself. If I feel like someone is trying too hard to reiterate the testimonial anecdotes it usually ends up being a case of 'the lady doth protest too much, methinks'. My instincts when feeling that haven't failed me yet.

But I do know a few people who like JP fine.

[Brenda Damachuk]

There are far too many problems with JP to suggest that we are dealing with a mere difference of opinion or that these issues are being raised because some people simply “don’t like” the product. The people involved with selling JP need to do some serious soul searching about the way the business is being run. The company is far too reluctant to share basic information about the product, and far too much responsibility is put on untrained distributors to disseminate information; and for the most part, they are not doing very well, since they all seem to offer vague and conflicting opinions. Unambiguous information about this product should be listed on the bottle label and on the company’s website, but it is not. Many distributors claim that JP is most definitely not a vitamin/nutrient supplement while others claim that it is a vitamin/nutrient supplement but one that is derived from food sources. Few are willing to concede even the possibility that most if not all of the nutritional value of the product comes from nutrients that are artificially added post-processing, even though all evidence indicates this to be true.

Key questions to consider when evaluating the claims about JP are (a) how much fruit and vegetable juice powder does it contain and (b) how much produce went into making that juice powder? The yield of refined powder from fresh produce after removal of sugar, water, sodium, and fiber would be roughly 2%. The capsules contain only about 25% juice powder, so 4 capsules (3 g) would contain about 750 mg of powder, which corresponds to roughly one-third of a serving of fresh produce -- at most. Where is the value in a supplement that corresponds nutritionally to one-third or less of a serving? The JP production facility is not magically exempt from the laws of physics, and simple arithmetic cannot be reasonably dismissed as nay-saying. To make matters worse, the known nutrients in JP are added after the fruits and veg are processed, and there is no evidence that the juice powders themselves provide any nutritional value. The fact that JP contains added fortifying nutrients and very small amounts of juice powder is withheld from the public and not disclosed on the product’s label or in promotional materials. JP should be promoted as nothing more than as a vitamin/nutrient supplement, but even at that, the amounts and variety of nutrients it does contain make it a poor choice as an all-purpose supplement.

Considering what JP provides (and does not provide), its high cost cannot be justified. Top-quality generic multivitamins cost 2 to 5 cents per day, and there is no evidence that Juice Plus is equal, let alone superior, to an inexpensive multivitamin. The expense of the product is often dismissed as trivial, but the truth is that the cost for a single user, $1.33 per day (almost $500 per year), is not insignificant for many Americans. Would you believe that this amounts to about 10% of the food budget for the median family and a much higher percentage for the many families who earn below the national median? And if more than one person in the family takes the product (add $1.33 per day each), or they take additional JP products like Gummies or Vineyard Blend, then the dollar cost and food budget drain would be much higher -- far too high to justify from a cost/benefit perspective.

If one makes the unfortunate decision to become a distributor, then hefty expenses will also be incurred for the recommended startup package of promo materials ($190+), the $60 signup fee, the $360 donation for the bogus Children’s Research Foundation (required if they wish to signup participants), various training seminars (fees vary from $10-$25), bootcamps ($150+), high fees for a distributor website and voice messaging, and extra expenditures for stationery, t-shirts, hats, lapel pins, tote bags, bumper stickers, etc. That’s a lot of money (not to mention time and energy) to spend for the “privilege” of selling a product with no apparent value.

There are also many disturbing ethical and legal issues concerning JP promotion and marketing, such as dangerous recommendations for cancer patients, promotions aimed at kids and pregnant women, and the hidden financial interests of the researchers and spokespeople for the product, to name but a few. Another red flag issue is the key role played by John Wise, an executive of National Alternatives International (the company that manufactures JP) and an author on 5 of the JP research papers. He was previously a senior VP with another infamous supplement company, United Sciences of America, which imploded after being exposed by the FDA and indicted in 4 states for false claims, rigged research, and pyramid scheming. That company’s promotional and marketing tactics are reminiscent in many ways of those now being used to sell JP.

It is also alarming that NSA and JP distributors often imply or explicitly state that JP can prevent, treat, or cure diseases and disease symptoms. Such statements are prohibited by the Dietary Supplement Health & Education Act and the US Code of Federal Regulations, which govern how this product can be legally marketed and promoted. Distributors are bound by those laws just as much as the companies that make and market JP.

All of the evidence of the product’s shortcomings cannot be simply dismissed as nay-saying. Sources that have commented publicly are varied and include the University of California Berkeley, Memorial Sloan Kettering Clinic, MLMWatch, and assorted scientists and nutritionists around the world, none of whom have any apparent financial motive behind their comments. In an attempt to counterbalance such criticism, 5 links were provided by FLD. None of these sites presented compelling arguments and all were selling Juice Plus. It is revealing that not a single persuasive, unbiased source could be cited to support the product.

For Further Reading:
http://www.mlmwatch.org/04C/NSA/juiceplus.html
http://www.mlmwatch.org/04C/NSA/crf.html
http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/1157...dID=637&tab=HC
http://www.environmentalnutrition.co.../150372-1.html
http://www.thedietchannel.com/Dietar...Juice-Plus.htm
http://www.skeptics.com.au/journal/2000/4_nutrition.pdf
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/133/11/3725
http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/ds/dsJuicePlus.php
http://www.berkeleywellness.com/subC.../2000/0011.pdf
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/p...-106/index.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juice_Plus
http://www.gnld.com.au/downloads/gar...carotenoid.pdf
http://juiceplusresearch.blogspot.com
http://www.pregnancy-info.net/QA/ans...ng_Juice_Plus_

[FLDoula]

Originally Posted by Brenda Damachuk

If one makes the unfortunate decision to become a distributor, then hefty expenses will also be incurred for the recommended startup package of promo materials ($190+), the $60 signup fee, the $360 donation for the bogus Children’s Research Foundation (required if they wish to signup participants), various training seminars (fees vary from $10-$25), bootcamps ($150+), high fees for a distributor website and voice messaging, and extra expenditures for stationery, t-shirts, hats, lapel pins, tote bags, bumper stickers, etc. That’s a lot of money (not to mention time and energy) to spend for the “privilege” of selling a product with no apparent value.

That was an interesting post, however some of these above statements are incorrect. (And I believe that all of the post by Brenda is incorrect, however, I wanted to address that the part about the distributor is 100% incorrect and therefore I feel that should make people wonder about the rest of the post.)

None of the above is required EXCEPT for the $50 sign up fee. Nothing more. You do not have to do any of the following. And the donation to the Children's Research Foundation is $30, NOT $360. (I know none of the rest of the above is required in that there are communities of people who do not use electricity, etc., that are reps with Juice Plus, so this should answer the above.)

There is a ton of info on the internet that says different stuff about different products, vaccinations, etc., both good and bad. As I have said before, it is up to everyone to make their own choices.

As regards to internet info, take vaccinations for instance. Many of us on this board are against vaccinations, however, if you search online you will find out tons of people think we are crazy and you will find information that supports vaccinations just as much, if nor more so, than supports non-vax. That is just the way of the world. It is hard to make choices for our families, however, we all need to do that.

I don't want to get into a heated discussion about Juice Plus, so I really think we should stop here. Take a look at the Juice Plus website. Look at the organizations that are doing studies on it and putting their name on the research and think about the docs, etc., that recommend it because of what they see and then make your choice. Look at the links above, and do everything with an open mind. Then make your decision. I did my research and decided it was what I wanted for my family based on EVERYTHING I read and the questions I asked, etc., and made my choice. It is up to you. Juice Plus has been proven to be bioavailable and multivitamins have not. This was the first thing that sold me on Juice Plus. I did my research from there.

www.juiceplus.com

I hope everyone finds peace.

Brenda: I do find it interesting that Juice Plus posts are the ONLY posts you have ever posted here on mothering.com. Makes me wonder what you are doing here???????????????????????

[FLDoula]

New study released at University of Florida was summarized and used by this neurologist in his recommendations:

http://www.vitacost.com/newsletter/n...ter.cfm?nl=298

"There was another excellent study just published in the October 2006 Journal of Nutrition2. In this study out of the University of Florida, 59 healthy law students were given either an encapsulated fruit and vegetable juice powder concentrate or placebo for 11 weeks. At the start, midpoint and end of the study, blood was drawn to measure antioxidant status, DNA damage and other parameters of immune function. By the end of the study, there was a 30% increase in circulating T lymphocytes (which are good), and a 40% reduction in DNA damage in white cells in those given fruit and vegetable powder concentrate compared to the placebo group. Overall, it was found that those who consumed the supplement had increased levels of plasma nutrients with improvement in antioxidant capacity and reduction in DNA damage with increase in circulating T cells."

[Brenda Damachuk]

Originally Posted by FLDoula

That was an interesting post, however some of these above statements are incorrect. (And I believe that all of the post by Brenda is incorrect, however, I wanted to address that the part about the distributor is 100% incorrect and therefore I feel that should make people wonder about the rest of the post.)

100% incorrect huh? OK, do tell…

Originally Posted by FLDoula

None of the above is required EXCEPT for the $50 sign up fee. Nothing more.

I never said “required” (although all of the expenses I mentioned are highly encouraged by JP reps); I very unambiguously used terms like “recommended startup package” and “required if they wish to signup participants”. Please don’t put words in my mouth.

Originally Posted by FLDoula

And the donation to the Children's Research Foundation is $30, NOT $360.

Really! Then why does page 12.1 of the Juice Plus Virtual Franchise Owners Manual clearly state that the contribution to the JPCRF is $360 deducted from your paycheck at $30/month for 12 months. Still waiting for you to point out something in my post that was incorrect…

Originally Posted by FLDoula

(I know none of the rest of the above is required in that there are communities of people who do not use electricity, etc., that are reps with Juice Plus, so this should answer the above.)

HUH????????

Originally Posted by FLDoula

There is a ton of info on the internet that says different stuff about different products, vaccinations, etc., both good and bad. As I have said before, it is up to everyone to make their own choices.

Yes, agreed there is lots of stuff about things and stuff on the internet etc.

But that aside, shouldn’t we be recommending that people read and give more credence to unbiased commentary from reputable organizations, scientists and nutritionists than to the promotional websites of people trying to sell the product?

Originally Posted by FLDoula

As regards to internet info, take vaccinations for instance.

Ah, no let’s not! Vaccination has nothing to do with a discussion of JP.

Originally Posted by FLDoula

Look at the organizations that are doing studies on it and putting their name on the research...

Wait a second…No organizations are studying it or putting their names on it. Paid researchers who happened to have addresses at universities are putting their names on it. That in no way implies any kind of direct involvement or official blessing by the universities where such work is conducted. Researchers are only too happy to study JP when NSA hands them checks for hundreds of thousands of dollars, as is the case with studies now in progress.

Originally Posted by FLDoula

...and think about the docs, etc., that recommend it because of what they see and then make your choice.

The docs you referred us to earlier, like Bill Sears and Mitra Ray, see regular fat paychecks from NSA, and they recommend JP simply because it is profitable for them to do so. How does that help anyone make an informed choice?

Originally Posted by FLDoula

Brenda: I do find it interesting that Juice Plus posts are the ONLY posts you have ever posted here on mothering.com. Makes me wonder what you are doing here??????????????????????? Sounds kind of like trawling/trolling to me.........

Hey pot…meet kettle. I find it interesting that you would make an accusation like that when you have posted about JP far more than I have.

FLD had also stated (but later deleted "Juice Plus has been proven to be bioavailable and multivitamins have not." But FLD was wrong yet again on that point. It has never been proven that the nutrients in/added to JP are any more bioavailable than those in any decent multivitamin. It could have easily been tested in any of the studies that NSA financed over the past decade but they chose not to. Wonder why?

In fact, any time they studied blood levels of common phytonutrients like cryptoxanthin, they found that there was NO absorption. Explain that one…

It is really amazing that FLD would attempt to say that everything I wrote was 100% incorrect and then not be able to show a single instance. FLD also conveniently bypases the most important points and offers no rebuttal whatsoever; namely:

1. Many if not all of the nutrients in JP are added artificially after the fruit and vegetable powders are processed.

2. JP contains very small amounts of fruit and vegetable powder derived from a very small amount of fresh produce...too small to offer any value.

3. Even with added vitamins, JP fails to deliver sufficient amounts of many essential nutrients including copper, iron, calcium, fiber, potassium. Why should a consumer spend $1.33 a day on JP when they would still need to take another supplement(s) to get the iron, calcium, fiber, B-vitamins and minerals they need?

4. NSA and JP distributors ignore both scientific fact and the regulations set by the US Congress when they recommend this product for the treatment or prevention of disease.

[Brenda Damachuk]

Originally Posted by FLDoula

New study released at University of Florida was summarized and used by this neurologist in his recommendations:
http://www.vitacost.com/newsletter/n...ter.cfm?nl=298

First of all, no recommendation of JP was given on the website mentioned. Second, this study you referred to by Nantz et al is a great example of how researchers will distort their reporting of data when NSA is paying them. Sue Percival, this study's leader, received roughly $100,000 from NSA. The study's statistical analysis of the data showed that JP HAD NO SIGNIFICANT EFFECT ON DNA OXIDATION. This is not my opinion, it is a FACT. It is clearly and inarguably shown by the ANOVA results in Table 3 which showed a non-significant p-value for the treatment effect. Despite that FACT, the authors still falsely reported that JP did have an effect on DNA oxidation. This is dishonest, bad science, and completely indefensible. Furthermore, 2 other well designed studies also showed that JP had no effect on DNA oxidation (studies by Kiefer and Bloomer).

Did anyone notice that the study also reported that JP did not increase the blood levels of zeaxanthin and cryptoxanthin? These phytonutrients are abundant in in fresh fruits and vegetables. If the plant powders in JP actually contained the nutritional essence of fruits and vegetables, as NSA claims, then JP should have increased blood levels of xeazanthin and crytpoxanthin, but it did not, showing once again that NSAs claims are baseless.

[FLDoula]

Originally Posted by Brenda Damachuk

100% incorrect huh? OK, do tell…

I never said “required” (although all of the expenses I mentioned are highly encouraged by JP reps); I very unambiguously used terms like “recommended startup package” and “required if they wish to signup participants”. Please don’t put words in my mouth..

Well, not everyone encourages this of the reps on their team. And quite simply you can have a business with Juice Plus for $50 sign up fee and $40 every year after that. If you have a child that you sponsor, yes you will have a small cost incurred by that because you are helping to defray some of the cost of the child being on it for free.

Originally Posted by Brenda Damachuk

Really! Then why does page 12.1 of the Juice Plus Virtual Franchise Owners Manual clearly state that the contribution to the JPCRF is $360 deducted from your paycheck at $30/month for 12 months. Still waiting for you to point out something in my post that was incorrect…..

$30 is a fee per customer per year, not $30 per month for 12 months, that is on the Children's Health Study. I personally don't have a problem with this. The parent is getting the product for free for their child and I as the rep from the company help defray the cost of the child's product. I don't know where you are reading what you are , but it is not in the manual that I have. Chapter 12 is on something entirely different.......

The community of people I am talking about are Amish. They do this business without any of the recommended computer stuff/voicemail, etc., so that was my point about it not being "needed" or "required."

Originally Posted by Brenda Damachuk

Ah, no let’s not! Vaccination has nothing to do with a discussion of JP.…..

This was an illustration about INFO on the internet that can be conflicting.....NOT a comparison of vaccinations and JP! Come on......read what was written.......

Originally Posted by Brenda Damachuk

Wait a second…No organizations are studying it or putting their names on it. Paid researchers who happened to have addresses at universities are putting their names on it. That in no way implies any kind of direct involvement or official blessing by the universities where such work is conducted. Researchers are only too happy to study JP when NSA hands them checks for hundreds of thousands of dollars, as is the case with studies now in progress..…..

MD Anderson Cancer Center/University of Texas is doing a study and has it on their website they are looking for participants. See the post I did above about the study at the University of Florida. There are others. And the study being done at Wakeforest University is being funded by the National Institutes of Health, not NSA.

If you read anywhere on the web about funding for any studies it comes from the company with the product. The pharmaceutical industry works this way. Look at the FAQ pages of places like MD Anderson, etc. They say that the money for the studies comes from the company that made the product. Then they do the study.

Originally Posted by Brenda Damachuk

The docs you referred us to earlier, like Bill Sears and Mitra Ray, see regular fat paychecks from NSA, and they recommend JP simply because it is profitable for them to do so. How does that help anyone make an informed choice? ..…..

There are MANY more docs than just these two that are recommending Juice Plus and many that are not distributors. They are not well-known names, they are just docs in towns across America and in Europe, etc., doing this. They recommend Juice Plus because it is something they have seen help their patients, etc.

As far as getting paid to do something, Juice Plus is a natural product and they recommend it. Yes some of them get paid to do it. That is their choice. But, think about it from this standpoint....what about the pharmaceutical reps going into the offices of docs and putting product samples in their office and the doc getting paid to prescribe their drug???? They get thousands of dollars from one company, so if you don't believe them with Juice Plus then you should not believe them with the drugs they prescribe either.

Originally Posted by Brenda Damachuk

Hey pot…meet kettle. I find it interesting that you would make an accusation like that when you have posted about JP far more than I have. ..…..

My point was that Juice Plus posts are the ONLY ones you have posted on. I have been on mothering.com for a LONG time.......I have used it through my pregnancies for advise, for info on my sons when they are sick, to make decisions about circ/vax/homeschooling. I am not here just posting when there is a Juice Plus question, which apparently you are since I don't see any other posts by you on the board.

Originally Posted by Brenda Damachuk

FLD had aslo stated (but later deleted "Juice Plus has been proven to be bioavailable and multivitamins have not." But FLD was wrong yet again on that point. It has never been proven that the nutrients in/added to JP are any more bioavailable than those in any decent multivitamin...…..

Read the newspapers and magazines on health and they are the ones saying that multivitamins are not absorbed by the system, and talk to a man who owns a porto-potty business and ask him how many vitamin pills he finds when he cleans them out. Juice Plus is being absorbed as antioxidant levels go up and are proven many times over by people taking the product and having it tested via blood draws and antioxidant screenings.

Originally Posted by Brenda Damachuk

It is really amazing that FLD would attempt to say that everyting I wrote was 100% incorrect and then not be able to show a single instance....…..

I said part of what you said was 100% incorrect.....ie the $60 fee versus the $50 fee, and the other things which I addressed earlier. I did not say your whole post was 100% incorrect.

Originally Posted by Brenda Damachuk

NSA and JP distributors ignore both scientific fact and the regulations set by the US Congress when they recommend this product for the treatment or prevention of disease.

NSA makes no claims about Juice Plus and the prevention and treatment of disease. If a rep is doing this, they are not following the guidelines set out by the government and the company.


The reason why I share Juice Plus with family and friends is because of what I have seen. I have read all of the info on the internet and spent many months reviewing it. AFter reading everything, I wanted it for my family, loved what it did for my family, and have subsequently shared it with other members of my family and friends. I took vitamins and supplements for many years (all natural from a reputable natural company) and did not see an improvement in my health, and I was desperate from being sick all of the time and having my boys be sick all the time. Since being on Juice Plus I have seen a dramatic improvement in my health and their's. It is that simple. I would rather know that I have a product that will digest in my system rather than going in one end and out the other. That is my choice for my family, and I am very satisfied with it after years of not being satisfied with the health of my family.

I also love the story of the making of Juice Plus. The man who started it took care of his father who had cancer and was sent home with 3 weeks to live. He is a naturopath and wanted to help his dad out "his way" and started giving him juice via n enema and rubbing his body down with oils for absorbtion. Then when his father was able to drink, he wanted to give it to him via his mouth but he could not tolerate the amount he needed so his son dehydrated it for his dad and spoon fed him fruits and veggies in a concentrated form. He used accupuncture and meridian testing to determine which fruits and veggies worked together for the optimal health. His father's health steadily improved, he went back to work and lived another 6 1/2 years. Then the naturopath started using it with his patients in his practice and they started getting healthier too. So he decided to try to find someone to help get it to more people, and went to many companies and finally found one that would give it a try and encapsulate it. And the rest is history....so to speak........Juice Plus has been being sold on the market for 13 1/2 years.

[Brenda Damachuk]

Originally Posted by FLDoula

$30 is a fee per customer per year, not $30 per month for 12 months, that is on the Children's Health Study.

The manual clearly states that distributors who want to use the Children’s Research Foundation program must (1) “become a contributing Foundation member” and (2) “commit to a $360 contribution to the Foundation that is deducted from your payroll check in $30 increments one month at a time for 12 months.” It couldn’t be more explicit.

Originally Posted by FLDoula

The community of people I am talking about are Amish. They do this business without any of the recommended computer stuff/voicemail, etc., so that was my point about it not being "needed" or "required."

Are there really enough Amish JP distributors to make that example representative of the average American JP distributor? Smells like a red herring to me.

Originally Posted by FLDoula

This was an illustration about INFO on the internet that can be conflicting.....NOT a comparison of vaccinations and JP! Come on......read what was written.......

Do we need an example to show that conflicting information about a variety of topics exists on the internet? Does the existence of uncertainty in the world have any bearing on the validity of JP? It's another red herring.

Originally Posted by FLDoula

MD Anderson Cancer Center/University of Texas is doing a study…

Untrue. MD Anderson/U Texas is NOT doing a study on JP, some researchers who are based there are doing a study. Research that takes place at a hospital or university is NOT endorsed or validated by the institution itself. And just because research is merely being conducted tells us nothing about the value of the product. Shouldn’t we wait until the studies are finished and the results published before we trumpet the names of hospitals and pretend that it somehow validates JP? What if the MD Anderson study shows that JP is useless or even harms people? We won’t know until it’s completed and published will we? For all we know at this point, JP could cause cancer.

Originally Posted by FLDoula

If you read anywhere on the web about funding for any studies it comes from the company with the product. The pharmaceutical industry works this way.

No, actually it doesn't. Pharma research is usually not financed ONLY by the manufacturing company. The company that manufactures/sells the product typically sponsors only some of the research, competing companies sponsor other studies in an attempt to dispute their competitor’s claims, and some studies are conducted completely independently. Whether or not a drug study that shows positive results was funded by the manufacturer weighs heavily among scientists and doctors when they are evaluating claims about effectiveness. In cases where all of the research has been funded by the company that makes a product, the data is often regarded with extreme skepticism. There is no reason why JP research should be exempt from similar skepticism.

Originally Posted by FLDoula

There are MANY more docs than just these two that are recommending Juice Plus and many that are not distributors.

Really? Then why didn’t you provide us evidence to back that up instead of posting links to Bill Sears’ and Mitra Ray’s websites? You chose your best examples and they were nothing more than self-serving shills who are making millions from JP.

Originally Posted by FLDoula

Yes some of them get paid to do it. That is their choice. But, think about it from this standpoint....what about the pharmaceutical reps going into the offices of docs and putting product samples in their office and the doc getting paid to prescribe their drug???? They get thousands of dollars from one company…

You apparently don’t know the true relationship between Pharma companies and physicians. Physicians are NOT paid to prescribe drugs, and it would be illegal to do so. If it were to happen, the FDAs DDMAC would punish them brutally. Pharma companies fear DDMAC and they take the regulations seriously, knowing that they would otherwise risk getting fined painfully or being shut down. DDMAC is not taken lightly. A Pharma company would also have hell to pay if they copied the NSA marketing tactic of using spokesdoctors with huge financial interests in the product.

Originally Posted by FLDoula

…so if you don't believe them with Juice Plus then you should not believe them with the drugs they prescribe either.

Yes, we are finally in agreement! When there is no independent research data we should not believe claims about JP or drugs. So we can therefore agree that the JP research is not believable.

Originally Posted by FLDoula

Read the newspapers and magazines on health and they are the ones saying that multivitamins are not absorbed by the system, and talk to a man who owns a porto-potty business and ask him how many vitamin pills he finds when he cleans them out.

Ohhhh…so that’s what you meant when you said “PROVEN”? Most people liken proof to….oh let’s say…maybe medical journal articles or unbiased expert commentary! Why claim that something is “PROVEN” when the proof consists of nothing more than some magazine articles and urban legends about outhouse cleaners? Better than telling us to do it, why don’t YOU go ask some porta-potty cleaners about vitamins and then get back to us? In the meantime, there is no evidence whatsoever that JP is as good as any multivitamin.

Originally Posted by FLDoula

I did not say your whole post was 100% incorrect.

Why backpedal? That is in essence what you said… “however some of these above statements are incorrect. And I believe that all of the post by Brenda is incorrect”. Did you in fact think some of it was correct? Which parts?

Originally Posted by FLDoula

NSA makes no claims about Juice Plus and the prevention and treatment of disease. If a rep is doing this, they are not following the guidelines set out by the government and the company.

You have restated precisely the criticism I had posed to you about the reps. It is one of the many reasons why this product’s marketing has been criticized. Many reps ARE making such unfounded and prohibited claims and many reps ARE in fact violating the law. NSA itself paves the way for such abuses by deceptively basing much of their marketing on disease prevention. NSA even refers to JP as “America’s Brand Name in Prevention”.

Originally Posted by FLDoula

I also love the story of the making of Juice Plus. The man who started it took care of his father who had cancer and was sent home with 3 weeks to live…His father's health steadily improved, he went back to work and lived another 6 1/2 years….And the rest is history....so to speak........Juice Plus has been being sold on the market for 13 1/2 years.

Are you not aware that this is considered an implied disease treatment claim and is legally prohibited? The law recognizes JP distributors as NSA representatives, and like NSA, they are legally obligated to not make claims, directly or implicitly, about prevention, treatment, cure, or mitigation of disease. Distributors should familiarize themselves with the relevant legal codes, as well as NSAs disclaimers and policies on acceptable marketing claims. Give a call to Elton Dobose, the head of internal affairs at NSA, and see if he approves of what you are posting.

[FLDoula]

Well, let's just agree to disagree and leave it up to everyone to decide as this is getting nowhere!

[Panserbjorne]

Annikate-did you get more than you bargained for?