Need some advice, first GD post

[kyangel80]

Hi, I'm nak. I have been around MDC for a little while. I have only lurked a very small amount in this forum. Obviously I am aware that MDC is not in support of spanking or violence toward children nor am I. I came from a spanking household as many of us probably did. When I had my first child I never felt the need to spank. It just wasn't necessary IMO. I had previously worked with small children and had some training and was familiar and comfortable with redirection and postitive reinforcement. This worked wonderful. My first born was an angel. Life was perfect. So fast forward. My first marriage ended and I remarried 3 years ago. My husband was expecting when we started dating. If that's leaving you with a perplexed look on your face let me explain. The girl he dated before me got pregnant after they dated for 2 weeks!!!!!! I won't elaborate anymore but my dss was born and we married 5 months later. We went on to have 2 children, one during the first and second year of or marriage. So we have a 7, 3, 2, and 1 year old. I'm having a hard time GDing. Believe me I don't like to spank. I don't believe it really works or is really necessary but I have found myself with my hands full with no help, except from dh of course, and I have used it a few times because I tried everything I knew of and it seemed to be the only thing left.: : Please don't flame me. I have come in earnestness and the search is down and I am unfamiliar with this particular forum. Please know that I am a GD momma at heart in spite of a few lapses in judgement. I just wanted to be totally honest to get the best advice for me is all. So I would so appreciate the best book recommendations for my particular situation. I am hoping someone who has kids back to back and the blended family factor can recommend something great for us. Also any advice would be great. I can give some specific's if anyone wants a typical scenario but this post is long so I'll wait to be asked.

[DevaMajka]

Wow! That sounds like it could be a stressful situation!
I have no experience like that- I have only one 2yo ds. But, I loved the book Becoming The Parent You Want To Be. It gives concrete ideas on how to deal with situations in a gd manner. It is aimed at kids up to 5yo, so that would be helpful for most of your dc's.
Some of my favorite gd ideas have come from this book!
Another book I like, that is aimed at older kids, is Loving Your Child Is Not Enough. Very similar to How to talk so your kids will listen. Both are good books. How to talk is a faster read. Loving your child has more real-life examples and such. So go with what you are looking for there.

Hope you get some good responses! If you post some situations, I might be able to give advice on how to gd the younger kids. I'm sure others can help with advice for all ages

[kyangel80]

Here's some situations

I'll start with dss. He obviously spends a large amount of time with his mom. Hard thing is that he doesn't get the same set of rules I'm sure and he is the baby there whereas he is the second oldest here. We are very laid back but we have basic rules for safety reasons and we stick with them b/c consistency makes it easier for the kids to know what's going on. Anyway, dss would just go outside whenever he wanted. He's 3 btw. So if he heard something outside, he'd be out the door. If someone pulled up he'd be out the door. If he just wanted to go out and play, he'd be out the door. So we talked with him many times over many months about how this was unacceptable for a host of reasons. (Oh, I forgot, he would also open the door for strangers.) We told him he was only allowed outside if he got permission from me or his dad. We told him that it was dangerous to be outside alone and that we didn't want him to get hurt. We tried talking and reasoning until we were blue. Finally after a very scary incident we decided that it was in his best interest to try something different. We tried time out for a good while. Didn't work. We tried taking away a privelage, didn't work. My husband and I were at our wits end. He would also run outside at other peoples homes too. If we were visiting next thing you know he's outside at someone else's house where it really may not be safe to play outside. My husband really felt like we weren't getting through and that it was totally necessary for him to understand that he had to obey us for safety reasons to say the least. Needless to say we felt forced into a corner to spank him. What could we have done different? We do not have chains on our doors and we did not want to install them because that wouldn't have taught him anything.

[sunnysideup]

I think 3 years-old is too young to expect him to not open the door. Even if I thought my child knew not to open the door, at age three I think the door should have a latch or a lock so that the child is unable to open it. This is a safety issue--like keeping the knives within reach and expecting him to learn not to touch them. He will learn eventually, and it is much better to keep him safe while he is still learning.

[kyangel80]

I figured that the consensus would be that he was too young to expect him not to do something that we ask him to. But I do think he is old enough to understand simple commands. If he forgot and ran outside then we would remind him, but when we tell him directly not to do something and he does it anyway I'm not sure that is the same thing. We do lock the door, but he will just unlock it. So caging him in is an option. Perhaps if this is still happening at what age will he be old enough to expect him to be able to follow this rule?

[lilbanditos]

Hi there,
I too have been a member of these boards since 2003, but rarely visit. I came tonight in search of some friendly advice about GD, because I lost my temper. I am also one of those Mom's that has spanked and seen it not produce the desired results (getting the ds or dd to do what I want...).

I haven't spanked in some time, but anger is still an issue. I can yell and scare my children when I get pushed. Tonight this happened, and I felt so guilty, and ashamed. Ironically, this anger also did not produce the desired results. So my daughter went to bed without brushing her teeth and recovering with heavy breathing after sobbing for a half and hour.

The specific situation is too long to go into, but suffice to say that I didn't get her to listen to me by scaring or threatening her. All I did do was make us both feel horrible.

I hope that sharing of experience helps. It may seem like a way to provide structure or consequence for an action. But it never works. Fear doesn't produce results, love does. I wish I had remembered that tonight.

[sunnysideup]

Originally Posted by kyangel80

I figured that the consensus would be that he was too young to expect him not to do something that we ask him to. But I do think he is old enough to understand simple commands.

I'm not sure that really matters. He's still a little guy, and not mature enough to have complete control over his impulses. It is your job to keep him safe until he can--whenever that is. There really is no magic age, children learn and mature at different rates, and have different temperments. I think it sounds like you have one smart determined boy.

We do lock the door, but he will just unlock it.

The door should have a lock he cannot work, or one that is too high for him to reach.

Perhaps if this is still happening at what age will he be old enough to expect him to be able to follow this rule?

You'll know when he gets there. Based on my experience, I would guess this will probably be a short phase. But, I think your life and his will be better if you don't worry about putting a time limit on this.

I really like this explination of Gentle Discipline from the forum guidelines: Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing. Effective discipline presumes that children have reasons for their behavior and that cooperation can be engaged to solve shared problems.

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by kyangel80

If he forgot and ran outside then we would remind him, but when we tell him directly not to do something and he does it anyway I'm not sure that is the same thing. We do lock the door, but he will just unlock it. So caging him in is an option. Perhaps if this is still happening at what age will he be old enough to expect him to be able to follow this rule?

I think that telling a child NOT to do something can be counterproductive. Especially if you say it like that "Don't go outside..." For one, they hear "go outside" we had a discussion on this a while back, and I will find it for you if you want (re: using "no" and "don't") http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=461511
Another reason is explained well in these quotes from the continuum concept:
"One of the deepest impulses in the very social human animal is to do what he perceives is expected of him." TCC 79
"[A] child may very well understand the reasoning of the caretaker and even reason similarly, while being motivated to behave contrarily. In other words, he is more likely to do what he senses is expected of him than what he is told to do." TCC 88
So, telling a child NOT to do something, is basically telling them that you expect that they WILL do it, which gives them even MORE of an impulse to do it (because its what is expected of them). Does that make sense? Seems like a vicious cycle, and a cruel joke : lol

At any rate, it seems like the very best thing to do is what my best gd friend does with her ds (who is 5 and has had quite the impulse to go outside unattended for a long time ). It's up high, and its quite a simple thing. I can't imagine its difficult to install at all. Not a lock really, it looks kind of like a door hinge.
Ok, you know what, I can't even describe it. So, I'll send her to this thread. Or you can pm her- MissRubyandKen

Eta, I think my ds is old enough for me to expect him to do what I ask of him (or NOT do what I ask him to stop doing)- IF HE CAN. And I assume he will do as I ask, if he is able to. So, if he doesn't do as I say, I believe there is some reason for it. I work on that reason- I either give info, give alternatives, change the environment, or change my requests.

edited to add link

[georgia]

Welcome to Gentle Discipline!!! So good to see you here

[bellona]

I agree with rephrasing your expectations. Instead of "don't go outside" you can send an entirely different message by saying "stay inside please". I just skimmed, so I don't know if I missed this, but does he get enough outside play? That, ime, can make a difference.

I also agree with the no impulse control thing. He probably *knows* he is not to go out unsupervised, but he just can't stop himself. Not providing him with the opportunity to escape will help alot, even if that means more constant supervision (I swear 3 year olds need more supervision than infants and toddlers ).

[kyangel80]

Thanks guys! It really helps to get the perspectives and they are exactly what I need. My mind can get so closed as I don't have much outsied interaction besides my dh and these precious kiddos. I am working on this. Anyway, we do supervise him so we are always aware when he does go outside. Of course not always closely enough that he can't get out. For example if I am folding laundry in another room I will hear the door open. He has to exit into the laundry room and then access the outside door to get out so we always know because the laundry room door is in desperate need of an oiling But once I was running water and a few minutes lapsed before I realized he was outdoors.

He does get outdoor play everyday. I think it is so important. Unfortunately there are times of the day I have to deny his request to go outdoors for various reasons. Mosquito's for one. He is terribly allergic and his mother has requested that we not allow him to get a large number of bites. She also requested I use Deep Woods OFF! and I simply cannot in good conscience do that.

This is no longer a problem btw. He occassionally does still fail to control his impulse and that's oaky, we just remind him and that works wonderfully now. Before when he was doing this it was as if he had zero impulse control?

What we have recently noticed is that he cannot sit still for a moment either. I don't mean in the normal little boy way, it's almost as if he moves involuntarily We are still watching this very carefully and always keeping it in mind. My oldest child never had a problem with impulse control and I always practiced GD with her? Maybe it is a result of the parenting he receives elsewhere or maybe it's just normal for him. I really don't know. He is delayed in other areas like speech. But then again I don't really like to compare him to the other children because everychild does develop differetly and may be behind at one point in time and catch up rapidly.