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annoyed with moms who had easy deliveries and tell me how they made it happen...

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
women who had it easy just don't get it? why do they have to say things, like, well, i did yoga and that is why my delivery was speedy and easy. well, honey, i did yoga, too, and you know what - there was nothing easy or speedy about my labor and the eventual cesarean. i have friends who didn't exercise a minute and didn't quit smoking until their second trimester, etc, etc and had easy, speedy deliveries. you never know what is going to happen, but you do your best to trust in the process and to surround yourself with people you trust.
post #2 of 46
I absolutely agree.

I'm surprised you haven't gotten any other responses. I'd think this would be a hot topic in the VBAC forum, considering how much toxic judgment toward women with c-sections and other less than perfect births is plastered all over MDC every day. Maybe people are afraid to question. After all, we failures at birthing mustn't get uppity, but focus on getting it "right" next time so we can join the club. :
post #3 of 46


"C-Section is not birth" makes me want to spit. I DID give birth, 4 times. It's just not normal birth. Seems easy to grasp. :
post #4 of 46
Just saw this and I agree 100%. I did everything that I think any crunchy first-time mom would have done, other than go unassisted (which I didn't even know was an option to tell you the truth). I saw a midwife (medwife would be a more appropriate term), I did yoga, I ate a balanced diet, I drank RRL tea, I had chiropractic adjustments, I wrote a birth plan, I hired a doula. It wasn't "enough." I've been accused of "not taking responsibility" for my birth because I'm mad at how things turned out and because I feel that I was misled by those I trusted.

There's an awful lot about how so many c/s and inductions are for convenience's sake and how women who give in to them are being impatient or too controlling, but there's not a lot said about how much information is out there and how difficult it is to navigate through the first time around. Which is what makes it that much more maddening when you meet someone who didn't care if they had a natural birth, got the epidural, and still had their baby vaginally. Nothing drives home "life isn't fair" like that, at least for me.
post #5 of 46
i understand. i had 2 c/s's. i didnt do anything to prevent them b/c i didn't know i needed to. i didn't realize what the "norm" was when i had my first 2 babies.
i hesitated to write my birth story of ds3 b/c it wasn't easy. it was natural and a VBAC and im very happy about that. but it was still over 30 hours and hard as heck and if i had been in a hospital i konw i woudl have had a c/s. there is no way they would have waited that long for me to labor (like the first 2 times they didn't) and there is no way they would have allowed me to go from 5am to 4pm with my water broken and no progress. i had a VBAC b/c i was in a birthing center with a midwife not a medwife. and at the end, i was secretly hoping i would have had a c/s b/c it was so very hard.
im sorry you don't find understanding. i try my best not to judge.
i never had a speedy delivery. but i wish i had.
post #6 of 46
I am so totally with you on this...and the judgement from some compounds all my negative emotions especially the ones who insist that women here with cesarean births somehow did not try hard enough, want it bad enough, or have enough information at the time. "If only you knew more about labor"...and the worst one..."if only you had a homebirth midwife things would have worked out for you." make me totally crazy. I find it maddening that people who are supposed to be so gentile and loving are so calous to other women who have had serious traumatic experiences. For the most part, these women never wanted cesareans in the first place, did what they could to prevent it, and certainly continually process the events of the birth trying to see what they could have done differently.

As for joining the "birthin' it right club" - I look forward to having my VBAC but I would never want to join a club that knowingly spits on me as a member. I am thankful that I will never espouse judgement on other birthing mamas. I will never tell them to take responsibility for their "incorrect" choices.
post #7 of 46
I read your post last night and totally agree. I had someone who had a pretty easy natural birth tell me that my c/s wasn't "as bad" as another friends because "she actually got to push." Uh, ok. This was in response to me talking about how sad/disappointed I was about the c/s. Apparently I didn't have any reason to feel bad since I never got "to push."

I didn't realize that I was being graded! It is very frustrating - and I also felt that I did everything a crunchy mama would have done - but birth can't be completely planned in advance. Fortunatly I know a lot of other crunchy mamas who ended up with c/s under similar circumstances and they don't pass judgment.

I just wish everyone would remember that MOST c/s are not elective!
post #8 of 46
I agree. Believe me, my midwife, OB, and I tried everything possible to avoid a c-section with my second child. Fact was, the cord was too short and around his neck 3 times. There WAS no other way than the c-section because he was physically unable to descend. There was no "not trying hard enough" or anything.

What annoys the heck out of me is mothers who do things like keep smoking throughout their pregnancy to have smaller babies so their labor won't be so hard. Yes, I actually had a friend who did this. She had the baby in 4 pushes. Never mind she had preterm labor and ended up on Brethene to stop her contractions. That had nothing to do with her smoking.

As my husband says, people are morons. Just ignore them and stick to your beliefs.
post #9 of 46
I find far too much blame being placed on mothers and not enough on birth attendants. It's the same thing with failed BF: new mothers have their attempts at nursing sabotaged by lack of support and bad information, but the mothers get to keep all the responsibility for switching to formula.
Other than the small percentage of C-sections that are actually medically necessary, I think almost all of them are brought about by professionals. Either hospital policies, impatient doctors, overuse of interventions, whatever. Yet for some reason, it's the woman who's held responsible.
I believe a more appropriate and therapeutic response to a C-section would be to offer to join the woman in berating and cursing the people who screwed up her birth.
Women can end up with longer or shorter, easier or harder labours for a variety of reasons, of course, but emphasizing the things she did while pregnant, whether it's yoga, exercise, diet, or whatever, is once again placing the blame on her for a difficult birth. You're right, there's quite a bit of one-upmanship even in childbirth.
post #10 of 46
There's a Lactation Consultant that works with a local hospital around here who has sabotaged more breastfeeding relationships than I can count.

If a mom starts telling me a bf'ing horror story, and says "I even called an LC" I know if I ask the LC will be "G" She has a specific MO that starts with pumping and breastshields and ends with lack of supply, no good latch and advice to buy/rent a pump from her and exclusively pump/bottlefeed.
post #11 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalateaDunkel
I'd think this would be a hot topic in the VBAC forum, considering how much toxic judgment toward women with c-sections and other less than perfect births is plastered all over MDC every day. Maybe people are afraid to question. After all, we failures at birthing mustn't get uppity, but focus on getting it "right" next time so we can join the club. :
I agree.
I'm surprised by the venomous posts I've read on MDC re: cesarean births. You feel like a second-class mama. FWIW, I didn't have an elective C-section. I wanted very much to have a natural birth but the circumstances of my labor were such a C-section was necessary for my DD's benefit. I have zero regrets about my section. Sometimes I wonder why I care so much about the opinions of a bunch of anonymous women on an online board that I'll never meet.
post #12 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmzbm
"C-Section is not birth" makes me want to spit. I DID give birth, 4 times. It's just not normal birth. Seems easy to grasp. :
If that's how it feels to you, that's great. Your c-sections are births,t then.

However, mine weren't. And, when someone tells me that c-sections are birth, it makes me want to spit. I did not give birth - not ever, and people have no right to dismiss my reality, just because it isn't theirs.

And, yeah - I hate the "well, it would have been easy, if you'd just X, Y & Z" thing. I actually found my 20-and-a-bit hours of labour with ds1 to be quite "easy", but that doesn't mean any particular virtue on my part.
post #13 of 46
this is great, y'all - i'm happy to hear other moms with the same issues. i had a c/s with my first that should not have happened (it was for that old classic, FTP, after my waters had broken more than 24 hours before they finally sectioned me... don't think that wasn't a fight!), but i do not feel guilty about it. i wasn't as informed as i am now, but that does not make me irresponsible or somehow a failure for not being as well informed with my first as i was with my second, a successful VBAC, or my third, which we are planning to HB with a MW in attendance.

i don't blame my five-year-old for not being able to do multiplication; she's not there yet, and i wasn't where i am now with my first.

i too do not view my c/s as my having given birth, in the strictest sense, but i sure would jump all over it if some self-righteous jerk tried to tell me that i hadn't given birth... i guess i'm on both sides of that fence! (i'll make fun of my brother, but you'd better not or i'll kick your butt!)

bottom line is that we all do the best we can with the knowledge that we have... i was extremely well-read the first time around, but didn't know half of what i know now - do i blame myself or learn learn learn and continue to do the best i can with what i know now?

oh yeah, and the one i LOVE is women who try to tell us that we had it "easier" because we had a c/s! that one BUSTS my HUMP!! :
post #14 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride
If that's how it feels to you, that's great. Your c-sections are births,t then.

However, mine weren't. And, when someone tells me that c-sections are birth, it makes me want to spit. I did not give birth - not ever, and people have no right to dismiss my reality, just because it isn't theirs.
It's fine that you feel that way personally, but in a forum where there's a huge problem of women who have not had c-sections degrading those who have, denying them the right to affirm their experiences, treating them as guilty until proven innocent of "taking the easy way out" and using the concept that a c-section isn't a "real" birth to do all these things - what is the purpose of repeatedly stating "you're right, c-section isn't birth"?

Because you can't possibly have missed the fact that when women who have not had c-sections say that c-sections aren't (real) birth, they don't mean it in the sense of "I feel sorry you missed out on something." They mean "shame on you, you failed to do something." You're entitled to your feeling, but the objective reality of MDC is that the problem of "dismissing others' experience just because it isn't yours" on the c-section issue runs 99.9999999999999% the other way.

I'm sorry you feel you missed out on something. Guess what though? So do the rest of us. We just choose not to publicly describe that feeling using words and concepts that others who have never BTDT systematically use to degrade us as a group.
post #15 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalateaDunkel
It's fine that you feel that way personally, but in a forum where there's a huge problem of women who have not had c-sections degrading those who have, denying them the right to affirm their experiences, treating them as guilty until proven innocent of "taking the easy way out" and using the concept that a c-section isn't a "real" birth to do all these things - what is the purpose of repeatedly stating "you're right, c-section isn't birth"?

Because you can't possibly have missed the fact that when women who have not had c-sections say that c-sections aren't (real) birth, they don't mean it in the sense of "I feel sorry you missed out on something." They mean "shame on you, you failed to do something." You're entitled to your feeling, but the objective reality of MDC is that the problem of "dismissing others' experience just because it isn't yours" on the c-section issue runs 99.9999999999999% the other way.

I'm sorry you feel you missed out on something. Guess what though? So do the rest of us. We just choose not to publicly describe that feeling using words and concepts that others who have never BTDT systematically use to degrade us as a group.
Thank you so much for pointing this out...when women say cesarean isn't birth here on MDC they mean you are a failure at birth and at motherhood. Peggy O'Mara got it right when she said that Mothering Magazine does give the false impression that childbirth is always controllable in its magazine. The problem is that many women on the mothering.com forums, without any traumatic childbirth experience, will never believe that childbirth isn't controllable. It just isn't their experience- even if Peggy O'Mara says so! These women also feel very justified in their beliefs and behavior when women who have had cesareans agree with them that cesarean isn't birth.

They do not mean that you (the general you) missed out on a wonderful spiritual rite of passage by having a cesarean. They do not mean that somehow your careproviders failed you. They mean that you are a failure if you have a cesarean birth.
post #16 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lkg4dmcrc
Peggy O'Mara got it right when she said that Mothering Magazine does give the false impression that childbirth is always controllable in its magazine. The problem is that many women on the mothering.com forums, without any traumatic childbirth experience, will never believe that childbirth isn't controllable.
I was not aware that she had said that. It is something I have been waiting and waiting to hear someone articulate. Thank you.

It seems that for every complication that can possibly take place, there is some tale to be told of how it could have been avoided by this or that all-natural technique. Many of these have all the logical credibility of "Just So" stories, conveniently unverifiable because the situation is already past. For example, there was recently a thread of a woman whose baby wouldn't descend because the cord was tightly wrapped around its chest, who had been told that she could have avoided cesarean if only she had spent more time rocking back and forth on her hands and knees during pregnancy. Even supposing that could have worked, how was she was supposed to foretell which undiagnosed problem she was supposed to go out of her way to prevent? Or are pregnant women supposed to work 12 hour days of applying every conceivable natural preventive regimen to themselves???

It is good to spread information about prevention and self-care but after a certain point it degenerates to torturing women's minds with a million "if only's..."
post #17 of 46
I guess I never thought of it even though my first was born by c-section.

With my second birth I did have a perfect VBAC and I'm pretty happy with that. Sure I tell people about it and don't hide it. I don't think I did anything special to make it happen. I just trusted in myself and had a provider that did the same.

Its a hugely emotional process and I think sometimes we just don't check ourselves because we hope that others will share in our joy.
post #18 of 46
I have posted in other threads about the issue of passing judgement on people who have had c-sections, by those those who haven't, and don't feel like rehashing it, but I would like to say that in general I do find Mothering.com to have an undercurrent of people vested in establishing an "hierarchy."

Ideas aren't always shared with the underlying premise of support, so much as establishing a "better than" tone, which I find to be unfortunate at times. This is a generalization, but it is fairly common on the threads. For example, attachment parenting in general tends to be easiest when one has the means and time to be able to devote exclusively to the role of parent. Judging other people, who have less time, support, and resources, seems useless at best, and at worst.......

PLEASE DON'T JUMP ON ME WITH THE "How dare you, I make lots of sacrifices to parent the way I do....", sentiments. All I am saying is that it really is about finding a parenting style that is aware and in tune with who you are as a person and who your child is as a person, and finding a balance. I can't really determine those things for someone else, all I can do is share what works or doesn't work for me. Oftentimes, it seems there is more of an agenda to what people say.

I think for the average person it is nice to feel that we have control over major events in our lives, that if we just try hard enough that everything will come out as planned or as it "should." Wouldn't it be nice if everyone who did yoga was guaranteed to have a natural birth? Or if we just paid enough attention to our bodies that a solution could be found for every birth event? This is just not reality. So for people to judge vs. give information, just seems spiteful to me, and has more to say about their needs in how they perceive their own birth experiences than helping someone who is struggling to make sense off a traumatic c-section or difficult birth.
post #19 of 46
Thank God you started this thread! I had to stop reading the boards here at MDC because I felt the toxic judgement so strongly...and really, who needs any more judgement in their life?

I did all the "right" things: I taught yoga, took natural birthing classes, hired a doula, listened to hypno birthing cd, stopped people from telling me horror stories re birth, and met with the midwives in the practice. I also labored at home for the first 4 days before I had had ENOUGH. I was in agony and I hadn't slept more than 20 minutes in 4 days. I went to the hospital. I won't go into full details (too long for now)...on the fifth day I chose the epidural and pitocin. I finally got an hour or two of sleep. I dilated fully (epidural didn't work anymore at this time--ouch!) and pushed for 1 and 1/2 hours. I suddenly had this knowing that she wasn't coming out (we already knew she was a big baby, the OB/Midwives already said that vac/forcepts wasn't an option b/c afraid of SD) vaginally. At that moment I knew we had to have a Cecarian Birth. Let me just reassure everyone that having a surgery was the last thing I wanted. I am claustraphobic and would never just "elect" to be immobile with a huge drape hung up under my chin. At that moment, I knew it was the right thing to do for my child.

Having said all of that, after my daughter was born, I ignored all that I knew at the time of her birth and questioned myself like crazy: maybe i didn't try hard enough, if only I... you know the drill.

I also do not feel that my OB/Midwives did me wrong. They gave me options all along the way. I ultimately called the shots (even though they did give me parameters that some would disagree with). I find some folks are also very judgemental about trusting your doctors. Lord knows there are some bad ones out there and I do appreciate hearing about other options (ie home births, UA births, etc). Some of us just feel more comfortable in hospital settings (as I discovered I did---didn't think I would, but there you go).

Well, I could go on... Thank you for starting this thread!
post #20 of 46
I've given up, so this will work.

Galatea...I've tried to reply to you four times, and the post won't go through. Maybe I'm meant to drop this.
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