What do you consider "special needs"? - Page 2

[jaye]

Originally Posted by therdogg

Because, we're talking about pathology, when there's something WRONG, not when something is super-right. Two standard deviations above the norm puts someone in the top 2 percent of the population. To take the top 2% of athletes, and to call them "special needs" really diminishes the real issues facing the disabled population in the lowest 2% who cannot walk or use their arms. Yoiu could argue that these super-athletic children have "special needs," gifts that need to be fostered, they drive you nuts cause they always want to play catch, they are competitive and overly-driven, etc etc. But these complaints ring hollow in the ears of parents whose children have cerebral palsy, etc. Same with the top 2% socially, or intellectually. It just gets ridiculous after awhile and renders the term "special needs" meaningless.

I agree.

[jaye]

Originally Posted by alegna

Gifted children need services classified under special eduation. There you have it.

-Angela

But not all gifted children do. Just the ones with disabilities.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by therdogg

I'm sorry, but this is really playing semantics. "Special needs" is the politically correct term for children with significant disabilities, not just a term to describe any child who might have a "special need" which can be interpreted so liberally as not to exclude ANY child, gifted or not. A recently bereaved child, or a child with a sore throat, or a child who has an occasional burst of temper could be described as "special needs" by your definition. And undoubtedly everyone at one time or other has a "special need" for increased attention, or medical care, or enrichment. That's not what we're talking about here.

This use of the term is common knowledge, and is considered a nicer way of saying disabled or handicapped. Just like the disabled community uses the term "typically developing" because it is preferable to saying "normal." I am surprised you did not know this.

I DO know that and it is my very point. In switching to "nicer" (your word not mine) terms it has been accepted that there ARE special needs on the other end too. Gifted kids need SPECIAL education.

-Angela

[alegna]

Originally Posted by jaye

But not all gifted children do. Just the ones with disabilities.

That's not true at all. In most areas all of g/t education (gifted and talented or tag talented and gifted or whatever term is used in that area) is classified as part of SPECIAL EDUCATION. And all children who are identified as gifted quailfy for special education as such. In many areas they are even given IEPs

-Angela

[peekyboo]

editing this post b/c apparently I broke copyrighting laws...not that any of it really matters at this point...

[peekyboo]

You know, the really funny part is I'd rather NOT have my daughter have special needs. I'd rather her just be "normal". I wonder if any parent of a gifted kid wishes this...though I have wished my ds would act "normal" every so often when he's dealing with some extreme quirkyness, it's not the same as standing in the bathroom sobbing b/c I'm completely unsure of what the future holds for Maura (luckily, those instances are very few and very far between - just ususally after going the rounds with doctors or the like.)

[jaye]

Originally Posted by alegna

That's not true at all. In most areas all of g/t education (gifted and talented or tag talented and gifted or whatever term is used in that area) is classified as part of SPECIAL EDUCATION. And all children who are identified as gifted quailfy for special education as such.
-Angela

I'm sorry but I don't believe this is true. Maybe in your area, but that is not nationwide.

[alegna]

A quick google provides an assortment of school district and educational links where gifted is inclued in special or exceptional ed.:

http://www.cde.state.co.us/index_special.htm
http://www.doe.state.in.us/exceptional/welcome.html
http://www.firn.edu/doe/commhome/home0014.htm
http://ericec.org/

-Angela

[alegna]

Originally Posted by jaye

I'm sorry but I don't believe this is true. Maybe in your area, but that is not nationwide.

Sadly, not much in my area, but very much nationwide- see my links above.

-Angela

[peekyboo]

I'm sorry but I don't believe this is true. Maybe in your area, but that is not nationwide.

Okay, in googling "special education gifted" it does show that some states do classify gifted education under the Special Ed umbrella. Personally, I have never heard of this done, but obviously it is.

[Em's Mom]

I have read the special needs/ gifted posts, and I wasn't going to post. However, I guess I need to say one little thing. I only have one child, and I have been to hell and back with her. I would do it again and again and again because I love her more than anything in the world. However, even after all that we have been through (5 operations including liver transplant in the first 7 mths. of her life), she is still globally delayed and I do not know what the future holds for her.

I came to this forum because I wanted to feel a sense of peace and community from other parents that are also struggling...because I feel so alone so often. It has been great to get opinions and hear stories from other parents. However, to see the gifted posts continually popping up at the top of the page is like being slapped in the face over and over again.

I understand that gifted parenting must be challenging. I just feel that the challenges are drastically different than those of parenting a child with what I refer to as "special needs".

What do I consider "special needs": Wondering what the future has in store for your child....will my child still be here in the future? Will he/she be able to function independently in our society?

Just my thoughts

[AllyRae]

Originally Posted by alegna

That's not true at all. In most areas all of g/t education (gifted and talented or tag talented and gifted or whatever term is used in that area) is classified as part of SPECIAL EDUCATION. And all children who are identified as gifted quailfy for special education as such. In many areas they are even given IEPs

-Angela

I went to a G&T program when I was in school and it wasn't special ed. And I didn't have an IEP either. Just some IQ tests and a special class I went to every day with the other G&T people. Never in all my years in school were any of the G&Ters classified as special ed/special needs...

[peekyboo]

Originally Posted by alegna

That's not true at all. In most areas all of g/t education (gifted and talented or tag talented and gifted or whatever term is used in that area) is classified as part of SPECIAL EDUCATION. And all children who are identified as gifted quailfy for special education as such. In many areas they are even given IEPs

-Angela

And once again, I will state, I was pointing out what the mainstream definition of "special needs" is and how that is what many of us are going by. If you asked Joe or Jane Blow on the street what their definition of a "special needs" kid is, I doubt they'd say "Oh, a gifted three year old who can already read and do math." They would probably say "Someone in a wheelchair or with Down's Syndrome" or the like. They would not look at my child and say "Oh, she's Special Needs."

[alegna]

It's a fairly new thing. It wasn't that way when I was in g/t programs either. BUT special ed has come a long way since were in school too (thank goodness!) Education changes quickly. But at least 10-15 years ago the movement started to put gifted into special ed. It's fairly widespread now.

-Angela

[peekyboo]

What do I consider "special needs": Wondering what the future has in store for your child....will my child still be here in the future? Will he/she be able to function independently in our society?

Welcome to the group - I am with you about wondering about the future (though my dd has been blessed with good health at least - one less worry for me.) But since we're still in the world of the undiagnosed, we have no clue what she'll be like in five years even. I try not to look that far ahead - my main goal right now is to make it to preschool!

[alegna]

Originally Posted by peekyboo

And once again, I will state, I was pointing out what the mainstream definition of "special needs" is and how that is what many of us are going by. If you asked Joe or Jane Blow on the street what their definition of a "special needs" kid is, I doubt they'd say "Oh, a gifted three year old who can already read and do math." They would probably say "Someone in a wheelchair or with Down's Syndrome" or the like. They would not look at my child and say "Oh, she's Special Needs."

But that doesn't make it okay! Ask jane or joe blow how to best feed a baby and they'll say a bottle.

The educated, acceptable standard these days DOES include gifted in special needs. If you don't like it, that's fine. But it's still there.

-Angela

[peekyboo]

And b/c I have time (naptime/quiet time for the kids)...

My ddh's "special needs" characteristics...

Didn't walk until 23 months

Hypotonia

Wears #4 DAFO's (and I thank God daily for the insurance that covered the cost of those - which was at least $500 : )

Needs glasses for strabismus, but doesn't understand that she needs to wear said glasses so constantly pulls them off (we've gone through three pairs already.)

Having to buy a BIG stroller b/c at age three she still needs it for different trips out

Has the language skills of a 12-15 month old, the fine motor skills of a 20 month old and the gross motor skills of a 2 yr old - but always making improvements!

The way she stands - it's just goofy sometimes. She sorta squats and her hands hang down limp from her wrists and her mouth hangs open - in every freaking picture when she's not smiling, she looks like that and to me it's just screams "something's NOT right here!"

Our trips to the lab for multiple blood tests :

What drives me up a wall...

Parents of obviously normal kids freaking out b/c their 12 month old only says 7 words and "What to Expect" says they should say at least ten. Drives. Me. Batty! There! I've said it! The one that really nearly did me in - "My 6 month old only says "mama" and "dada" - should she be saying more? Should I get her speech therapy?" AHHHH!!! LOL!

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by peekyboo

What drives me up a wall...

Parents of obviously normal kids freaking out b/c their 12 month old only says 7 words and "What to Expect" says they should say at least ten. Drives. Me. Batty! There! I've said it! The one that really nearly did me in - "My 6 month old only says "mama" and "dada" - should she be saying more? Should I get her speech therapy?" AHHHH!!! LOL!

I've just been lurking in this thread but wanted to give a quick I totally understand. Or how about those who know your child is delayed in a certain area but continues to brag about what *her* dc can do and how *her* dc says way more words than your dc does (and is a year younger). And it wouldn't even be that bad if it wasn't ds's freaking AUNT who was doing it :

Or those who insist your dc is fine and that you should stop "making things up" Yeah, because I find some sort of joy out of making my ds go through all this testing/therapy/school crap

[snuggly mama]

I have one dd, 11, who I consider to be gifted. I also have a 5 yo dd who has special needs. In my mind, they are two entirely different things.

11 yo dd has what we call "extra" needs -- she needs more of the stuff that regular kids do. More books to read, more information about stuff, more engaging in advanced dialogue, things like that.

5 yo dd, on the other hand, needs "special" things, things that the typical population of kids needs absolutely no access to. She needs Braille books, feeding tubes, home care nurses, multiple surgeries, a one-to-one classroom aide, therapists, and written plans in case she so much as falls down on the playground at school.

11yo dd can function if her "extra" needs aren't met. True, she might get frustrated and she probably wouldn't meet her full potential, but she can function in the typical society.

5 yo dd, on the other hand, can not only not function without having her "special" needs met, but she literally cannot survive if they are neglected.

I think, if you want to put both categories together, it's important to respect the feelings of both sides. Kids in both categories have exceptional needs. Kids in both categories require more from their parents than their typical peers. But I don't worry about whether or not 11yo will be able to dress or feed herself. I don't worry about whether or not she'll need a stay in intensive care this year. With 5 yo dd, I worry ALL THE TIME about EVERYTHING.

[AllyRae]

Originally Posted by StephandOwen

I've just been lurking in this thread but wanted to give a quick I totally understand. Or how about those who know your child is delayed in a certain area but continues to brag about what *her* dc can do and how *her* dc says way more words than your dc does (and is a year younger). And it wouldn't even be that bad if it wasn't ds's freaking AUNT who was doing it :

Or those who insist your dc is fine and that you should stop "making things up" Yeah, because I find some sort of joy out of making my ds go through all this testing/therapy/school crap

LOL...I just wanted to point out that I wasn't the aunt in question. :

I *hate* the whole "oh your kid is fine...einstein/bill gates/insert famous person here had this or that and look where they ended up". Yeah, good and fine, but *my* kid's not einstein and I really would like him to get the help he needs and not hold off on the one in a million chance that he really *is* just some misunderstood rocket scientist...