What do you consider "special needs"? - Page 5

[monday's child]

Originally Posted by alegna

sorry.... it's just been a bit harsh around here... :

But sometimes, you just have to realize that you've made your point and then walk away. Not everyone is going to see things from your pov. I'm not in any way taking your side of the argument, because I too am not understanding why they'd put gifted children in the same forum as children with developmental/physical disabilities. I'm not saying that they both don't have special parenting challenges, but they are different in very many ways - more differences than likenesses.

What I am saying is that sometimes, it's not worth it to always have the last word. It just riles things up more and doesn't solve anything.

[alegna]

I will not walk away until parents of gifted kids have a safe space on MDC free from attacks. It's not right that we have to keep explaining and defending that our children DO have special needs. If you don't want us in the forum with medically fragile children, then create a forum for medically fragile children. If you don't want us in a forum with disabled children, then create a forum for disabled children. But, like it or not, it is widely accepted that gifted children DO have "Special Needs" and it's not right that parents of these children have to defend their existence in the catagory.

-Angela

[Treasuremapper]

I like and respect all these parents of gifted kids. Angela and Darshani in particular have attracted my attention on numerous occasions because of their thoughtful, intelligent, compassionate posts on various subjects. In the case of Angela, I have even quoted her in real life and on boards (her famous and brilliant "I am the mama" is classic). I have always enjoyed Lady Marmalade's style of writing and her insights.

I want Angela to be happy. I can't even believe I disagree with her about anything ever since most of her posts cause me to go "oh my gosh, is how does she even think of such great ideas!!" or "right on!" I have even seen threads where Angela has not yet posted, but that are just crying out for her special touch and thought "where is Angela? she needs to be on this thread."

But in this case, I very respectfully disagree with Angela. The term "special needs" doesn't have much special significance for me on a personal level. My opinion is just based on the traditional use of the word, when it was first coined to be a euphemism for children with disabilities or medical or educational needs. My feeling is that if the mothers of kids with disabilities want to use that expression, which has long been the pc expression, then why not just go ahead and let them use it? Parents of gifted kids have their own challenges. They deserve to have their own space, not long meandering threads. How about a subforum of special needs? Would that work?

[Finch]

.....where did I put those puppets?

[Treasuremapper]

Finch, did you write that fabulous essay in your sig line?

Either way, it's very interesting.

Now, back to our regular thread.

[monday's child]

Originally Posted by alegna

I will not walk away until parents of gifted kids have a safe space on MDC free from attacks. It's not right that we have to keep explaining and defending that our children DO have special needs. If you don't want us in the forum with medically fragile children, then create a forum for medically fragile children. If you don't want us in a forum with disabled children, then create a forum for disabled children. But, like it or not, it is widely accepted that gifted children DO have "Special Needs" and it's not right that parents of these children have to defend their existence in the catagory.

-Angela

I guess you missed a line I wrote, so I'll quote myself -

I'm not saying that they both don't have special parenting challenges, but they are different in very many ways - more differences than likenesses.

What I have found interesting in this whole debate is that people want to be catagorized within special needs yet feel that their children shouldn't be labeled or that ALL children are gifted/have special needs.

Obviously none of us can agree on anything.

But this isn't a forum for "medically fragile" children. A child with speech delays is not at a medical risk persay. Also, a child with allergies can be considered "medically fragile" yet not be considered "special needs" - special diet, yes.

Labeling the forum "disabled children" is also not a good term, mainly b/c I think it would be confusing - would it mean physically disabled? mentally disabled? Both? Would one consider an autistic child "disabled"? Some of their parents may not agree with that.

Again, in risk of repeating myself - I never said gifted children don't have special needs. Nor did I say or even imply that the parents should be kicked off of MDC. I don't see anyone doing that - in fact, it looks like their issues are being addressed so they can have a forum of their own where they can hold real discussions instead of being limited to one or two threads. And let's be honest, some gifted kids don't have the emotional/psychological issues like SIDS or anxiety that others do - they're just "normal" kids with higher than average IQ's, and maybe their parents don't feel right posting on a "special needs" board, but would enjoy a "gifted children's" board.

But obviously, it is an issue, the two groups both here on one board. It has been stated that it pains people just to see the gifted kids thread - not read it, just see the header of the thread. Should their feelings not be considered as much as the gifted parents feelings? Do they not have the right to express themselves also? Should one groups feelings be considered more important than the others?

Or should a happy medium be found?

Yes, all the parents here are dealing with special challenges. But they're for the most part, two different ends of the spectrum, two different sets of challenges. Equal challenges? Maybe? Equally important to the parents involved? Definitely. However, it's sort of like women complaining about their breast size. Yes, we all have breasts, but it's vastly different to live with large ones or extremely small ones. Yes, we both have problems in the fitting room of Victoria's Secret, but they're different problems. It's the same problem - unhappiness with breast size - but two different camps, different complaints, dilema's, clothing issues.

How's that for an analogy?

Again, I do feel like this is beating the proverbial dead horse at this point - maybe since you feel so passionately about this, your time would be better served addressing your issues with the moderators than picking apart each and every thread. Or even explain to us what special needs your gifted child has - maybe we can better understand where your coming from with that.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by monday's child

What I have found interesting in this whole debate is that people want to be catagorized within special needs yet feel that their children shouldn't be labeled or that ALL children are gifted/have special needs.

I have no problems with lables. I find them useful. And I don't think all children are gifted or have special needs.

Originally Posted by monday's child

But obviously, it is an issue, the two groups both here on one board. It has been stated that it pains people just to see the gifted kids thread - not read it, just see the header of the thread. Should their feelings not be considered as much as the gifted parents feelings? Do they not have the right to express themselves also? Should one groups feelings be considered more important than the others?

Of course their feelings should be considered. I have no desire to cause hurt to anyone. However, what if we're given a sub-forum under special needs- will that cause the same hurt? Will we be right back here a year from now with the same argument? Because a year ago this discussion was had, we were allowed threads in SN and here we are. We didn't go into other threads and "brag" we were in our own thread. It's the mere presence of that thread that is causing hurt. How will a forum not do the same?

Originally Posted by monday's child

Again, I do feel like this is beating the proverbial dead horse at this point - maybe since you feel so passionately about this, your time would be better served addressing your issues with the moderators than picking apart each and every thread. Or even explain to us what special needs your gifted child has - maybe we can better understand where your coming from with that.

I have addressed the issue with the moderators and given them my ideas on what may or may not work and some factors in that. As to my child, I hardly feel comfortable opening myself up to that, since it's been made very clear that I would be bragging as my child can not have special issues because of being gifted.

-Angela

[monday's child]

However, what if we're given a sub-forum under special needs- will that cause the same hurt?

I was under the impression that Special Needs was a sub-forum of Parenting, and that Gifted Kids would just be a sub-forum of Parenting as well. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I got b/c people brought up the same issue that you did - that putting it as a sub-forum of SN's would cause issues.

As to my child, I hardly feel comfortable opening myself up to that, since it's been made very clear that I would be bragging as my child can not have special issues because of being gifted.

How can it be bragging when I've asked you? I didn't mean "List everything your child is capable of doing" but what her special needs are. Does she have SID? Does her intelligence cause her to be more aware of things around her therefore causing her to be more anxious? Is it hard to keep her from getting bored?

How about I start then? My second grader reads (and comprehends) at a seventh grade level. He is fascinated by wildlife and meteorology will correct you on the different species of frogs and the proper names of clouds. But he has no clue how to raise his hand and ask to use the bathroom in class. Or remember to turn in his homework. He couldn't understand why he needed to wear a coat when it was 30 degrees out, yet recognizes the egg sack of a spider and knows not to touch it. If he becomes a professor someday, he will be the proverbial absent-minded one. He's also in speech therapy because of slight pervasion language disorder.

My biggest issue with him this year was his flaky teacher who decided he was a disorganized kid (true) who wouldn't pay attention (not true - he does pay attention, just doesn't appear to be.) The biggest problem I think was that since he didn't require a lot of attention from her as he was doing so well academically on his own and is not a trouble-maker, that she just didn't make an effort with him or give him the right attention. And he knew she wasn't paying close attention to him so manipulated that situation. The speech therapist even intervened and told the teacher that we were parents who were willing to work with her on issues if she let us in on them - but we wouldn't hear of issues except for notes on the report card that he wasn't turning in homework, or not even that (I had to hear it from the ST that he wasn't doing his journal work - b/c the teacher didn't check it.)

Would I consider him special needs? No. He's special, that's for sure. And he does require creative parenting. Maybe others would classify him as having special needs, and that's okay, but I don't see it in him.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by monday's child

I was under the impression that Special Needs was a sub-forum of Parenting, and that Gifted Kids would just be a sub-forum of Parenting as well. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I got b/c people brought up the same issue that you did - that putting it as a sub-forum of SN's would cause issues.

It's been suggested a couple of different ways- either as you say above, OR as Special Needs then with a subforum under it of Gifted (which IMO would be the most accurate way to do it, though either is fine with me)

HowEVER it is done I think we need some no-nonsense stickies protecting mamas who post there from flaming, etc.

-Angela

[krissi]

Of course their feelings should be considered. I have no desire to cause hurt to anyone. However, what if we're given a sub-forum under special needs- will that cause the same hurt? Will we be right back here a year from now with the same argument? Because a year ago this discussion was had, we were allowed threads in SN and here we are. We didn't go into other threads and "brag" we were in our own thread. It's the mere presence of that thread that is causing hurt. How will a forum not do the same?

All this stuff doesn't bother me on the same level as it does for some people but I do agree that parents of gifted children deserve their own forum. Yes, I believe gifted children have special needs and special challenges. I do not think they have a whole lot of similarity to the challenges of children with disabling special needs, which is all the more reason why they deserve their own forum.

Here's another analogy. I moderate a miscarriage forum on another site. I once dealt with a problem that someone had a signature file in that forum that had a photo of a baby. Some members were upset. Images of babies in someplace that is supposed to be a support forum causes pain for some women who have had miscarriages. So I asked people to disable their signatures and not post photos of babies in that forum. Members would never have gone on the rest of the site and demanded that no one be allowed to post photos of babies anywhere and that babies not be allowed to exist, but they wanted that forum to be free of photos of babies because it hurt them to see reminders of what they did not have. I did not think it was an unreasonable request.

I think that's what people here are saying. Not that parents of gifted children shouldn't dare to exist and have a place to post, but they want this forum to be for special needs of the disabling variety. I haven't seen anyone saying that parents of gifted children shouldn't have a place to post at all. I would think a dedicated forum would be much more supportive for parents of gifted children too so that they shouldn't feel obligated to restrict all of their posts to one or two threads...and they could also feel free to discuss their children's accomplishments without offending anyone.

I know gifted children have special needs. I was a gifted child. I test with an IQ of 140 on a bad day and 160 when my brain is working at full capacity. I wouldn't call it a disability but I would call it a major source of stress. I hated school and only completed college because I discovered distance learning. I can't stand to work in an office because I struggle greatly with typical social interaction. I have trouble talking to people, even DH sometimes, because I can't formulate my thoughts into spoken words so I come across in person as being weird because I can't engage in friendly chit chat without sounding and feeling totally awkward and don't have a whole lot of interest in that type of conversation, which has always made it hard to make friends even online. So I know there are plenty of special needs involved in being gifted. But my view of the term "Special Needs" when I hear it is that it is the PC term for what used to be called "handicapped" or "delayed" or "disabled." Giftedness is a different kind of special needs than the former and these parents deserve their own space.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by monday's child

How can it be bragging when I've asked you? I didn't mean "List everything your child is capable of doing" but what her special needs are. Does she have SID? Does her intelligence cause her to be more aware of things around her therefore causing her to be more anxious? Is it hard to keep her from getting bored?

My dd is still young, and thankfully has not yet had extensive problems, though I am still not comfortable at this point discussing them in the current climate. How about I list some issues with other gifted children I've worked with through the years...

Okay- I typed several pages worth and then thought better of it. Anyone who doesn't understand and is truly interested in what special needs gifted kids might have is invited to pm me. I don't feel up for the backlash right now.

-Angela

[USAmma]

It appears that the locked thread under Q&S is being continued here. Please understand we are revisiting this issue and are considering all sides. This is not the place to debate what belongs in this forum and what doesn't. Please direct your concerns to the Admins at this point and know that the mod team is thinking long and hard about your concerns and feelings. Things like this take time to consider, and debating it back and forth at this point is not going to do anything except cause hurt feelings.

This thread is locked until I get a chance to review it and remove any posts that are inappropriate in this forum, which should be a forum of support for all parents of children that they consider have special needs.