Is unschooling really a good idea? - Page 30

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by slightly crunchy

Yes, and then there are those, like in my own family of origin, where my sibling and I decided what instruments we wanted to play, BEGGED our parents to pay for lessons and buy instruments, and were requested many a time to please STOP practicing and do something else. LOL

Ah, yes... But I think I can one up you . I was always dying to study an instrument, and when I was around eight or nine, my school sent out a notice that they were going to be able to provide free violin lessons if we would just pay for rent of the violin. I loved the violin! But my parents said we couldn't afford the (really low) rental fee, which I knew perfectly well was just a way to brush it off because they didn't think it was necessary or particularly desirable. Later, our next door neighbor, like a grandmother to me, tried to give me - I said GIVE me! - her fabulous upright grand piano. My mother said we didn't have anywhere to put it - also not true . I finally got to take lessons in 7th grade, but, without a piano, that meant practicing in one of the classrooms while all my friends were on the playground. So my son, of course, was always offered (okay, nudged toward) opportunities to study one instrument after another - and, of course, he really wasn't particularly interested . But I was just thinking earlier today that I might just take up violin lessons again - I started them some years back and was too distracted with other things. - Lillian

[cottonwood]

Originally Posted by Nora'sMama

I know for sure that if I had been left to my own devices I would not have progressed nearly as far as I did. [...] I am intensely grateful for having had the discipline of studying the piano, and even though I didn't get as far with it as I would have liked I went farther than I did with most things. I have always attributed this to the fact that I was encouraged by my mother and reminded constantly about why I was studying and how important it was to practice.

This is a really foreign mindset for unschoolers. They simply don't think this way. I'm interested in a lot of things that it would be great to be proficient at, but I wouldn't want someone to push me in them. First of all, I see a real danger in beginning to feel that you're dependant on that, like you *need* to be pushed in order to accomplish anything. I know I am capable of making my life and want to remain so, and if I start believing I need to be pushed, I have to also believe I'm not capable of making my own life. It's inaccurate, and for me, to believe it would be (has been) disempowering and limiting.

Second, for me there's a lack of authenticity in having a skill in something that wasn't internally motivated. I think it would be nice to be able to play the cello, but I never had that internal motivation, and for someone to have pushed me to spend time on that for the sake of having the skill in itself, to me would feel wrong and lacking somehow. Every moment is important, and I want every moment to be authentic, coming from a place of real need and desire. When I compare skills I have that were externally motivated (coerced) and skills that I have that were internally motivated, the latter are far more valuable to me because all along there was that love and compellingness driving the thing. For me the journey is at least as important as the goal, colors the goal, makes it what it is. Superficially two people with the same skill might look the same, but internally it might not be the same thing at all. And to me, it matters greatly what it looks like internally. I want my kids to know that authenticity, to have it, to not waste life on anything less.

[Dar]

Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama

Well, I got my shots. Can never be too careful around the rabid unschoolers. The kind of company I've been keeping lately...

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Lillian, I always wanted to study an instrument, too, and my parents just weren't willing to provide that. I did get pinao lessons briefly at 16, when I was in foster care, and I learned enough to be able to pick out some vocal warmups for Rain. Someday I'll do more...

Rain has taken voice and guitar, and would like to take piano... but she'd also like to play soccer, take 10 hours of dance a week, take some college classes, take painting and ceramics classes, audition for and be in plays, and a zillion more things. If her heart was set on piano I'd find a way, but it doesn't appear to actually be in the top ten right now...

dar

[Nora'sMama]

fourlittlebirds, I totally respect where you are coming from and I understand what you're saying. However, I only have my feelings about playing the piano to go by, and I most emphatically do not believe that I am missing some layer of experience because every practice session was not internally motivated.

I feel, OTOH, so grateful to my mother - I feel she gave me an incredible gift, or allowed me to find it within myself to give that gift to myself. It sounds cheesy, but when I sit down and breathlessly play through a Scarlatti sonata, or pound out that Rachmaninoff prelude that sounds like a guy clawing his way out of a grave, when I feel angry...or when I sit down and play some Ragtime and my mood instantly lifts...I feel like I'm on another plane, and I think about how lucky I am to have this skill that brings me such joy. I do really feel that if my mom hadn't been a partner in my musical education, if she hadn't constantly reminded me to practice and why that was important, that I wouldn't have this skill and my life would be impoverished for the lack.

However, I always loved piano, and I was the one who originally clamored for lessons. I can see that if someone had been forced to practice day after day at something they hated, they would not get the same kind of joy out of exercising the skill that resulted from their forced study.

[flyingspaghettimama]

My daughter is currently taking fiddle. Not violin, mind you - she only wanted to learn fiddle, so she can play like Alison Krauss (OF COURSE). So we had to look for a month or so to find a fiddle teacher who works with kids. She goes once a week, and the teacher asks her to practice for 20 minutes every day. Sometimes she forgets, and sometimes she practices for a very short time and asks if she's done yet. I remind her that fiddling isn't for me, it's for her - and anytime she wants to stop, we can - but I'm not going to nag her to practice. She does ask us to help her "remember" to practice before bedtime, and her favorite thing is to play for us, however. traumatic. that. is. for. baby brother...

So it's a balancing act at our house - but I remind her that the ultimate choice is up to her whether or not to practice daily (sometimes she does skip, and decides to practice twice as long the next day). I'm not going to make her take lessons, or practice; but I also don't want to pay rental fees for an instrument sitting in the corner. And most importantly, I let her know that I won't be disappointed in a choice to quit (she worries about this). It's truly her gig. But I'll happily pay fees and lessons, as long as it's something she's interested in. Although I sorta wish she could find a less expensive undertaking.

[Nora'sMama]

Flyingspaghettimama: fiddling is exceedingly cool. I commend your daughter's choice of instrument.

I love the piano, but I also studied violin. However, I couldn't get past the squeaky stage and quit.

I should emphasize that no one *forced* me to practice or stay with lessons, but I was *strongly* encouraged. I never felt like I was learning piano for anyone but me. Maybe that is why I don't have negative feelings about it. When I didn't like my teacher, my mom looked for a new one for me who would be less intense. She let me take a year off in 8th grade when I just was *really* burnt out and also wanted to have more time to do theater.

She did have me set a timer every day to practice, but I could always negotiate if I really really didn't feel like it. And often I did 15 minutes a day of what she considered 'real' practicing and played for an hour or two just for my pleasure.

LillianJ, you should totally take up the violin again. Perhaps it will inspire your ds.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Nora'sMama

I find it even harder to focus now...in fact way harder...I'm very undisciplined these days; I always go for the instant gratification (MDC ) rather than putting in the hard work for something that may or may not come to fruition.

I think I'm the type of person who needs to give up some of my autonomy in order to have structure imposed from outside myself. I do not do well with self-directed learning.

I'm not buying any of this because you have a life partner, a baby, and I assume a home to run. You have worked very hard and most likely spent lots of time learning new things over the last couple of years. Since you hang out on MDC, I would venture that you've spent a lot of time researching parenting options, weighing them, and drawing conclusions. And I'm guessing that you've done all this hard work and learning because you thought it was important, not because some one made you.

[Nora'sMama]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

I'm not buying any of this because you have a life partner, a baby, and I assume a home to run. You have worked very hard and most likely spent lots of time learning new things over the last couple of years. Since you hang out on MDC, I would venture that you've spent a lot of time researching parenting options, weighing them, and drawing conclusions. And I'm guessing that you've done all this hard work and learning because you thought it was important, not because some one made you.

Hmmm...in a way, that's true! I should have qualified my statement. For some things I am able to focus and stay motivated for long periods of time. This includes reading and posting on message boards. However, for other types of activities which are just as valuable if not more so, and which I judge to be important, I have a really hard time staying focused if there is not a structure to work within. I had a hard time in college. It wasn't the reading, or the interest - I was very interested in all of the subjects I studied - but the time management eluded me, the organization, the focus. Writing was very hard for me to do for more than a few minutes at a time.

For me, thinking something is important is just the first step. I often don't go past that step to actually accomplish it, unless I "have" to. I know that not everyone is like this, and maybe I'm like this because of environmental factors when I was a child...but I think it's also my temperament.

[Chanley]

I have not read the entire gazillion pages of this thread.

You cannot compare a child who is in ps to an unschooled child (or a deschooled then unschooled child). I believe that we are innately curious about our world and what happens in our lives. I think that when this is encouraged and the seeds of curiosity are given the room to grow and blossom, it is impossible not to pick up life skills and learn the basics.

My dd taught herself to read at 3. I was busy researching reading curriculums and methods while she taught herself with a leap pad writing desk and a bunch of Clifford books. My son will probably be later as he does not learn the same way, but he is still curious.

I simply cannot imagine a child growing up in a house where the parents read and the child grows up to be illiterate.

Conventionally schooled children often lose that love of learning because they have been MADE to learn when they were not ready.

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by Chanley

I simply cannot imagine a child growing up in a house where the parents read and the child grows up to be illiterate.

Well put. I almost spit out a cold drink when I read that from bursting into laughter - just because of being suddenly struck by the simple truth and obviousness that somehow escapes so many. A family is an organic living, moving, growing unit - there's constant interaction, sharing, reaction, influence, give and take, ebb and flow... An unschooling family respectfully utilizes what's there more than imposing the structure of a system that's been developed for educating the masses in sets of 20-35 captive children at a time.

- Lillian

[Lillian J]

Here's a refreshing article - it's Mary Griffith's explanation as to why it's so hard to come up with a definition of unschooling, but she does cite some things she found in common among the respondents to her questionnaires when she was compiling The Unschooling Handbook. Very interesting: On Unschooling

Lillian