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Sex Before Marraige... Mamabug told me to repost here.... - Page 8

post #141 of 158
I started my period at 12.. but I had been sexually precocious before that, started masturbating much, much, much younger. I lost my virginity at 17 (5 torturous years) but didn't get married until this past year at 31. I'm trying to imagine having waited almost TWENTY YEARS from onset of sexual maturity to get married and am completely unable to do so. The mind boggles!

Not only that, but the guy I lost my virginity to... well, he was fine, we dated for a year and a half, but he was not for me in the end... nor was he a very good lover. Definitely would've been a marriage doomed for failure! I sure am glad I didn't wind up with him... my perfect person was waiting for me.

As for the idea of "irresponsible pregnancy." That phrase makes me a little bonkers. How about "accidental" or "unplanned?" Not all pregnancies are due to irresponsible behavior. I could debate this literally all day but it is off-topic... however I think it's more than a little insulting to imply that someone who gets pregnant when they don't mean to is irresponsible. Our success at thwarting our biology varies depending on umpteen million factors, IMO.

I have thought a LOT recently about the gap between onset of sexual maturity and the age at which more and more women get in a relationship and have babies... these days more and more women start having babies when I did, at 31, not at 14! More and more women are waiting until they are done with college, fairly settled in career, etc. I hope our biology catches up with us eventually... I guess we only have a few thousand years to wait!

The things I wish had been different about my OWN experience... I wish I had had not only education (which I had plenty of), I wish I had had the self-esteem and confidence to DEMAND condom use every time, which I did not have. I personally feel this is one of the biggest barriers for girls using condoms or other birth control. So there's more to preparing a person than only education, and I hope I can get that right for my kids and they are able to talk to me and be honest with me, whatever THEY decide is right for them. Personally for ME... I would much rather my kids experiment with sex in a safe way then get stuck in a marriage that is not right for them simply because they were horny. I know it was tough for me to think straight when my entire brain was being controlled by my ****! (That doesn't only happen to men. At least, not in my experience!)
post #142 of 158
I wholeheartedly agree with you, Jessy1019! I actually don't want my kids to wait until marriage, cause I just don't think they should. Like Jessy, I also hope they get to experiment (safely) with sex much more than I did (and I admit that I had alot of partners). I firmly believe that you need to know what you like and want before you commit yourself to a more permanent relationship. Let's admit it: sex is an important (and fun!) part of life, and as long as you know and follow the safeguards, why not enjoy it? Why wait artificially until marriage? It just isn't realistic.
And I just don't want that for my kids. They deserve to have a healthy sex life, and in our family belief system, that happens to include sex before marriage.
post #143 of 158
I started my period at 12.. but I had been sexually precocious before that, started masturbating much, much, much younger. I lost my virginity at 17 (5 torturous years) but didn't get married until this past year at 31. I'm trying to imagine having waited almost TWENTY YEARS from onset of sexual maturity to get married and am completely unable to do so. The mind boggles!

I started at ten. It wasn't easy for many reasons. My sisters started in their teens (one was 15 and one 13, IIRC). Our mother had no idea why my moods were so "different" than my sisters had been at ages 10-16.

I wanted to have babies at 14. I was a DD at 11. Nobody took my sexuality seriously (except to ridicule, belittle, or yell), because they had no idea that a preteen could experience those hormones.

My father actually sat down with me one day when I was 15 and we talked about Juliet and how she was 13 when she was looking to marry Romeo...and he actually said it was normal (finally!) to have these feelings. He also said it was important to NOT act on them, which was completely unhelpful.

This thread has really given me much more confidence in my girls' ability to enjoy their sexual natures as they grow. As it is, my 13.5yo has yet to start her cycles, and I wouldn't be surprised if my 10 (almost 11 yo) begins cycling before or at the same time as her older sister.

I am really happy this thread is here.

love, penelope
post #144 of 158
Peace.
post #145 of 158
This thread is really interesting. My dd is 7 now, and perhaps because my life/work revolves around pregnancy and birth, we have already had the sex talk and I consider her to be extremely well informed. Of course, I let her lead on the questions or else I probably wouldn't have brought up the subject just yet, and I definitely try to give age appropriate answers. I also have discussed the fact that not all children are as knowledgable about sex, and not all of their parents are ready to explain it to their kids. We have agreed that it is always best for parents to tell their kids about sex, so she doesn't talk about it to friends of hers. She is also fascinated by childbirth videos- her favorite is the Russian Watrebirth one. (Somewhat OT, I know!)

What I teach my daughter, and will continue to, is to respect her body and other's. Sex has a lot of emotional and physical implications, and I don't believe that younger teens are ready to take on that responsibility. My daughter has met some of my the residents that I work with when I volunteer at AIDScare. She also has met alot of teen moms and pregnant teens I work with.

Instead of teaching her no sex before marriage- I have never been married BTW!...I just try to give her real life examples that sex is about a lot more than just that immediate moment and lust/pleasure. I am trying to build a strong foundation now so that I can feel confident that she is making the right choices for herself for her future. I want my daughter to have a healthy sex life when she is old enough to handle it. Sexual experimentation can be a postive thing in people's lives; it definitely has been in mine. I will continue to educate her about STD's- we have touched on some things but once she is a bit older we will definitely expand on it.

Obviously I don't have all the answers, and I will see how everything turns out when she is older. Maybe I am naive, but I think she will get to a point in her life where she is able to figure out when she is ready to have sex and with who. Personally, I don't think that sex has to go together with love...and honestly I am not ready to have that conversation right now!...but I have never been one to teach sex ed in a way that sex=llove, because that is how I think a lot of girls go wrong. (I'm talking about the way of explaining sex as "When two people are in love...")

Ok, I'll shut up now.
post #146 of 158
Penelope, I'm sorry you went through that... shucks I'm sorry I went through years of going BONKERS seeking some kind of sexual release. Looking back it's actually pretty amazing that I didn't do something really dangerous over it... I think that had more to do with my own insecurity over my appearance than it did over any *wisdom* on my part. If I coulda younger than 17, I guarantee I woulda! I lost my virginity the first night I "hooked up" with a guy and I was like LET'S GO!!!! I never felt any regrets whatsoever either.

It's absolutely ignorant to expect that kids don't have sexual feelings. Baby girls are born with all the eggs they will ever have... we are sexual beings from the moment of creation! At least we could tell our kids it's ok to masturbate or something. I would've given ANYTHING in the UNIVERSE for someone to have handed me a vibrator!!!!!! (Now, I have puh-lenty!!!!)

I respect anyones right to teach their kids whatever they like; but to me, waiting until marriage would've more likely lead me into marriage with someone, anyone, just desperate for the SEX part of it... the marriage would've been secondary and probably unhealthy and probably ended quickly. I'm glad that I did it backwards... jumped into exploring my sexuality and waited to get married until I found THE RIGHT person.
post #147 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by prettypixels
Penelope, I'm sorry you went through that... shucks I'm sorry I went through years of going BONKERS seeking some kind of sexual release. Looking back it's actually pretty amazing that I didn't do something really dangerous over it... I think that had more to do with my own insecurity over my appearance than it did over any *wisdom* on my part. If I coulda younger than 17, I guarantee I woulda! I lost my virginity the first night I "hooked up" with a guy and I was like LET'S GO!!!! I never felt any regrets whatsoever either.

It's absolutely ignorant to expect that kids don't have sexual feelings. Baby girls are born with all the eggs they will ever have... we are sexual beings from the moment of creation! At least we could tell our kids it's ok to masturbate or something. I would've given ANYTHING in the UNIVERSE for someone to have handed me a vibrator!!!!!! (Now, I have puh-lenty!!!!)

I respect anyones right to teach their kids whatever they like; but to me, waiting until marriage would've more likely lead me into marriage with someone, anyone, just desperate for the SEX part of it... the marriage would've been secondary and probably unhealthy and probably ended quickly. I'm glad that I did it backwards... jumped into exploring my sexuality and waited to get married until I found THE RIGHT person.

Oh, I hear you! I got called a slut, a whore, you name it, in SIXTH grade, even though I didn't know what t hose words meant...all because of my cleavage. I clearly remember boys making fun of me in ways that I only understood when I got older ("Come sit on my lap and we'll see what pops up," etc), and if my mother had been honest with me, I'd have been stronger and more prepared. Even though I had two elder sisters, I was constantly taken for the eldest of the family...

A few other homeschooling mothers of daughters here in Fairbanks are planning a celebration for our daughters...in the next three weeks. I'm in charge of the planning, and the celebration is for all the daughters, ranging in age from 7 to 13.5. I'm excited and a little nervous.

It can be tough to overcome the way I was raised...but I'm trying.

love, penelope
post #148 of 158
Prettypixels, don't EVER consider what you did as "doing it backwards" on the sex-before-marriage thing; in my book, you DIDN'T do it backwards...you did it the RIGHT way! I am and always will be a FIRM proponent of the sexual exploration BEFORE marriage and then the waiting until the correct marriage partner comes along. The only difference between the way you did it and the way I did it was that I chose never to get married (and never will). But I am immensely glad that I did the exploring part before settling down. If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't change a thing! And I have absolutely no regrets.
post #149 of 158
With regards to the OP, it is difficult to answer the questions because they are based in a paradigm of which I do not prescribe. Therefore, I will suffice to say that I will teach my child about love and sex, sometimes they are mutually exclusive and sometimes not; I will talk of different kinds of relationships and negotiation. Perhaps by the time a child of mine can marry, all people will be able to marry but if not, that will be a factor in the conversation too.

I don't place much worth on viriginity, as it's a pretty heterosexist and heteronormative concept.
post #150 of 158
I will encourage my children to wait. Wait until when? That is a relative term to me so to speak. I will share with them all the insight that I have gained, but will keep in mind that being interested in sex is human nature. In fact, I once heard on Paul Harvey that it was the most basic instinct and that people would have sex before they would eat? Having said that, I will also be sharing with my children my personal set of morals, value, and ethics as they grow, and I hope they will strive to develop their own and adhere to them as best they can. I know none of us our perfect, and I certainly don't expect children to be. My goodness full grown adults have trouble following rules and laws, much less expecting teens to.

I do believe that waiting is valuable. But not more valuable than choosing the right mate, or making a commitment and truly sticking to it. I want my children to also understand what marriage means/is. I do believe that the laws about marriage that govern our land really cloud the issue and detract from the sacred vows that I believe you take when you marry.

I will share my personal experiences with sex with my children. I once compared having sex with someone who you do not love with taking a pee, and it had a very profound effect on several of my friends. You can have sex for many different reasons. These are all just personal experiences from which I draw. I do know that the most important thing that I want my children to learn is that there are consequences for every action, and that you should always be willing to pay the price, if called to, for your actions.
post #151 of 158
Gee, you could cut the heterosexism in here with a knife. Thank you to those of you who acknowledged that none of us know the sexual orientations of our children, that not everyone can legally marry before or after becoming sexually active, and that sex before committing to a partner can help a person decide if the person is a good fit for them. Seriously folks, do you honestly not think that your children could grow up and be of a sexual orientation other than your own?

Oh, and comparing sex without love to taking a pee? I just don't get it?
post #152 of 158
Peeing is "taking care of business," and so is sex without love.
post #153 of 158
Thread Starter 
I get the peeing analogy.


wow, as for the heterosexual comments.


I started the post off being sexually ambiguous intentionally. And I am also hoping that by the time my kids are old enough to marry, gay lesbian and transgendered couples won't have issues getting married if they choose.


But just like hetero couples, not all gay/lesbian couples even WANT to get married. So the question was posted to the PARENTS of the children to ask what their stance on this is.


Don't know. I just don't get labeling this thread as primarily hetero is relevant. If you wish to bring up gay/lesbian issues feel free! it is MORE than welcome.


But remember, we are talking about people who are being born today and won't be having sex for about 15 years, alot can change in a decade.
post #154 of 158
Both my dh and I are in total agreement about this topic, and have been since before we were married or had munchkins. I want my kids to wait, not for marriage, but for their own readiness. If he (I have all boys lol) really feels strongly about the person (of either sex), and they feel the same, than that is his decision. But the 'test' I was told as a teen, and I think it still works, is if you do this today, will you be able to talk about it tomorrow. If you aren't comfortable talking to the person about sex, you probably should spend more time getting comfortable. Neither my dh or I waited, he had more partners than I, something we both wish to change, I little more balanced would be ok with both of us. In fact, we were together through my teens, from 15 years on. He was my second, though first that was enjoyable. And I still had very little confidence about my sexuality until ironically, a period of time where we had broken up, and I dated an ex. I learned more about myself then I had before, which ended up being great in the long run. I have already shared some info with my oldest, but since he has shown absolutely no interest and doesn't seem to listen to it, I'm assuming he isn't ready, but he'll have the info when he is and knows he can talk to me. We also aren't pushing college. If it happens to be needed for what he wants, fine, but if not thats ok too. Neither of us have a degree, and yet do very good jobs. My dh is a baker, which makes better money than I ever suspected, and when I work out of the home, I do accounting, with out a degree, and make enough also. So college isn't necissary to support a family.

I did deal with the issues mentioned about teen love. His family was great, they encouraged us, in EVERY way. They considered me the best thing to happen to him (I agree ). My family didn't support us. He was 18, I was 15. Even after my dad liked him, he still was unsure I should be dating at all. My mom just wanted me to date around, not to be serious so young. To this day, he resents some of her judging, that we were to young to know our feelings, that we couldn't really be in love, just lust, on and on. But we moved in together the day after my 18th birthday, started planning a big expensive wedding, then moved it to a small quiet (pregnant) wedding a few years later. And this month it's been 15 years, so guess we knew our selves pretty well.

What always gets me is the assumption that you have to wait to get married till you are finacialy set.I can see waiting on kids, heck, life would have been much easier if that had waited. But why not be married? (if you practice such) Or if not so much the married, but why not settle down? If we'd never had kids, I'd still want to be monogamous with my hubby, and not 'later' when we had money.

The only thing I really regret about my own history is my lack of comfort. Both of us had esteem issues (not sex specific, just completely low self esteem). And though my mom was very open about options for birthcontrol, I learned about diseases at planned parenthood. And didn't learn to be comfortable with my own sexuality really until the last 10 years, and I am glad to have shared that learning with dh, learned together was very good for our marriage, but it wouldn't have been bad to start the relationship closer to that point.
post #155 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightyferrettoes
I can't really place a value on virginity, myself, and don't see it as a "gift" to anyone.

My understanding is that virginity-before-the-wedding-night was valued primarily because it ensured that a girl wouldn't already be pregnant with another man's kid when an old dude had paid her father handsomely to marry her and own her fertility.

I think that background gives rise to our cultural ideas about how girls only have sex to seek "approval" or "love in the wrong places" and definitely shapes our vocabulary about how premarital sex "devalues" a woman.
and:
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightyferrettoes
It wasn't a matter of stifling sexuality for years on end for the sake of spiritual purity or moral fulfillment, as we seem to interpret it now, and it wasn't a matter of rules for rules' sake-- it was a matter of maintaining property values in a world that considered female virginity prime real estate. LOL.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Selu
I don't place much worth on viriginity, as it's a pretty heterosexist and heteronormative concept.


I couldn't make any of these points better than you mamas have, and I am not foolhardy enough to try.

This has turned out to be one of the best, most thought-provoking threads I've seen on MDC in a very long time.

alsoSarah
post #156 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn38
At our dc's elementary school, they teach sex ed in the 5th grade.:
Are you irked because you feel that they are starting too late, or too early?

alsoSarah
post #157 of 158
I have talked with my kids about sex being like eating. Food doesn't taste very good when you aren't hungry. You are the ONLY judge of your own appetite. Just as I would never force someone (including myself) to eat when they are not hungry, no one should ever push you to participate in sex. Most everyone will want to have sex at some point in their lives; some older, some younger. Your choice. Safety in sexuality is like making healthy choices in eating - we all need to learn what to do, how to do it responsibly.

To continue the analogy, there are many different foods out there. Just as some people prefer vegetarian versus meat, or spicey versus bland, people are attracted to different partners. Man or woman, safe or adventurous, few or many - there are many possiblities for relationships.

At the risk of stretching the food analogy past the breaking point, I liken casual vs. committed sexual relationships to the difference between a fast food burger and a steak dinner in a fine resturaunt. One can plan for, and savor a great meal, candlelit,with a fine wine. But sometimes some people enjoy a guick greasy cheeseburger. Perhaps not best for a steady, lifetime diet, but not a moral failing. It's OK to have fun!

I could ramble on, but all this talk of food has made me hungry. I'll go have breakfast now: toast with avacado and salsa. Vegetarian and spicey - draw your own conclusions!
post #158 of 158
Mmarhu, so where would a buffet fit in :

I have to say, I'm glad I found this thread. Though my own opinions are still as posted, it has been great food for thought and I think will stay in the back of my mind as my boys mature.

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