I vowed to never hit - Page 5

[kaje62]

Okay I failed to mention this but sometimes DH and I have huge blow-outs and too often in front of our little guy.

It is so sad cuz it is over the dumbest things. Last night we walked to Uptown and went out to eat and had a nice meal and then walked up to go to the movie winged migration, rated G. 1/2 way into the movie I asked DH if Charlie was poopy and he said yes very crabbily. So I knew there was no way he would go change him. So I went out 8 months preggie and sat on the floor and changed him and he was not poopy.

Anyway then Charlie was kinda squirming and stuff so I asked him if he wanted to watch the movie or go home and he said go home and then Jerry asked him again and he said go home so we packed up and got him in the stroller to walk home. As we were leaving Charlie said, "No I wanna watch the movie. No go home." And Jerry said, "open the door." And I said, "wait, once we leave the door is locked and no one is here to let us back in." And he said, "open the door." So he went out the door, which yes we were locked out. So Charlie completely flipped out. Crying we could not settle him and DH and I started arguing. I think I said he was rigid, and he told me to go to Hell and that he did not want to look at me. And I called him another name. Anyway before bed I said should we go to our counselor and he said no let's go to a lawyer. I know he does not mean that but I was crying until 1:30 in the morning and I am pregnant and this was all in front of Charlie. It sucked. We have seen 5 counselors in 8 years and I know we love each other but we do these big blow outs 4 times a year at least. I hate it.

I feel so unconnected to him with the upcoming VBAC and all. I love him but I am at my wits end

[Britishmum]

I don't know if this is any help, but a suggestion (I'm not in your shoes and have never hit my children, so this is just a suggestion from an outside point of view)

I really believe in the power of affirmation. In our house we frequently say 'In our house, we don't hit. Mummy doesn't hit, Daddy doesn't hit, dd#1 doesnt hit, and the baby doesnt hit." Or 'This is a no-hitting house"

Then the same for biting, pushing, etc, whatever is the issue with dds at the time.

Of course, the affirmation isn't yet strictly true - both dds sometimes hit, bite or push. (but neither dh or I ever do, thankfully neither of us experienced that as children so we don't struggle with this)

However, I believe that affirmations said (and read) often enough, can become true, both for adults and for children.

I'm not saying that this would solve your issues, but it might be of help at the stressful moments when either your ds hits out, or you are tempted to hit back. To use words can give power to your intentions.

HTH. Peace.

[Devi]

KJ

So sorry for what you are enduring. I know so how you feel.

Call or write if you need an ear.

D

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Um.. Can I offer an opinion?

I feel a little like I'm intruding on an established conversation, but I've just stumbled on it. Is it too late to enter? I promise I've read everything up to this point.

First, I add my "hats off" to you Kaje for dealing with the situation and being honest and open. That takes an incredible amount of strength and I admire you tremendously for it.

Second, I too am a product on an abusive upbringing and I too have sworn that I will not do the same to my kids.

Third, its really easy to see how a child's constant physical "lashing out" makes it harder on us not to respond. We are, after all, human. My son was similar in that he was very active and very physical.

So, my response was to really work with him to eliminate the hitting and biting. I used very consistant time outs, starting when he was 2. Now, I know this will get me flamed by some here, and it may or may not be the best alternative. But, it worked for us, it stopped his hurting me and it stopped the risk of my hurting him. Sounds like a win-win to me. Of course, this was in addition to listening to his needs (like being hungry), encouraging him to use words, and making very sure he got LOTS of physical exercise each day. But, when he hit or bit me, he got a 2 minute time out (chair in the dining room). I was lucky in that he would stay where I directed him, so I never had to hold him down and I could walk into the kitchen (open to dining room) to catch my breath too. I think the real key to this was that we did it every time he hit or bit, even when it made us late or was inconvenient or whatever.

Seems like maybe if you started a consistant discipline routine then the whole situation might improve and you could figure out what to do next.

[kaje62]

I have not wanted to post this cuz I want to be perfect but about a week ago, Charlie pulled my hair so hard he got a clump out. So I pulled his hair back, not real hard but he cried. I hate how I still react.

[mamacate]

I'm glad this thread got bumped.

I just posted about my DS biting, hitting, pinching, pulling hair, etc. I have not hit him, but I have responded by restraining him roughly and I even recently said to my partner "taste of his own medicine" when his twin sister bit him (I *do* make sure to try to restrain either one when biting happens--we're getting canines AND molars in my house right now). She looked at me like "did you just say that" when I said it, and I got all defensive, but now in retrospect, what was I thinking?

I feel like I'm on the same road you are, and I need to do something before I hit. I feel like I'm really good at most discipline stuff, but the stuff that feels like *violence* toward me completely pushes my buttons. I am also a survivor of an abusive family and a mentally ill parent. I did a lot of therapy before having my kids, and maybe I need to go back. I just ordered one of the books recommended here, and I have the two Kurcinka books and "Becoming the Parent You Want to Be," but at the end of the day I can barely see straight--I'm having trouble finding time to read (I'm posting from work right now--I work part-time).

This thread has really helped me see the path I'm going down and reminded me that being more *harsh* is not the answer. I got some advice to that effect on another AP list, but I think given my background it's not safe for me to take that approach. I do believe in structure and guidance for young children, and I need to figure out exactly what approach feels right for us. AP was so easy (exhausting, but simple) when they were infants. Now it's all so much more complicated.

I'm going to work on my reactions, practice detaching from my unconstructive responses, and I am going to start praying when it happens. I am not a christian, but I will look for a good diety to pray to to help me find a calm center and respond properly. And the reminder that kids need to unlearn hitting is really helpful. I was definitely getting wrapped up with *how did he get this way* and that is definitely a response to family of origin issues.

So Kaje, I don't really have any advice to you, just a reminder that your honesty has helped others, and another person promising herself that she will do better.

(((HUGS))),

Cate

[CurlyTop]

Hugs

KJ,

I'm so sorry to hear all the violence and toughness that has been shown to you, and congratulate you on being so loving that you want to stop the cycle. Seriously, I am amazed and impressed by your spirit. Being hard on yourself sounds like it comes naturally, just like the impusle to fight back.

I recommend an article:
http://parentleaders.org/articles/he...ggression.html

I have just also recommended it to Cate (who's name I love) on her thread.

The woman who writes these articles on her site is so adept at seeing us "survivor" mommies for the loving souls that we truly are, and guiding moms toward giving our children the opportunities we never had (the ability to speak up, have boundaries, be seen for ourselves, etc).

Keep up the good work, KJ, I'm behind you 100%.

Warmly,
CurlyTop

[kaje62]

curly you are so sweet, you made me cry

thank you

and i have not said this but charlie rarely hits me lately like if he does 7 times in one day at the most and maybe twice a week so it is really changing.

[spryte]

Curly top- that was A WONDERFUL article. Thanks!

[kaje62]

i have not posted here in awhile. had my baby. beautiful angelyn. she is about 8 1/2 weeks.

anyway charlie has been great with her and hard with us, lots of temper tantrums...etc...i am trying and it is so hard. i am tired, etc...

also I have not been perfect. I can't remember exactly but one night he ran from us in a parking lot and we did give him a teeny spanking on the butt

i have been threatening spankings now that he knows the word and i don't want to do that

i cannot say how much he kicks, it is driving us nuts especially with diaper changes and in bed, we all sleep together....lovely family bed

anyway i think i have said this before but maybe not on this thread but dh and i struggle too as a couple, we argue, call each other names at times...god we are the worst parents...

anyway here is what happened last night..

last night........

dh and i were arguing. I was crying and charlie kept saying, mommy teach me. i could not understand what he was saying and finally realized it was teach me...and i said teach you what

and he said....

teach me to be happy!!!!

oh my gosh that is what i need to do.

i want to ask if anyone can PM me other parenting boards were i can get support for my dh and me struggles. I want to post somewhere where no one locally knows me cuz i don't want to share the nitty gritty icky stuff with people who know him and me who may misunderstand or judge.. anyway if you have leads..please let me know

in the meantime let's work on this so we

can teach them to be happy.

[CurlyTop]

Hi KJ

KJ,

First, congratulations a hundred thousand times on the birth of your daughter. And what a beautiful name, Angelyn. I've never heard that name and it is truly lovley.

Now, on to responding to your post. I don't know of any other parenting boards (besides mainstream ones like Babycenter.com... maybe try there?) However, on teaching your DS how to be happy. Here's an idea:

There's a book and website by Byron Katie: Loving What Is (www.thework.org). Katie offers a four-question method of looking at things in life, plus a turnaround. See the site for details. She has examples of this working with little kids, however to me, the most important thing is to use it yourself. This may have a great benefit to your relationship with your dh, and also can help you set a happy example for your ds. The beauty is, it takes only YOU to make this difference. It does not matter whether DH is into it or thinks it is dumb, you make a difference for you. If, OTOH, DH is into it - you're GOLDEN!!

I want to add, making a marriage work DOES require commitment and respect from BOTH parties. What you can do without buy-in from your DH is become happy on the inside.

As for Charlie acting out, that is soooooo normal for a child with a new little sibling. Look at this article:
http://www.parentleaders.org/article...solutions.html

Last, you're doing such a great job. You're obviously a caring, thoughtful mother and wife. I hope you find encouragement and happiness very soon. You deserve it!

Yours,
CurlyTop

[kaje62]

i am nak so this will be brief

curly with the great siggie, that is exactly what i am soaking on, i need to be an example and be happy and he will, dh is willing to work on this and we have done lotsa therapy but keep struggling

thank you

[where are my keys?]

hi kaje62 i am originally from MPLS too. i cant remember the names of all the orginizations there anymore, but i know there are all kinds of cool places around....i would call united way's "first call for help" line and see if you can find a parenting group for abuse survivors, and go from there. i know you can find something like that. also look in the phone book for womens centers etc just to give them a call and see if you can find an annonymous support group that would help you meet your goals! there is a really cool group of women in MPLS that started like this radical mamas collective that might be loaded with resources. i will find out what thier name is, i have a friend there who knows about them. another place to go look is Arise! bookstore on Lyndale kinda by the Wedge in MPLS, they are conected with all these progressive groups around town and you may have luck asking them about Gentle Dicipline parenting groups or Atachment Parenting groups, or look for a La Leche League chapter maybe?

my son is waking up but i wish you the best i have read this entire thread and my heart goes out to you---gotta go!

[Guava~Lush]

I just found this thread

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You

thank you for all the books and links. I feel like I am not alone and am armed for the battle of better parenting. Healthy parenting.



kaj, hugs to you.

[kaje62]

started another related thread
would love your help mamas!

http://216.92.20.151/discussions/sho...hreadid=108019

[KateMac]

Mind another intruder?

KAJE-I've read the thread from the beginning, so I hope you don't mind the intrusion, but...

Both my parents used your father's discipline techniques, but I don't think they were so proud of it. They also offered lots of love and praise - at least as much as they could. When I had children, my mother told me that I was a better mother than she was, she was a better mother than hers, and so on. Each generation has a responsibility to become more human(e). So, when I get frustrated, I get a lot of mileage from that.

Having said that, it seems like Charlie gets lots of attention when he acts out in anger. Is this true?

Also, there are many books for adults posted here, but even small children can appreciate <u>Harriet, You'll Drive Me Wild</u>, or <u>No Biting</u> (by Katz). There are others, but I have these on my shelves, so... FWIW.

I'm struck by your honesty and integrity in posting. I think it helps all of us.

[kaje62]

i appreciate your post
what is FWIW
and not sure if i wrote this but two quotes
that have meant a lot to me

have been

hurt people hurt people
and we are all victims of victims

and i know my dad had it hard!
so did my mom for that matter

[KateMac]

FWIW - For What It's Worth

I wasn't so much referring to how hard your folks had it, but rather how you choose to improve on what you learned from them. I hoped you to think about your awareness as an improvement on your upbringing that will benefit yourself, your children, and all of society. I was inspired to make this point by your family photo. I LOVE the pic and you clearly have great joy in addition to these more difficult experiences.