atheist/agnostic tribe - Page 31

[marieangela]

Anyone involved in or know much about cub scouts/boy scouts? I automatically dismissed the idea when the paper came home from school last year and this about cub scouts. The meetings are held in a church and, for some reason, I have it in my head that there are religious leanings. I've looked on line a bit and I see things about religious emblems and religious award programs. I woudn't even be thinking about it, but the mom of one of my 2nd graders classmates mentioned something her son was doing in cub scouts when my dh was around. He thinks our son should do this and didn't realize he could start so young. I think it's too late for this year, but I'm curious what other atheists and agnostics think about cub scouts/boy scouts.

[LaFlaca1226]

Originally Posted by marieangela

I'm curious what other atheists and agnostics think about cub scouts/boy scouts.

What I understand is that the Boy Scouts of America require that scouts pledge allegiance to a Christian God. People have protested their policies regarding religion, but apparently they won't change them.

But the Girl Scouts have taken away the religious piece entirely. I am just glad that we have girls instead of boys in our family, because DH was a boy scout and I know he would want us to send our boys to boy scouts, but it would be hard for me. I will definitely send my girls to Girl Scouts.

I know there is better information out there than what I've written here. I just am too lazy to look it up right now.

[Theoretica]

Boy scouts are unapologetically anti-atheist. We refuse to participate.

Girl scouts are supposedly non religious, but it depends on the leader. Our DD was asked to leave the troop she was in, and I have a STRONG hunch it's because she made it clear our family is atheist.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by LaFlaca1226

What I understand is that the Boy Scouts of America require that scouts pledge allegiance to a Christian God.

Not the Christian God. People of all faiths are welcome in BSA. They've gone head-to-head with the UUA in the past; not sure if that was ever resolved.

They do not welcome atheists or homosexuals. DS1 participated in cub scouts for a short while before we became aware of this. He quit of his own accord when we learned of it. I was pretty proud of him, since he was only 8yo at the time.

[marieangela]

Thanks for the Boy Scouts replies. I'm thinking that I need to sit down and have a talk with my 2nd grader about religion/atheism. So far we have just lived life and not been involved in religious things at all. Hearing that the Boy Scouts organization does not welcome atheists and homosexuals really turns me against them. My husband and I are atheists, but our children are just children. They don't have any religious views of any kind yet. I had hoped to keep it that way as long as possible. I want to be able to explain my distaste and reluctance when it comes to Cub Scouts, though. Now to figure out the best way to discuss religion/atheism with a 7 1/2 year old...

[Mama Soltera]

I have a somewhat strange question for all you: How do you deal with people's "ghost stories," as in "This happened to me" or "This happened to my friend?" I have a hard time with this. I don't want people to think I'm being dismissive of their experience, but I don't know what to say (much less what to make of it!). Have any of you come up against this?

[EFmom]

Originally Posted by Mama Soltera

I have a somewhat strange question for all you: How do you deal with people's "ghost stories," as in "This happened to me" or "This happened to my friend?" I have a hard time with this. I don't want people to think I'm being dismissive of their experience, but I don't know what to say (much less what to make of it!). Have any of you come up against this?

I smile and listen, then I change the subject.

I just had my step mother tell me some story that happened to her while she was in the hospital having an operation. It is religous hospital, and they have a group that comes in and mutters mumbo-jumbo over you, waves crystals over your operation site and holds hands and sings hymns. She was telling me earnestly how this stuff made god heal her faster. I just said, "I'm glad it made you feel better." Then I changed the subject.

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by Mama Soltera

I have a somewhat strange question for all you: How do you deal with people's "ghost stories," as in "This happened to me" or "This happened to my friend?" I have a hard time with this. I don't want people to think I'm being dismissive of their experience, but I don't know what to say (much less what to make of it!). Have any of you come up against this?

I've heard a lot of ghost stories in my time. Have you tried, "Wow," or "That's crazy," or "Unbelievable," or "I can't imagine"? Really, there's no need to state your own feelings about what they say they experienced. Just listening and expressing your surprise at the story is enough, IME. If you want to hear more (or something more interesting), you can ask about the genuine part of the story (i.e., the emotional content).

[LaFlaca1226]

Originally Posted by Mama Soltera

I have a somewhat strange question for all you: How do you deal with people's "ghost stories," as in "This happened to me" or "This happened to my friend?" I have a hard time with this. I don't want people to think I'm being dismissive of their experience, but I don't know what to say (much less what to make of it!). Have any of you come up against this?

If it's a ghost story, I just say "Oooh, that's so creepy!" I agree with the pp - there's no reason to go explain that you don't believe in ghosts, unless someone asks you. The experience was real for the person telling it, and that's what's important to them as they tell it. For me, it's like when someone tells about how much God has provided for them. I would just say "That's wonderful." That's not the time to bring up your differing beliefs.

[outlier]

Originally Posted by LaFlaca1226

If it's a ghost story, I just say "Oooh, that's so creepy!" I agree with the pp - there's no reason to go explain that you don't believe in ghosts, unless someone asks you. The experience was real for the person telling it, and that's what's important to them as they tell it. For me, it's like when someone tells about how much God has provided for them. I would just say "That's wonderful." That's not the time to bring up your differing beliefs.

Agreed. I am careful not to nod along with their story, as I've found that can be misinterpreted to mean I'm agreeing with their assessment of the events in question. I usually just furrow my eyebrows and say, "Hmm..." like I'm pondering what's being said.

[Mama Soltera]

That is what I usually do, but I found it harder when a family member -- who is confused by my lack of belief -- kept asking me to explain how these people saw what they saw. Tricky! Very tricky. And sometimes, these stories are so outlandish that it is very difficult to just sit there and take it and fake a "wow!" Like molester (and rapists) ghosts who attack while you sleep.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by outlier

Agreed. I am careful not to nod along with their story, as I've found that can be misinterpreted to mean I'm agreeing with their assessment of the events in question. I usually just furrow my eyebrows and say, "Hmm..." like I'm pondering what's being said.

Yep, I do something similar.

[edytais]

Hello from Arkansas

Hello,
I have been subscribing to Mothering Magazine for years. Got tired of the same topics, so now I just discovered the forum.
So here are am introducing myself. I live in the heart of Arkansas in a small town with dh, and 3 kiddos. I think I am the only atheist homeschooler in the whole state, although it seems we are the only atheist family in the whole town of Arkadelphia! Everyone else is baptist. I must add my dd7 is going to the church choir. I feel like I am in dark ages when if you wanted to be a musician, artist or scientist you had to do it via church. Well, here I am, daughter who absoluted loves to sing has to go to church to do so.
I try to bring up my kids open minded and tolerant. I try to tell them to be respectful of other people's religious choices, however, sometimes my dh and I get into a discussion that might prove otherwise. I just can't help it and bash some of the extreme religious but hypocritical people surrounding me at times.
So.... I am having a really hard time here.
It also adds to hard time with homeschooling when ALL homeschoolers we know are super religious, and all their schooling evolves around bible study and other religious curricula. I can't share resources for homeschooling and I can't get any advice on anything because if I ask I get "pray to God, he will answer all your questions..." So I feel lonely, isolated, and as my children are growing older, they do too. So I am hoping to move out of this town, but for now I am stuck and looking for support online among like minded people.
I am into natural living style: unprocessed foods, chemical free house and toys, herbs and natural way of healing the body etc...
So, I am just looking for friends, even if it's just online
Edyta

[no5no5]

Welcome, Edyta.

[MissMaegie'sMama]

Originally Posted by edytais

Hello,
I have been subscribing to Mothering Magazine for years. Got tired of the same topics, so now I just discovered the forum.
So here are am introducing myself. I live in the heart of Arkansas in a small town with dh, and 3 kiddos. I think I am the only atheist homeschooler in the whole state, although it seems we are the only atheist family in the whole town of Arkadelphia! Everyone else is baptist. I must add my dd7 is going to the church choir. I feel like I am in dark ages when if you wanted to be a musician, artist or scientist you had to do it via church. Well, here I am, daughter who absoluted loves to sing has to go to church to do so.
I try to bring up my kids open minded and tolerant. I try to tell them to be respectful of other people's religious choices, however, sometimes my dh and I get into a discussion that might prove otherwise. I just can't help it and bash some of the extreme religious but hypocritical people surrounding me at times.
So.... I am having a really hard time here.
It also adds to hard time with homeschooling when ALL homeschoolers we know are super religious, and all their schooling evolves around bible study and other religious curricula. I can't share resources for homeschooling and I can't get any advice on anything because if I ask I get "pray to God, he will answer all your questions..." So I feel lonely, isolated, and as my children are growing older, they do too. So I am hoping to move out of this town, but for now I am stuck and looking for support online among like minded people.
I am into natural living style: unprocessed foods, chemical free house and toys, herbs and natural way of healing the body etc...
So, I am just looking for friends, even if it's just online
Edyta

That has to be a really hard situation to be in. It sounds like you are staying true to yourself despite the judgement and disapproval from those in your community. Supporting your DD's involvement in the church choir, even though you don't care for the venue, is a really selfless and loving act on your part (IMO). Your children are lucky to have you as a guide in their lives!

I am new to this thread myself, but having read through it makes me feel grateful for living in the upper midwest-- people here don't seem to be as hung up on others' religious/spiritual beliefs. Sure, there are plenty of fire-and-brimstone types, but they seem to be outnumbered by people of all faiths (including those without faith) who respect the beliefs of others (or who at least keep their disapproval to themselves ).

[livingfree]

i'm glad to have found this thread!

dh and i have recently become...non-believers? i'm not sure what word describes us best right now, lol. we both come from a very Conservative, fundamentalist background (church of Christ). as adults, we had become fairly liberal in our beliefs and our questions just ended up leading us away from Christianity. we were exploring Judaism for a while (after losing belief in Jesus) but have since come to question the existence of God(s). i guess, at the moment, i would classify myself as agnostic. i'm just not sure what i believe about a lot of things.

it's been great to read this thread. we have a 4yo dd and 1yo twin boys; our dd has been asking lots of questions lately about death and frequently talks about God/Jesus since we were regular church attenders for the first 3.5 years of her life. we have just been acting like those are stories, just like everything else we read her. she still asks for Bible stories to be read to her....we just try to gloss over it.

i do feel a bit lost as to how to fill the social gap that leaving church has left in our lives. of course, the kids keep us busy, lol. and i hope to make friends with parents at dd's preschool. but i'd love to find some local mamas who are non-believers...living in TX, we get lots of religion thrown at us all the time.

you would know...just earlier this summer, right before we really started asking the questions that led us away from religion, i got a religious tattoo on my forearm. thankfully, it's in Greek, but i always dread ppl asking me what it means....guess i'll be looking to get it covered up soon.

[CallMeMommy]

Originally Posted by marieangela

Thanks for the Boy Scouts replies. I'm thinking that I need to sit down and have a talk with my 2nd grader about religion/atheism. So far we have just lived life and not been involved in religious things at all. Hearing that the Boy Scouts organization does not welcome atheists and homosexuals really turns me against them. My husband and I are atheists, but our children are just children. They don't have any religious views of any kind yet. I had hoped to keep it that way as long as possible. I want to be able to explain my distaste and reluctance when it comes to Cub Scouts, though. Now to figure out the best way to discuss religion/atheism with a 7 1/2 year old...

Ugh, this is what makes it so hard for me. I'm an Atheist, DH is a lapsed Catholic, and we don't attend church at all (well, DH went to Easter services at the Lutheran church across the street from our house last year, but that's it). I hate feeling like I'm punishing my child for my beliefs because he SO SO SO wants to join Boy Scouts, but I can't endorse an organization like that. Especially one that excludes *me*. How am I supposed to participate with my son with a clear conscience? I wish I was in an urban area with Spiral Scouts or something similar, but we're in rural Minnesota where nothing like that exists and nobody would even join if I started a group. The whole situation ticks me off.

[Eyelet]

Originally Posted by CallMeMommy

Ugh, this is what makes it so hard for me. I'm an Atheist, DH is a lapsed Catholic, and we don't attend church at all (well, DH went to Easter services at the Lutheran church across the street from our house last year, but that's it). I hate feeling like I'm punishing my child for my beliefs because he SO SO SO wants to join Boy Scouts, but I can't endorse an organization like that. Especially one that excludes *me*. How am I supposed to participate with my son with a clear conscience? I wish I was in an urban area with Spiral Scouts or something similar, but we're in rural Minnesota where nothing like that exists and nobody would even join if I started a group. The whole situation ticks me off.

My husband and I are both pretty hardcore atheists, and our son *really* wanted to join Boy Scouts. We also live in a more rural area, and there's not any similar organizations for children to join. After much thought, and with my son *begging* to join, we let him. I think it really depends on each individual troop, but our local one doesn't push the religious stuff. DS is working on becoming an Eagle Scout, an the religious badge is optional. We obviously opted out.
Sometimes there are badge requirements that we don't necessarily agree with, but we discuss them with DS and explain opposing views. Many badges in Boy Scouts are optional and can be skipped if they're offensive to our views.
Overall, we're cautiously happy about our decision to let DS join as he has learned many valuable skills, including first aid, wilderness survival skills, public speaking, etc. He also enjoys the many camping trips and volunteer requirements. In our situation, the positives of joining overcomes the negatives. However, if our local troop were more religious focused, I doubt I'd feel the same.

[sammymama]

Hi there,

Been awhile since I popped over to this forum, nice to see that it is still active!

Just thought I'd share:
After living in the DC-Metro area for the past 3 years (relocating from San Francisco), my DH and I are *still* experiencing culture shock. Tonight we saw a store stocking it's shelves with a bunch of "reason for the season" manger-covered bumper stickers. (We had never seen those before moving here; the cars here become plastered with them right about this time of year!!) It kills me that this particular slogan is slathered all over the cars - the cars of quite possibly the most aggro drivers on the planet! These people drive like maniacs - speed, don't use turn signals, cut each other off, honk the INSTANT the light turns green, yell/swear out the window, flip the bird, etc. So I just think it's funny when drivers behave like that, then turn a corner to reveal their godly bumper sticker. Lol!

[pumpkin]

Marking the winter solstice?

We celebrate Christmas as a cultural holiday with our families. I would like to start a tradition of acknowledging the winter solstice as the real impetus of the holiday season. The science lesson will come eventually. For now I am looking for a fun way to celebrate the 21st with DD. Any ideas?
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