atheist/agnostic tribe - Page 5

[ferretfan]

hi

can i join?

i grew up in a very secular environment in the UK, although my primary school (read: grade) was church of england, as are most, so we said prayers and sang hymns every day, and celebrated the christian holidays. i learnt all about god and jesus and all that other fun stuff. but as i grew my interest turned to the dark side of it, the devil, demons, and hell, and i managed to scare my mum pretty good with all my carryings on then as i grew more i realized i was an atheist

i now live in the US with catholic raised dh (seems everyone in these parts are catholic) who is now best described as agnostic. we didnt baptise our dd and the inlaws about flipped and because we dont vax either MILs comment was "you'd better pray that nothing happens to that baby". ummmm, yah, because babies always go to hell when they're not baptised.....

dd is a few weeks shy of 3. i am wondering how she's going to react to the prayers that dh's family say when we all have (rare) meals together. she's at that age now where she's curious about things.

we have addressed the death issue with her. last year one of our ferrets died and we told her that it went to live in the sky. she was only just two at the time and i was at a loss of what to say to her when she noticed her pet wasn't there any more. i didnt' want to pull the 'heaven' card atall, but didn't want to say anything that might be scary to her little mind.

she still talks about that ferret, and now we've elaborated our explanation of it's whereabouts to stating that some people believe that when you die you go to a place called heaven, and some people think that you come back as another animal or person, and some people think it's just like being asleep forever. we also told her that noone knows for sure because noone comes back from the dead, and dead is forever. i didnt really want to focus on my beliefs just yet. i dont have problem with her learning about different belief systems, but i want to do it in a very objective manner and i dont think she's ready yet.

we do say 'bless you' for a sneeze (or a fart ). i never really gave it much thought, it's habit.

[siobhang]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

Hi ladies. I wanted to ask if you would rather stay here in FYT or move to Spirituality. As long as you're discussing cultural issues rather than issues of faith (including critiques of other belief systems), you're welcome to stay here in FYT. But if you would rather move to Spirituality, that's OK too. Just discuss it amongst yourselves and let me know which would suit you better. Thanks!

can we have two threads? One in spirituality for questions on spiritual atheism/atheism and religion, etc. and here for more day-to-day discussions?

[Ms. Mom]

Originally Posted by siobhang

can we have two threads? One in spirituality for questions on spiritual atheism/atheism and religion, etc. and here for more day-to-day discussions?

Yes, because your looking for two different areas to focus on. Feel free to start a thread in Spirituality.

[siobhang]

Originally Posted by Jacque Savageau

Yes, because your looking for two different areas to focus on. Feel free to start a thread in Spirituality.

there was one - I'll go bump it.

Or maybe it was in religious studies...

[siobhang]

bumped the "Can We Talk About Atheism/Agnosticism?" thread in religious studies for those interested.

[pookel]

Subbing.

[Mommoo]

Subbing also.

I'll introduce myself in detail now.

I was raised Roman Catholic and remember when I was 13 I found a little card in a friend's room that said something about being christian. I said "hey, I thought you were catholic" she responded "I am, you're christian too!" I was like, no way man, I've never heard that before.

I remember another time when I was around 10 and I told my mother that I wasn't sure if I believed in god, and if I did, I didn't like him.

So I basically turned away from the church until I was 18 and an au-pair in Switzerland. I guess you could say I became a born again Christian. I met a group of a Christian au-pairs and I eventually started going to bible study with them. They were neat girls and I was so easily influenced! I just wanted friends and didn't really have a personal stance on anything in life.
I had a physical and emotional experience during a conversation about Jesus and I thought, wow, I felt the holy spirit! So I did the non-denominational-evangelical thing for a bit. Totally alienated myself from my punk-rock friends back home, and my family thought I had been brainwashed. I became a bible thumper. Trying to share my joyous knowledge with everyone. Wanting everyone I loved to see the truth.

Fast forward a few years and I fell in love with an agnostic. We both tried to make sense of our different beliefs. He was super into Carlos Castaneda stuff and I was all about Jesus. Eventually we read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. We were both all over it, but I was still trying to make it fit my Christian mold. Eventually it broke the mold and I was released from my state of ignorance. I mean, I was the kind of Christian who believed that Jesus died for my sins and that only through believing in him and giving myself to him could I be freed from my sins. That he did rise from the dead and all of the other stuff the bible says.

So, now I find myself in a relationship with my DP, who was raised Lutheran by a father who is a Lutheran Pastor. We essentially have the same beliefs, but DP is really into the whole community of church, and message of Jesus thing.

Nice to meet you all!! I look forward to reading the thread over in spirituality.

[avivaelona]

personally I'm just much more interested in the cultural aspects and how to live peaceably and with mutual respect among those of other religious belief, I think atheism can encompass a wide variety of spiritualities and for me those are mostly private anyway. I think two threads are a good idea but I'd be interested in this one mostly I think (well we'll see) .

To the previous poster who suggested just talking about other religions with respect, to my three year old, thanks for the attempt but I think what I'm getting at is much more simple..like literally how to explain what a church building is for, or what people even mean when they say "god" to a little person who asks questions that are hard to answer at his vocabularly level. My son is very verbal for his age so I can talk to him about things but he still only has a three year olds knowledge of the world. So it isn't that he is coming to me saying "Jimmy says he's christian, who is Jesus?" its that he says "mommy what's a "Church"" and I have no idea how to answer him because all of the words you would use to describe what a church is for are just as foreign to him as the word Church is.

As far as death, when our kitty died we told him that the part of her that made her be alive was gone, even though everything else was stil there she wouldn't be able to walk or eat or do anything anymore. So he started asking lots of questions about what part it was, and asked if she still had every part of her body. So we added that there was something in people or animals that makes them be alive, and that some people think that is just energy and other people think that there is something called a soul or spirit that is a seperate part of them and goes somewhere else when you die. That some people think it goes to a place and other people think it just dissolves into the ground or the air. He said that he has a seperate part of him that is a spirit and it lives right next to his brain in his head, and pointed to a very specific spot on his head, so for him he's got it figured out

[jaidymama]

Originally Posted by avivaelona

personally I'm just much more interested in the cultural aspects and how to live peaceably and with mutual respect among those of other religious belief, I think atheism can encompass a wide variety of spiritualities and for me those are mostly private anyway. I think two threads are a good idea but I'd be interested in this one mostly I think (well we'll see) .

To the previous poster who suggested just talking about other religions with respect, to my three year old, thanks for the attempt but I think what I'm getting at is much more simple..like literally how to explain what a church building is for, or what people even mean when they say "god" to a little person who asks questions that are hard to answer at his vocabularly level. My son is very verbal for his age so I can talk to him about things but he still only has a three year olds knowledge of the world. So it isn't that he is coming to me saying "Jimmy says he's christian, who is Jesus?" its that he says "mommy what's a "Church"" and I have no idea how to answer him because all of the words you would use to describe what a church is for are just as foreign to him as the word Church is.

As far as death, when our kitty died we told him that the part of her that made her be alive was gone, even though everything else was stil there she wouldn't be able to walk or eat or do anything anymore. So he started asking lots of questions about what part it was, and asked if she still had every part of her body. So we added that there was something in people or animals that makes them be alive, and that some people think that is just energy and other people think that there is something called a soul or spirit that is a seperate part of them and goes somewhere else when you die. That some people think it goes to a place and other people think it just dissolves into the ground or the air. He said that he has a seperate part of him that is a spirit and it lives right next to his brain in his head, and pointed to a very specific spot on his head, so for him he's got it figured out

So I always try to keep it boiled down to something that makes sense to my child. Like the bare bones (sans rhetoric)

here's what one website said the definition of these are...
Church: a building for public Christian worship.
God: the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

My take on these:
Church: a building where people meet to talk, sing and pray.
God: someone who some people [Christians] believe made the world--all the animals, plants and people. It's not someone we can see, hear or touch.
Jesus: a man who lived a long time ago. There are books written about him and what he did in his life. He is important to people who are Christians; they believe he was their leader.

Meal prayers with family. I don't say anything to my ds except ask him to be quiet. He hasn't asked what it is. If it comes up I will tell him it's their way of saying thanks for the food.

[jaidymama]

I think there is merit in having a separate thread to discuss actual theology of atheism/agnosticism. Whereas I think a thread for parenting a child with these beliefs would and has been useful. I know in our life we have gone a nonconventional route as far as both of our families are concerned... so I find I'm in uncharted waters. In some way I feel relieved that there's a group of moms online whom I can ask questions to about these unique parenting challenges that might and do arise.

Not to mention these are things that I wouldn't receive support about from family and friends. And it's not like there's an atheist church where everyone meets up IRL and we would automatically know those people have similar beliefs.

For me, this thread is a nice resource. And I will visit the spirituality one if I feel the need to delve into a different kind of discussion.

[siobhang]

My definitions I have used with my kids - I am an anthropologist so that definitely influences my definitions.

Church: a community of like minded people who gather to talk, celebrate, commiserate, etc. The building they gather in is also called a church - it can also be called a temple or other word. We go to church - our UU church.

God: the sense that there is something bigger and more important than us as individuals. We sometimes ask God for help, when we need something beyond what we feel we have internally. Sometimes God is portrayed as a person who can talk to you or who is watching your actions, but those are just stories. God is an idea, not a thing or person.

Jesus: a teacher who lived a long time ago who said many wise and important things to help us live our lives better. There are many stories told about Jesus, some of which are true and some of which aren't, which talk about his life and his good deeds.

I want to get across the idea that God is a metaphor for many important ideas and feelings we humans all share. God does not need to be literally true, and Jesus does not need to be the Christ, in order for some of the concepts and emotions in religion to be valid and helpful to us as ethical beings.

In addition, dh and I need standard definitions that resonate with our kids when they hear "God bless America" or "Thank you, Jesus!", which they do hear a lot ('tis an election season, after all...).

I look forward to hearing what others say.

[jaidymama]

Originally Posted by siobhang

My definitions I have used with my kids - I am an anthropologist so that definitely influences my definitions.

Church: a community of like minded people who gather to talk, celebrate, commiserate, etc. The building they gather in is also called a church - it can also be called a temple or other word. We go to church - our UU church.

God: the sense that there is something bigger and more important than us as individuals. We sometimes ask God for help, when we need something beyond what we feel we have internally. Sometimes God is portrayed as a person who can talk to you or who is watching your actions, but those are just stories. God is an idea, not a thing or person.

Jesus: a teacher who lived a long time ago who said many wise and important things to help us live our lives better. There are many stories told about Jesus, some of which are true and some of which aren't, which talk about his life and his good deeds.

I want to get across the idea that God is a metaphor for many important ideas and feelings we humans all share. God does not need to be literally true, and Jesus does not need to be the Christ, in order for some of the concepts and emotions in religion to be valid and helpful to us as ethical beings.

In addition, dh and I need standard definitions that resonate with our kids when they hear "God bless America" or "Thank you, Jesus!", which they do hear a lot ('tis an election season, after all...).

I look forward to hearing what others say.

I really like these, thanks!

[spruce]

.

[KatWrangler]

I am here!

[starlein26]

I'm still here!

[expat-mama]

Can't wait for this movie...

Anyone seen the trailers for "Religulus"???

If not search for it on Youtube. It's documentary on religion from an atheists point of view...or something along those lines, but as it's hosted by Bill Mahr and directed by the guy who directed "Borat", it'll be pretty funny.
I think it's coming out this October and IMHO it looks like it will be highly entertaining!

[KMK_Mama]

Originally Posted by expat-mama

Anyone seen the trailers for "Religulus"???

If not search for it on Youtube. It's documentary on religion from an atheists point of view...or something along those lines, but as it's hosted by Bill Mahr and directed by the guy who directed "Borat", it'll be pretty funny.
I think it's coming out this October and IMHO it looks like it will be highly entertaining!

I can't wait to see this! It comes out on Friday.

[starlein26]

Originally Posted by expat-mama

Anyone seen the trailers for "Religulus"???

If not search for it on Youtube. It's documentary on religion from an atheists point of view...or something along those lines, but as it's hosted by Bill Mahr and directed by the guy who directed "Borat", it'll be pretty funny.
I think it's coming out this October and IMHO it looks like it will be highly entertaining!

Wow...sounds HIGHLY promising in the hilarious department.

[voicegrrl]

I saw it!

Saturday. Aww man...best movie of the year, maybe my life. It was so good. Can't wait to buy it when it's out on DVD. Can't wait till everyone here sees it!

[jaidymama]

Charlie Rose interviewed them last night on his show. Very interesting all that he has to say about the movie, and his experience. As much as it is supposed to be funny and entertaining, I think he really was trying to say something here. He also made commentary about the current presidential elections, and that for the last ??? many presidents it was almost a "requirement" to talk about that aspect of your life to get that voting base behind you.

He also commented about the European Culture is different from our own. that 50% of Italy claims to be atheist.