Support for moms who can't breastfeed - Page 2

[Bladestar5]

I just wanted to remind the moms with one baby, that had low supplies, that it is possible with the 2nd baby to have enough milk. I asked the doctor why was I able to exclusively nurse this baby, but not the first one, and she said it is quite common, and that sometimes the milk glands aren't quite fully formed the first time around.

[gurumama]

abalee's story got me thinking. i wonder if low milk supply is on the rise in general. could environmental issues be hurting breastfeeding? or lifestyle/stress? food/diet? when you consider how breast cancer rates have skyrocketed, could there be something going on we don't understand? i don't mean to be alarmist--just wondering... i personally know two women like abalee--first kid, pumped and nursed like crazy, but never enough to feed the babe. they relaxed, ate enough, etc.

[Laurel]

I've been reading the book Healthy Parents, Better Babies by Francesca Naish and Janette Roberts. It's about preconception healthcare. They put infertility, pregnancy loss, difficult pregnancies, difficult births, and breastfeeding problems all along the same continuum--and feel that all these things are definitely impacted by by nutritional, lifestyle, and environmental issues. They specifically mention low supply. I don't think they're trying to put alot of unneeded guilt on women--they're just saying that our "modern" lifestyles and the things our bodies come into contact with do have a negative impact on us. They have another book, I think it's called Healthy Mothers, Better Breastfeeding. I wanted to get it, but it's $50 and 450 pages long! I would love to see what they had to say specifically about breastfeeding.

[cielle]

This thread is so exactly our experience. I couldn't get DS to latch so I pumped for 14 months. It was such a huge and agonizing loss. I still obsess over each thing I did wrong along the way - circing, having family visit before bf was established, letting the nurses convince me he was only sucking his tongue, letting them tell me he needed formula because of jaundice, letting myself get so obsessed with the pumping schedule that I couldn't focus on trying to bf, not getting a REAL LC instead of using the hospital's, on an on.

I guess at some point I'll be able to forgive myself, but after almost 2 years, I still haven't.

We are TTCing now and I worry that half the reason I am doing it is so I can have the BF experience.

Just throwing in my 2 cents...

[Abalee]

Thanks for the support about the possibility of having a betters supply next time around...I've heard that before and hold out hope that will happen and maybe I'll be able to do a better job of combining bf and ff.

The environmental possibility is a really interesting one...I know that the doc told me that I just don't have enough milk glands, but certainly their development (or lack thereof) could be linked to environmental causes. Ironically enough, I was a fully bf baby - to 21 months, so that's not the problem for me. I know my mom has wondered if it's something she did that caused this problem, but who knows - a part of me is just underdeveloped and I don't know how to figure out what caused it. And it's not as if millions of dollars in research money will ever go into figuring it out! Sigh. That would be the day!

I would like to ask again - how are those of you who ff approaching introducing solids? Are you doing it differently than if you were exclusively bf? I'm at a loss as to how to do it and when to wean ds off of formula. (he's only 8 mos, but nonetheless).

thanks again.

mom to James 7/14/02

[cielle]

The switch to solids is a big issue for us. DS will be two next month and is still taking several 4 oz. cow milk bottles a day. For me, I was very liberal with the bottles while I was pumping because it was breast milk and I wanted him to have as much as he wanted, just as if he were BFing. We introduced cereal around 6 months but he didn't really take to it. He didn't really get into solids until 1 yr.

Now I wish that I had phased out the bottles and increased the emphasis on solids at an earlier age although given his disinterest in solids, I'm not sure I could have. I would definitely though make the switch from bottle to sippy cup as close to the 1 year mark as possible. At almost 2 he has a very strong will and is very verbal about his desire for a bottle. At the same time I believe bottle fed babies need to have their sucking needs met just as BF babies do. Therefore, I am also now wishing that we had used a paci.

It is a battle because I know that if he were BF the patterns would have been very different. I guess one other thing I would try (that I failed to do) would be to make bottle feeding as boring as BFing in terms of not allowing the child to run around with a bottle. In the high chair or in your arms only. One reason kids wean from bfing is they want to spend more time in the world and less in your lap. If the child is allowed to run with the bottle (as mine has) that motivation is removed.

As you can see there are many things I wish I had done differently. I think this is akin to the parent that buys her kid tons of gifts because the parents work too much or are getting divorced. It is about guilt. I feel guilty about not BFing so I let him have his bottle anyway he wanted.

No doubt it is time to get over this guilt and start doing things right for both me and him. If anybody else has a toddler they need to bottle wean and wants a buddy to talk with about it, PM me!

[PuppyFluffer]

I have read this thread with so much feeling for those who cannot breastfeed. I have a 10 month old dd and we have had success with nursing and all is well....but I have often wondered how it is for women who cannot bf or who have such incredible trouble that they are unable to continue! I can completely understand the feelings of loss and the grieving that happens.

I have made a few lame attempts to pump so I can get a little stash in the freezer should it be needed for anything and I have given up fairly quickly as I have trouble pumping. I just decided that dd needs more milk on Saturdays when I work and she is with DH. He brings her to work so I can nurse her but I don't think it is often enough and she needs more. So...this week, I decided to pump in ernest and wow, is it hard getting much! I have a whole new appreciation for women who pump for their babies and are committed to it. And to women who try to induce lactation! Wow, I am so respectful of you and so in awe of your efforts!!!!!

I wish we had a local milk bank, I would consider donating. I can successfully nurse my baby. I would do the work to help someone who can not! I think I will look into that some more and see if there is anywhere even close that I can contribute to. I am assuming that the more I pump, the more I will get. So far, I only get about an ounce at a time.

I just wanted to offes support and let you women know that breastfeeding does not make a woman or a mother! Loving attentiveness does that! Though you cannot deny the loss of the bfing relationship, you cannot deny the loving relationship you have with your child!! Keep loving those babes!

[The Lucky One]

Thank you, Puppyfluffer. I wish more women here could be so empathetic.

lisa

ps. Hey I live in WV too On the opposite end as you though, I'm right on the border with Ohio.

[PuppyFluffer]

I have a question. Will a baby do any comfort nursing at the breast even if they don't get any milk or very little milk? For moms who have supply issues and have to supplement, do you still nurse for fixing booboos and such. I'm just wondering if the baby will even latch if they don't get much?

The Lucky One, nice to know we share the same state. I know so little about the rest of WV. I'm from Va originally, have moved around a lot and just fell in love with Shepherdstown. Do you ever get this way? Look me up if you do!

[Laurel]

My ds would almost never consent to comfort-nurse without the lact-aid. I was making only drops or mini-droplets. I can only think of a handful of occasions where he was very sleepy or extremely relaxed when he would nurse with no milk. If I got him started nursing with the lact-aid and he nursed until he was full, he would continue suckling after I removed the tube, but he wouldn't just accept the breast with no milk.

This was one of the main barriers for me in inducing lactation. I couldn't get him to the breast enough because he wouldn't comfort nurse. And trying to hook-up a nursing supplementer every single time he might possibly need comfort soon proved to be so impractical--by the time I'd get things ready to go, either the need for comfort-nursing had passed, or he'd be screaming.

[PuppyFluffer]

Thanks for the answers, I wondered because some babies will take a pacifier and they certainly don't get milk from it! It seems the need to suck gets met with a pacifier, why wouldn't they take a human nipple for pacification? My dd would never take a paci, but the only time I ever tried was in the car seat when I couldn't hold and nurse her.

Again, Yeah to you mommas who try to nurse in the face of problems and tons of support to those who cannot nurse.

[Laurel]

A paci has a different association for a baby than a breast does. My ds, too, would always take a binky with no problem, but would not nurse a dry breast. This was very perplexing to me, but I just feel that even when he wasn't really hungry, he'd learned to associate the breast with milk. With no milk, things just weren't "right" as far as he was concerned. A paci is never associated with milk, so a baby would never come to expect the two to go hand in hand.

[Abalee]

Hmm...I guess I'm actually a lucky one here. My ds will still nurse at night, even though I have very little milk (I know I have some, because he dribbles sometimes...). He used to nurse 2-3 times during the day as well, but he's pretty unwilling to do that now, unless he's REALLY tired and is ready to nap. I used to nurse him to sleep (for naps) all the time, but now that he's so interested in the world (and can move), he's harder to get to sleep. But we co-sleep, so he often nurses to sleep at night and I nurse him back to sleep multiple times each night, even though I'm basically just acting as a pacifier, since he's not getting much milk. I'm glad we can do this -- it's not the nursing relationship I wanted, but it is something to supplement our bottle-feeding relationship (which I also consider nursing and nurturing). Not sure why it works for us and not for others -- maybe because he's come to associate it with comfort, not food?

[Nemmer]

I'm in the same boat as Lisa (Laurel) who I know from that parenting after infertility mailing list. I adopted my DS, who is 11 months, and tried inducing lactation. I was only able to do it for a couple months (about 8-9 weeks) however. I was producing milk, but only about 1-2 oz per day, and the whole process and I'm sure my stress about it interfered with my relationship with DS. So, he has primarily gotten formula his whole life.
We started solids at about 5 1/2 months, when he seemed interested. I introduced solids very slowly, much to the annoyance of extended family! We started with rice cereal, for a couple of weeks, about once a day... I wasn't very regular, since it was mostly a social/play thing, and a way for him to learn about spoon feeding. I then introduced one fruit or veggie at a time, still on a pretty varied schedule, most of his diet still made up of milk. I guess I figure that even if formula is less perfect, it is still more healthy/complete than any other option I have. It has the variety of nutrients that DS can't get from one veggie per day. At about 8 mos I started giving him mixed varieties, or homemade mixtures. It has really only been the last month or two that I've made an effort to make sure he gets 3 meals per day, and a wider variety of foods. As we approach the year mark, though, I'm facing a couple of questions. First: He does have a problem with constipation, which we've tried to help with in a variety of ways -- herbs, more water, and fruit/veggie only diet (no breads, rice, etc). The fruit/veggie diet seems to help the most, and he'll drink a little water from a sippie cup, but not much. He's still drinking 24 oz or so of formula each day, plus the 3 meals. Any ideas of something else (besides milk of magnesia) that can help his poor little bowels? Question #2: For those of you who do give your children cow's milk as toddlers, do you give both formula and cow's milk at a year? I was thinking slowly introduce it, and increase the cow's milk as I decrease the formula... but I'd like some input on that.
Anyway, I don't know if I really helped with your questions at all Lisa (and others) but I hope this helps.

[Nemmer]

Originally posted by Laurel
My ds would almost never consent to comfort-nurse without the lact-aid .... And trying to hook-up a nursing supplementer every single time he might possibly need comfort soon proved to be so impractical--by the time I'd get things ready to go, either the need for comfort-nursing had passed, or he'd be screaming.

This was exactly my experience too. DS would never comfort nurse, but had a big need to suck and would take the binky quite well. He eventually got so frustrated with my attempts to help induction by offering the breast without the LA at first, that he essentially boycotted nursing at all! I came to the conclusion that both my main objectives of nursing were not being met. I wasn't really providing enough bm to be of much nutritive value, which was objective #1. Number 2 was the attachment and bonding experience, which seemed better with the bottle too, due to the stress. DS was so much more relaxed, and he would play with my fingers and look into my eyes while I held the bottle, whereas he mostly just fought and protested while nursing. Not every time, but enough. I know God gave me an incredible sense of peace about stopping, because I would not have stopped otherwise. I wanted to be sure I gave it my full effort, and didn't "wimp out." (not saying that any of you did, I just knew that *I* might be likely to) But, I do feel that we've been able to create a bond with bottle-feeding, even though I do long for the convenience of nursing. He still prefers me to feed him, even though daddy sometimes does. And he looks at me while he eats, playing with my face sometimes, and smiling milk-drenched smiles and laughs as I play with him. It is still a cherished time for us.

[Nemmer]

Originally posted by cielle
I guess one other thing I would try (that I failed to do) would be to make bottle feeding as boring as BFing in terms of not allowing the child to run around with a bottle. In the high chair or in your arms only. One reason kids wean from bfing is they want to spend more time in the world and less in your lap. If the child is allowed to run with the bottle (as mine has) that motivation is removed.

Although DS is only 11 months, this is something I've kept in mind and tried to do, as well. I hold the bottle close to my chest, and even discourage turning and looking around. I figure, if he were bf'ing and turned his head, he'd lose the latch, so he can lose the bottle too. I try to treat bottle feeding as much like bf as I can. I let him snack just as I would with a breast. It's a little harder with formula, since I have to make sure it is somewhat fresh, but I don't freak out anymore if the bottle was made 2 hours ago and he wants to snack. When it gets 3 hours, I make a new one. I think I got that basic guideline from Dr. Sears' Baby Book.

[cielle]

Nemmer-

F&V diet is probably good. Make sure he isn't overdoing it on bananas since they can cause constipation.

Regarding milk. People do it both ways. You can either slowly introduce with say 2 oz. prepared formula plus 2 oz. milk in the same bottle or you can do what we did. Basically, DS refused the milk at first so we just stopped trying. When he began eating cheerios with milk later on he was willing to accept milk in the bottle so we made the change over then. But we used formula far longer than other people usually do. The nice thing about the milk switch over is you can get affordable organic milk but not formula.

Your DS is still young so don't over do it with this, but you can adjust the water in the formula. Ie. use two scoops of formula but 5 oz. of water. He likely won't notice the difference but will get some extra water. Obviously don't get in the habit of watering down formula to where nutrition is comprised.

If it's get bad there's always the glycerin suppositories which are no darn fun

HTH.

[annakiss]

It looks like I'm joining this thread awful late, but I have been mourning my loss of the breastfeeding experience ever since DS was 2 days old.

DS was born 15 days late at home with a cleft lip & palate that was not diagnosed prior to birth. I tried to nurse right away, but he just screamed. He seemed to get a little bit of milk, but was pretty upset. He didn't really seem like he wanted to nurse either. There was no rooting that I noticed.

When he was a day old, the pediatrician came to the house to check out the cleft. My mom (midwife) didn't really know anything about clefts, as most people who haven't dealt directly with them don't, so the ped came to take a look. She said that from the looks of it, she didn't see how DS could adequately breastfeed. I was having tremendous trouble with it as it was.

I got a pump to get him some food using special cleft nursers, and continued to try nursing every now and then. Every time I tried to nurse, DS screamed his head off. After that 2nd day, I pretty much gave up. My mom kept trying to encourage me to try. She thought that I could be successful, but I felt that she was adding more pressure than I needed. We moved across country when DS was ten days old, and between the move, dealing with just having a baby, and the cleft, I don't know if I really had it in me to continue trying. Every time I attempted to put DS to the breast, he screamed. He screamed when he was 3 months old, he screamed when he was 3 days old, and he's still screaming at 8 months. I still sometimes wonder though if I didn't try hard enough.

I've been pumping for the last 8 months with no problem. DS is a little baby just because of our genes, not to mention the surgeries, so his growth spurts had been relatively easy to deal with. Especially since initially I had so much milk. I decreased my supply when he was 4 months old b/c I ran out of space in my freezer, but I'm paying for it now that he's older. He's not on solids hardly at all & his growth spurts have depleated my freezer supply completely. Four times recently I've given him formula at night to go to sleep. In his first 3 months, I added formula to the breast milk to increase the calories so he could gain adequate weight for his first surgery (which we accomplished, but barely), so I knew that he didn't have a problem with it, but I've been feeling guilty about giving him the formula anyway. I've increased my supply again, but it's not enough to get much ahead of him, and when I do he just goes through another growth spurt and eats up everything I'd saved anyway.

At any rate, I'm grateful to see this thread because I really really really mourn that I couldn't nurse. Being able to pump is good because I can feed him my breastmilk, but it's not the same. I see women in my playgroup breastfeed under blankets and wonder what the hell they're hiding. If I'd been able to nurse, I'd have been brazen about it. As it is, I too feel as Abalee said:

It was so hard for me to accept that I'd be a bottle-wielding mama - and I am still sensitive to it when we are out and I have to pull out a bottle. I'd give a lot to be able to pull out my breast instead,

I almost feel like I'd like to have another child in order to be able to nurse, but I wonder what sort of feelings another pregnancy would bring up (not that I'm anywhere ready for another). I feel like my body failed me because of the cleft and though I know my chances of having another cleft-affected child are slim, I think that I would feel pressure to do it "right" the second time around.

So that's my story. Sorry for babbling on & on.

[Laurel]

Anna, glad to have you here! Thanks for sharing your story. I can relate alot to your quandary over a second child. My ds is adopted, and now is the time that we're trying to figure out whether to adopt again or go back to ttc. A huge part of me leans toward ttc for many reasons, but one of the biggest is so I can (hopefully) nurse! Even if we adopt again, I'll try adoptive nursing again, but the thought of it really fills me with dread--after seeing my body's poor response this time around, I'm not as hopeful about inducing lactation once again. I have mostly moved on and accepted that we are a bottlefeeding family at this time, but I still have many moments of wishing I could nurse him--especially when he's sick, or hurt, or during the night. And I HATE the inconvenience of bottles! I hate washing them, lugging them around, having to mix up formula, etc. It's hard for me to understand why anyone would CHOOSE bottles.

My question for everyone is how have you introduced other liquids and particularly cups or sippy cups? I have wanted to keep bottles only for formula and have other liquids in other cups. We have bottles only while being held, and I've wanted to protect that. Ds refuses to drink from a sippy cup. Actually, he refuses to drink anything except formula. No water, no juice. I'm not sorry about juice, because I haven't been big on it anyway. But I'm concerned that he's not getting enough fluid, especially now that he eats about 2-3 solid food meals a day. I even gave up and tried to give him water in a bottle, but he wouldn't have anything to do with that either. A friend suggested having him drink from a regular cup, and he took a sip or two, but that was it. Now, no matter what the liquid is or what container I present it in, he pushes it away forcefully.

Any ideas? He's 9 1/2 months old. Am I worried about nothing? If he were bf'ing, I don't think it would be a problem at all.

[onediaperinmama]

I'm just tiptoeing in to thank ya'll for this thread.

I'm shocked to find myself looking down my nose at the ladies in my church who produce bottles from their diaper bags. I don't know where this self righteous mama stuff is coming from.

My husband's sister died shortly after an emergency cesearean birth at 7 months gestation. They delivered our niece so that my sister in law could begin chemotherapy on a brain tumor. She had a stroke after an unsuccessful operation to relieve pressure & died two months later. Samantha, a two month premature baby thrived and of course was fed formula by her grandma. What would I have thought or said if I had passed my MIL & her motherless granddaughter in the mall not knowing who they were or what their situation was?

It makes me cry, I don't understand where this judgement comes from. It's something I dislike greatly about myself. After an extremely difficult start & extruciating first three months, I'm proud of breastfeeding & I'm pleased to encourage it by breastfeeding in public & showing those convinced by formula companies or culture that breast feeding is a natural, beautiful option. But I'm ashamed that my self righteous feelings cross over to everyone who brings out a bottle at the bus stop.

Anyway, so try to refrain from hurling tomatoes at me. I just wanted to thank you for your perspectives. It's a good reminder for me to work harder to keep that nasty little judgemental feeling from creeping up my back.

Jess

P.S. A friend of mine runs this: http://www.milkconnection.com/ - it's not a milk bank, it's a private forum where breastmilk is donated to mama's in need. I'm not sure if any of your wee ones are wee enough to check it out, but thought I'd pass the link along as an fyi.