What do I look for??

[peaceful_mama]

OK so to make a really long story short, I'm pretty sure I'm what most now would've called a 'gifted' kid. I remember having taught myself to read by age 3, I could write at 3 too. I remember Christmas, the year I would've been 3 and about 3 months, reading out of the hymnal at my grandma's church, and no, I hadn't seen it before, she lived about 3 hours from us.

When I got to school, my math skills were, well, lacking. I got the lecture from every teacher on how I was 'so smart and i should just apply myself' The thing is, I DID and I just didn't 'get it.' My mom's solution to this was to start doing the homework FOR me as she didn't know really how to teach it to me, of course this was a horrible idea as i couldn't do the tests. My 7th grade math teacher told my mom at parent teacher conferences she didn't want me back in her class, my mom came home and told me that, in a way that of course implied it had something to do with things I intentionally did, which it didn't.
Guess what? I still hate math to this day, and I had to take college algebra 3 times and finally got a B in it by taking it at a community college with small classes that started off teaching like you'd never had a math class before. That's what it took, and it was still horribly frustrating.

I remember the day too when I consciously decided to stop volunteering answers in class and play dumb once in awhile because I thought maybe I'd 'fit in' a little more if everyone didn't see me as 'the smart kid'...it didn't work.

anyway the story is not all that short, this is the part I'll keep short. I REALLY don't want my son to go through all this if he turns out to be somewhat like me. (maybe it'll be the high reading skills, maybe it'll be math but low/average language ability but i don't think so) Maybe he'll be just overall gifted, and I really don't want him to be bored in a typical school or go through the crap with the other kids either.

This turned out to be an entirely different post than what I was thinking originally. I posted on the latest gifted thread asking if anyone thinks what i'm seeing is a sign he's gifted...but I really don't want to stick that label and pressure on him either. I just want to know if that's what I'm seeing and how I should handle his education differently so he doesn't experience what I did. I expect a MAJOR DH battle on homeschool too....*sigh* (I WANTED to be homeschooled, I didnt' have parents who could do it)
you can see what he's doing if you go to my post on the gifted thread. this post is long enough!

[NoHiddenFees]

There's a lot of stuff there. My brain isn't firing on all cylinders this morning, so I'm just gonna pick up on the homeschooling part.

I recommend homeschooling to anyone who asks, especially for gifted kids. Many end up being homeschooled simply because their school disticts will not provide adequate accomodation (even acceleration). It allows children to work at their own level, no matter the subject without fear of inconsistant grades (or any grades for that matter ). It also provides the freedom to can a curriculum or approach if it doesn't meet the child's needs.

If your DS does end up in school and experiences some of the problems you fear with math, you can still afterschool. There are some great affordable math curricula out there and you will be able to find one suited to your son's learning style. That doesn't help with potential boredom and underachievement issues. Do you know how your school district's policy wrt gifted kids?

Why is your DH against homeschooling? Does he think your DS is potentially gifted too? Will he be willing to do some research?

Some good resources:

A Nation Deceived
-- free for download, reasonable price for hard copy

Genius Denied

Creative Homeschooling for Gifted Children

Dumbing us Down by John Taylor Gatto

[Charles Baudelaire]

Originally Posted by zakers_mama

OK so to make a really long story short, I'm pretty sure I'm what most now would've called a 'gifted' kid. I remember having taught myself to read by age 3, I could write at 3 too. I remember Christmas, the year I would've been 3 and about 3 months, reading out of the hymnal at my grandma's church, and no, I hadn't seen it before, she lived about 3 hours from us.

When I got to school, my math skills were, well, lacking. I got the lecture from every teacher on how I was 'so smart and i should just apply myself' The thing is, I DID and I just didn't 'get it.' My mom's solution to this was to start doing the homework FOR me as she didn't know really how to teach it to me, of course this was a horrible idea as i couldn't do the tests. My 7th grade math teacher told my mom at parent teacher conferences she didn't want me back in her class, my mom came home and told me that, in a way that of course implied it had something to do with things I intentionally did, which it didn't.
Guess what? I still hate math to this day, and I had to take college algebra 3 times and finally got a B in it by taking it at a community college with small classes that started off teaching like you'd never had a math class before. That's what it took, and it was still horribly frustrating.

I remember the day too when I consciously decided to stop volunteering answers in class and play dumb once in awhile because I thought maybe I'd 'fit in' a little more if everyone didn't see me as 'the smart kid'...it didn't work.

anyway the story is not all that short, this is the part I'll keep short. I REALLY don't want my son to go through all this if he turns out to be somewhat like me. (maybe it'll be the high reading skills, maybe it'll be math but low/average language ability but i don't think so) Maybe he'll be just overall gifted, and I really don't want him to be bored in a typical school or go through the crap with the other kids either.

This turned out to be an entirely different post than what I was thinking originally. I posted on the latest gifted thread asking if anyone thinks what i'm seeing is a sign he's gifted...but I really don't want to stick that label and pressure on him either. I just want to know if that's what I'm seeing and how I should handle his education differently so he doesn't experience what I did. I expect a MAJOR DH battle on homeschool too....*sigh* (I WANTED to be homeschooled, I didnt' have parents who could do it)
you can see what he's doing if you go to my post on the gifted thread. this post is long enough!

Why don't you homeschool him? My math skills and yours are very similar, from what it sounds like.

[peaceful_mama]

I can just see DH's reaction...he'd be all about DS needing the social interaction and wondering who qualified us to teach him.
The ADVANTAGES I can see that he would not argue with most likely would come when DS is older--being away from negative peer influences--drugs, alcohol, the pressure to date/have a girlfriend/have sex.
The only thing i can see that DH would see as a total negative about public school when he's little is if he's forced to participate in holiday celebrations we don't believe in and/or made to feel like a 'freak' because he doesn't.

This is MY thought on the subject--one, i'm a heck of a lot more qualified to teach kindergarten math skills than say, calculus if he wanted it in high school. Two, I don't know how anybody teaches advanced chem classes for example at home... Three, if he's got a decent foundation from home, I shouldn't have to worry that he'll suddenly change and go against all that because I sent him to a high school science or math class with his peers. and all the lame holiday activities seem to go away for the most part by the time they're older.

MY big objections are that nowhere here do they allow kids to say do 5th grade reading work and 1st grade math when you are in the 2nd grade. (that was me, and i might have been even more advanced in reading)

They won't let you in the 'gifted' program unless you're also mathematically gifted or wouldn't when I went to school anyway.

All the holiday crap-ola. which has gotten a LITTLE better depending on where you go to school.

And one big thing I'd like to do with homeschooling is have him learn both Arabic and English, I'd rather not have him NOT learn Arabic because he's too busy with all his homework and things, I'd like it to be part of his regular schoolwork, that would be DH's territory. I wish i could get him to speak to him even now, but he keeps telling me 'oh yeah, I will' and then doesn't because he thinks DS will be confused. I keep telling him that children who are acquiring language in the typical way like DS DON'T get confused, I know plenty who know who to speak what to and don't mix languages. The child is not even 2 and he says things like "I want some pop." or "I wanna go home" "take a bath" and he has been talking like this for a couple months at least. HE IS SO FAR FROM SOMEONE YOU HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT WITH!! arrgghhh....

Can't be my job though. I tried once and i accidentally was teaching DS 'kiss my butt' whoops instead of 'give me kisses'


anyway my other big question is, how do I know if what i see is signs DS is gifted? What if I'm just projecting all this on him? (but today we read a brand new book from the library, he's heard it all of 2-3 times and he 'read' that back to me too some....)

[peaceful_mama]

OK I REALLY have preggo brain--I got on another thought and forgot my other MAJOR objection to the public school system, and that is all the TESTING they do. These poor children start taking these horribly long drawn out standardized tests in the FIRST grade. They're told that if they don't do well, they may not be able to go on the field trip, etc etc--what does that do for the kid who's 'dumb in math' to begin with? I have heard teachers specifically tell kids they are teaching X because of the test. I don't agree with learning something just to be able to spit it out on a paper later, the ONLY 'teaching to a test' I have ever seen and thought was 'good' was teaching the kids the vocabulary they use in the instructions.

These kids take district tests starting in first grade like I said, every year, and there's a session at the beginning and at the end of the year. Then, in third grade, the state tests start, every year, toward the end.

You know how many big standardized tests like that I took in school? 5. TOTAL. First, fourth, eighth, and 11th grade, plus there was one for the military ASVAB or something they had us all take in about 10th grade.

These kids now have taken 5 big stress-out tests by the beginning of 3rd grade!!

At the very least, if I don't win the homeschool battle, he's going to the parent-involved charter school and I'm pulling him out on every one of those stupid test days. They can well, I won't say what they can do but you get the idea. I'm simply NOT putting my child through that stress several times a year because of a poorly written, STUPID law.

[Charles Baudelaire]

Originally Posted by zakers_mama

I can just see DH's reaction...he'd be all about DS needing the social interaction and wondering who qualified us to teach him.

Frankly, for a gifted child, the dubious "socialization" of school is something more honored in the breach than in the observance, if you know what I mean...and if he's Arabic, I would personally fear discrimination from ignorant students *and* teachers. Sounds like a nasty one-two punch that might be more than just a metaphor.

The ADVANTAGES I can see that he would not argue with most likely would come when DS is older--being away from negative peer influences--drugs, alcohol, the pressure to date/have a girlfriend/have sex.
The only thing i can see that DH would see as a total negative about public school when he's little is if he's forced to participate in holiday celebrations we don't believe in and/or made to feel like a 'freak' because he doesn't.

I would think that that would be a subject of crucial importance.

This is MY thought on the subject--one, i'm a heck of a lot more qualified to teach kindergarten math skills than say, calculus if he wanted it in high school.

And high school is a long way away and there are many possibilities, not the least of which is hiring a tutor.

Two, I don't know how anybody teaches advanced chem classes for example at home... Three, if he's got a decent foundation from home, I shouldn't have to worry that he'll suddenly change and go against all that because I sent him to a high school science or math class with his peers. and all the lame holiday activities seem to go away for the most part by the time they're older.

I agree - and in high school, there's much less pressure to conform than there is in ES.

MY big objections are that nowhere here do they allow kids to say do 5th grade reading work and 1st grade math when you are in the 2nd grade. (that was me, and i might have been even more advanced in reading)

They won't let you in the 'gifted' program unless you're also mathematically gifted or wouldn't when I went to school anyway.

All the holiday crap-ola. which has gotten a LITTLE better depending on where you go to school.

And one big thing I'd like to do with homeschooling is have him learn both Arabic and English, I'd rather not have him NOT learn Arabic because he's too busy with all his homework and things, I'd like it to be part of his regular schoolwork, that would be DH's territory. I wish i could get him to speak to him even now, but he keeps telling me 'oh yeah, I will' and then doesn't because he thinks DS will be confused. I keep telling him that children who are acquiring language in the typical way like DS DON'T get confused, I know plenty who know who to speak what to and don't mix languages. The child is not even 2 and he says things like "I want some pop." or "I wanna go home" "take a bath" and he has been talking like this for a couple months at least. HE IS SO FAR FROM SOMEONE YOU HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT WITH!! arrgghhh....

Can't be my job though. I tried once and i accidentally was teaching DS 'kiss my butt' whoops instead of 'give me kisses'


anyway my other big question is, how do I know if what i see is signs DS is gifted? What if I'm just projecting all this on him? (but today we read a brand new book from the library, he's heard it all of 2-3 times and he 'read' that back to me too some....)

Go to hoagiesgifted.org. That's the best site on the web for gifted ANYTHING.

[NoHiddenFees]

Originally Posted by zakers_mama

This is MY thought on the subject--one, i'm a heck of a lot more qualified to teach kindergarten math skills than say, calculus if he wanted it in high school. Two, I don't know how anybody teaches advanced chem classes for example at home... Three, if he's got a decent foundation from home, I shouldn't have to worry that he'll suddenly change and go against all that because I sent him to a high school science or math class with his peers.

It might help if you think about yourself as a facilitator rather than a teacher. If your son needs more scaffolding than you can provide, there are a number of options. For example: tutors; correspondence courses; community college courses; and, homeschool co-ops. If you're intimidated by math, try a scripted or semi-scripted program like RightStart.

MY big objections are that nowhere here do they allow kids to say do 5th grade reading work and 1st grade math when you are in the 2nd grade. (that was me, and i might have been even more advanced in reading)

That's the boat we're in now. DD1 doesn't even qualify for K until a year from this September and the gifted magnet doesn't accept students until they're Gr. 1 age. Period. We were going to homeschool anyway, but knowing the alternatives makes me feel even better about it.

anyway my other big question is, how do I know if what i see is signs DS is gifted? What if I'm just projecting all this on him? (but today we read a brand new book from the library, he's heard it all of 2-3 times and he 'read' that back to me too some....)

If he's gifted, it sounds like your school district is less than accomodating. If he's not, he'd still be getting a better education at home in that it would be tailored to his individual needs. Testing when he's older is one way to find out for sure. We're not planning to test unless there's some benefit for DD1 (like entrance to Davidson), but if she exhibited drastically asynchronous development (not apparent at this time), test might be of use to help pay more attention to weaker areas.

[peaceful_mama]

They have 'gifted' programs here--a pull-out and an all day program in one of the schools. I have no idea what the requirements are to get in or how they determine who goes to what program. I would *guess* that a child who qualifies to be in 'challenge center' would be provided transportation there too? kids with disabilities who need the all-day contained class program are transported to the 2 elementaries that provide that program...

in this state, they're just now thinking to change the law so that it requires kindergarten...if they don't change this by the time DS is old enough for school, I'm most likely NOT sending him. Why? well one of 2 things will happen in the meantime, he's either going to be like me and already reading, so he will be bored to tears by lots of it, or he'll be like a LOT of little boys especially and NOT be interested/ready for that yet. (I see the first as more of a possibility.)
I went to a workshop that had a very interesting speaker--the main point I took from her presentation was that many children, especially boys, are *not* ready for what has happened to the curriculum in public schools--when I was in kindergarten, you didn't learn to read. you had half a day, 2 recesses (one before school one during) and you had gym time a couple days a week, painting, house corner, and very little sit and work at the table. Now they want kids to enter first grade able to read basic things. She said that many kindergarteners--especially boys--are still in the 'gross motor' stage of development. They still need to be spending a LOT of time running, jumping, playing, and until they grow out of this stage, they're simply not ready to sit down and read. (that's a summary anyway)
I'm going to be watching my son's development closely. I'm not going to put him through the frustration of either being pushed before he is ready or being held back from things. I agree, NCLB has added to an already-existing problem for kids who learn easily and quickly--now there's more pressure to teach to the lowest end of the class. You've even got to get your children with LD's to perform at grade level. They NEED special ed for a reason...*sigh*
NOT that i think we should underestimate anyone, there should be high goals for all, but there are some situations where the bar is being set TOO high. I don't want my son suffering because of it...