Should I not have my nephew circumcised?

[KHalton]

My sister died last week and I now have custody of her four children, one of whom is a 2 year old boy.
He is not circumcised, probably because she never had the money to do it. I can't imagine her not wanting him circumcised.
I just joined MDC ten minutes ago, and happened to notice this board. I am taking the kids to my family doctor tomorrow and intended to get a referral to someone to have Benny circumcised.
I am new to all things child related, but I thought all boys were supposed to be circumcised. Why wouldn't I circumcise him? And how will I take care of him if it's not done? Won't he have problems?

[Sharlla]

All the sticky threads above are full of great info. The bottom line why both of my sons are intact is thta #1 there is no reason to do it #2 it's his choice, not mine #3 tons of medical complications for doing it #4 circ will decrease his feeling down there #5 it looks ugly.

Boys are not suppose to be circed, they were born with their foreskin for a reason. HTH

[Tofu the Geek]

I am on my way to a meeting so only have a second here, but the bottom line is, whether or not to chop off part of a penis is up to the penis owner and no one else! In almost all cases, circumcision is cosmetic surgery and not necessary.

[Yoshua]

Originally Posted by KHalton

My sister died last week and I now have custody of her four children, one of whom is a 2 year old boy.
He is not circumcised, probably because she never had the money to do it. I can't imagine her not wanting him circumcised.
I just joined MDC ten minutes ago, and happened to notice this board. I am taking the kids to my family doctor tomorrow and intended to get a referral to someone to have Benny circumcised.
I am new to all things child related, but I thought all boys were supposed to be circumcised. Why wouldn't I circumcise him? And how will I take care of him if it's not done? Won't he have problems?

Please do not do this. It is not just a piece of skin. Please read this board.


It is very informative.



It is a protective piece of skin, even if you tried to pull it back at this point in time he will cry. Why? because it usually doesnt detatch from the head of hte penis until about 5 years old. Sometimes earlier.


THe foreskin is actually FUSED to the penis much like the fingernail is fused to the fingernail bed.




You never have to touch it, no more than a circed penis. There is nothing abnormal about it..... Just wash it like you would his pinky finger.


You never have to retract it.



Most medical insurance agencies will not cover a circumcision because it is purely a cosmetic surgery and the rates in the states for this surgery have been dropping dramatically since the 70's.



I am 25 years old. i am a Man. And I wish my mother hand never circumcized me.


80% of the worlds Viagra supply is sold in america. Also 80% of the worlds circumcized population resides in America. Coincidence?


Our society would never think of cutting the labia off or clitoral hood off however in Mid eastern countries they do this routinely for the 'same' justifications we cut off a boys foreskin.


Your sister had a plan in not circumcizing him. She may not have wanted to tell anyone because she didn't want to be chastised or told she was wrong.


She wasn't..... It is cutting off a functioning piece of a healthy body.


at 2 years old it is not a simple procedure anymore, many times stitches are involved because of the pain. At 2 years old the child can actually voice the pain they are going through instead of just crying.



There will be a month to 2 months of recovery for this surgery, where you will not be able to give him adequate pain medication and you will have to care for the wound....


Just leave it alone..... there is no need for it.... please hang around these boards and read up on intact penis's.....


You may have heard it is dirtier? It is not.... You never have to retract it, no matter what a dr or a mother or someone else tells you, European countries get along just fine without retracting their boys on a daily basis. It doesn't cross their mind.

Why? because retracting a penis before it is ready causes tiny tears in the foreskin and promotes infection. That is why we have so many problems with foreskins in america, because the Doctors are not trained on how to handle one......


Would you put a little girl through a cosmetic surgery because you wanted to?..... No..... please do not do it to this helpless little man who can not speak up and defend himself.

[LavenderMae]

First off all boys SHOULD have foreskin that's why they are born with it afterall.
Secondly the poor little guy just lost his mama the last thing he needs is the trauma of an unnecessary and painful surgery.

[KHalton]

I never knew it was a bad thing to do. I never would have thought that. I doubt my sister did it for his wellbeing honestly. Maybe he got lucky by default, but I find it incredibly hard to believe she didn't circumcise him because she thought it would be better for him.
I never once thought it was even an option. I thought it was just done. I've been pulling back the skin to clean it when I change his diaper because the social worker told me to. That's wrong too?
I'm not evil and I have no desire to hurt him. I am just completely clueless about children. I put the six year old in the car with just the seatbelt and put the 4 year old in the baby's ratty old shield booster and bought the three year old a booster because that's what the social workers and foster parents told me to do. She also told me that Benny wasn't circumcised and I had to clean him very carefully until I could get it done. She made it sound like it needed to be done as soon as possible.
I'm just trying to do right by these kids. Their mother was a dead beat and an addict and I have no clue who their fathers are. I went from being single and childless and living the high life to having four small kids and not knowing what to do with them.
Can you point me somewhere online to research circumcision and see why it's bad? I want to make an informed decision for him.

[Drummer's Wife]

Sorry about your loss, I can't imagine what your sister's children are going thru. But, It's hard for me to understand why on earth you would consider circumsizing her 2 year old child. Leave him alone, he was born with a forskin, your sister did NOT have him circumcised... there is no reason why his penis should be cut now. Read, read, read about why circumcision is horribly wrong.

Both my sons are not circumcised and neither is my husband, 2 brothers and dad. They are just fine, no problems, no special care is needed. A large majority of the males in the world are NOT circumcized. Leave him alone, it's his body not yours.

ETA: you don't need to pull back his foreskin to clean him, just wash around the outside. I think it's awesome that you are taking on this huge responsibility by raising your sister's children. And it's great that you are trying to educate yourself on child rearing. I imagine it's a hard time for you and you have a lot on your mind. Good luck with it all.

[Houdini]

Here is my story. I hope it helps.

My name is Rebecca. I was blessed with three boys and one girl. My three boys are circumcised and I have been doing research this past week about circumcision. I first started questioning it a slight bit in the last few months. My nephew is intact due to problems at birth and they were unable to circumcise him. I have found myself advocating keeping him intact without even really knowing why. I started thinking more on the subject after talking with Yoshua. I made a comment about the Case against Circumcision board and he let me know his thoughts. He is quite the advocate for keeping boys intact. We talked back and forth all this week through PM's and IM's. He even encouraged me to post on the board though I have to admit I was a bit intimidated by the idea. I was not sure how it would go over. I had a lot of things going through my mind at the time and wasn't sure of much of anything. I was also dealing with some unexpected feelings that came to surface which had little to do with circumcision; at least I couldn't initially figure out the connection. Yoshua was unwavering through all my questions and doubt. He always had a way of making his point without offending me or making me feel like I should be on the defensive. I have made the decision after much thought that circumcision is indeed wrong and unnecessary. I really have Yoshua to thank for encouraging me along. I have a thread in Case against Circumcision if you are interested in following a small part of my journey. Here are my stories.

My oldest son has a typical circumcision as far as I could tell. He is now eleven years old. I remember when he was circumcised in the hospital he was five days old. He weighed four pounds five and a half ounces. They weren't sure if they were even going to circumcise him because of his size, but decided at the last minute to go ahead with it. I remember being so upset when they brought him back to me and I changed his diaper the first time. It looked so sore and raw. I remember when the doctor came in to look at him and check the circumcision my son's hand inadvertently hit his penis separating the skin along the shaft from the head of his penis. I remember thinking that probably wasn't a good thing and the doctor even commented about that not being helpful. They just advised me to keep changing the bandage for a couple of extra days and he would be fine. We never had any other issues and his circumcision seemed to heal fine. However, now I wonder, after looking through some of the pictures, if he will have issues when he hits puberty. His circumcision looks very similar to this photograph I found on one the sites showing complications. http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/images/slide8.jpg. The remaining skin under the head of his penis is a bit tighter than the one in the picture. I always thought it healed that way from the way he hit his penis. I never even thought about it until now. I can only pray that he won't encounter problems as he grows and matures.

My middle son was circumcised at three days old. I never even thought anything of it. I just viewed it as a procedure that was done. He had what I believe is termed a loose circumcision. He didn't even appear to be circumcised most of the time. The head of his penis remained covered unless we pulled the foreskin back which we were told to do at each cleaning. He started having issues with adhesions when he approximately six months old. I was told by the pediatrician to just be sure I pulled his foreskin back and clean really well. He showed us how to pull the skin back so that the entire head was exposed. I remember how much my son cried and screamed when we did this to him. I was supposed to do this each diaper change so the adhesions would not return. I couldn't do it all the time, so I would try to do it once a week. He would cry for a day or two each time we did this to him because the skin was torn from his penis and it would cause pain upon urination. The pediatrician finally referred us to an urologist who recommended we have him circumcised again. He said the adhesions would keep coming back and the re-circumcision would prevent further issues. At eighteen months old my little boy was re-circumcised. After the surgery, we were brought to him and he seemed just fine. When the doctor came in, he wanted to show us how to care for his penis as there were eighteen stitches just below the head of his penis. You couldn’t see them when you took off his diaper because the remaining foreskin was still covering most of the head of his penis. The doctor instructed us to pull the skin over his penis and gently clean around the stitches. My son would scream and cry because of all the pain he was in, but we were told the stitches would become infected if we did not clean it properly. My son spent the next several years in fear of anyone touching penis. We taught him how to clean and pull the remaining skin over his penis, but we still would have to clean it sometimes for him. It took my husband and me to clean his penis. My husband would lie across him so he couldn't move and I would pull the skin back to clean it. I tried to by gentle, but it didn't matter. We continued doing this until he was close to five years old. He is now eight and he is in charge of cleaning his own penis. The head of his penis is still covered about halfway and he spends a lot of time pushing on his penis to get it back in what skin remains. He said it feels weird if it is out and he does not like the feeling. I would also get on him about doing this because it bothered me to watch him constantly pushing on his penis. I will no longer be reprimanding him for this as maybe it will help to save some of the sensitivity that I am sure will be gone once he grows and matures. I can only pray he doesn't loose as much as his brother who never had any skin covering the head of his penis.

My youngest son was circumcised at three days old as well. He has a loose circumcision as well. He had always appeared to not be circumcised. I used to have family ask me why we did not circumcise him. When I said we did, they would always say they did not take enough off. We did not have the adhesion issues with him as we did with his brother. He seemed to do just fine. I made sure to be more diligent in pulling his foreskin back and cleaning it because I feared a repeat of what happened with his brother. My youngest son is now five years old and I can say he had picked up on his brother's cues to push his penis in the remaining skin. The head of his penis is just now starting to be seen most of the time. He is intent on keeping the foreskin over it as much as possible. I used to reprimand him as well for "messing" with his penis. Now, I remain silent and pray for him as well. I have more regret than I ever thought I would for subjecting my boys to this unnecessary procedure. There is nothing I can do now, but pray they will understand and forgive me when they realize what I allowed to happen to them.

Thank you for taking the time to read this small novel of mine. It has actually helped to write it down and I hope it makes some amount of sense.

Rebecca

[Daisie125]

I only have a minute, but PLEASE stop pulling back his foreskin to clean under it! That is a HUGE NO-NO! It will hurt him!

[Pigpen]

Originally Posted by KHalton

My sister died last week and I now have custody of her four children.

I just have to say that YOU ARE AMAZING! I read your other post about the circumstances of this major life change and I'm so sorry for those kids, but so happy that they have you advocating for them now. The fact that you're here asking questions shows how much you are willing to do for them.
I have two intact boys and the only time I ever had a problem was after an unthinking doctor "accidentally" partially retracted my sons foreskin. You'll learn a lot here, just as I have about all things parenting. This board is soooo different than others so I'm glad you ended up here.

[blessedwithboys]

i am sorry for butting in, but your post brought tears to my eyes. i am so sorry you lost your sister, and feel very deeply for her babies. no matter how inattentive she may have been to them due to her illness, they have suffered a great loss. i also wanted to thank you for putting so much effort into these children. so many would never do this type of research, even for their own kids.

i didnt do it for mine, not until it was too late anyway. my boys have both been deprived of their foreskins, and i regret it terribly. please dont do it.

[Attached Mama]

Hi! Welcome to MDC and thanks for asking!

You can get tons of free info sent to you from www.nocirc.org they are great!!

But here is some to get you started!

circumcision is a *very painful* and unnecessary amputation of healthy functioning tissue.

did you know the foreskin has over 200 thousand nerve endings? it is the most sensitive part of the penis - as sensitive as fingertips or lips.

The surgery is not just a quick snip like we are led to believe. It is similiar to someone removing your pinky fingernail if it went all the way around your finger. It has to be cut down into, cut all around, and then cut around the bottom. This is because the foreskin is attached to the penis. It takes more than a minute or two and is very painful.

Pankillers for it include 4 shots similiar to novacaine in the base of hte penis which are extremely painful and traumatic in and of htemselves.Most docs don't use them because they also have side affects. If they are used, Docs often don't wait for the painkillers to "take" and proceed immed with the surgery. Even if they do wait the painkillers don't block all of the pain due to the amazing number of nerve endings in the foreskin. Plus they do nothing for the after pain.

many woman complain of men going on forever and irritation because the men are circumcised and it is actually difficult for the man to have an orgasm.

Woman can have vaginal orgasms much easier with an intact man because the man doesn't have to work so hard and is able to keep more pressure where the woman needs it.

The US is the only nation on earth practicing routine circ and even here it is down to only 34% being circ in some areas of the nation.

Circ began in the US in the victorian age when many docs believed it would prevent masturbation due to the extreme removal of sensitive body part. it was practiced to prevent masturbation up into the middle of this century. Also believed it would prevent diarrhea, epilepsy, mental retardation etc all of which seem ridiculous to us today. Then they started to say it prevented cancers and stds which has also been disproven. now they are saying from 1 study that it can prevent aids - but you still have to wear a condom to prevent aids so then it is a mute point whether you are intact or amputated. You wear a condom, you have a circ penis which is less sensitive and doesn't like a condom KWIM? So soon they will see the lack of logic in this and will be on to finding a new "reason"

circ does not prevent infections and is not "cleaner" the intact penis cleans itself similiar to the vagina or eyeball.

Well, I could go on and on but DD is teething and whiney. Congrats to you for looking into this before doing it and for taking in these children. Keep looking on Mothering here and I'm sure you will end up being a wonderful mom!!! It's the best job in the world!


PS - oh yeah - realize that docs make a ton of money off circ and that they also can make more by selling the foreskin to cosmetic co or bandaging co who use the tissue to make flexible bandages or anti-wrinkle creams. UGh! I know! but very true

[Yoshua]

I am so glad you are reading this.



Give me a few minutes and I will write something up for you about the 'quick reference' guide on what to do and what not to do.

[A&A]

I'm SO glad you're here! This board in general (Mothering) will help you a lot as you navigate raising those precious children. I'm so sorry to hear of the loss of your sister.

No, no, no, don't have your nephew circumcised! The poor thing has been through enough trauma with losing his mama. There is absolutely NO reason to circumcise him!

Here's an excellent "conversation" about why you shouldn't circumcise him:

http://oknocirc.blogspot.com/

And, as others have said, do NOT retract to clean him! That will only cause problems. The foreskin is fused to the glans.......much the way a fingernail is fused to the finger. You wash/wipe the OUTSIDE of the penis only. Sometime between now and puberty, he will retract on his own. (You shouldn't be the one to retract him......he should.)

When he hits puberty, you can teach him to gently retract his foreskin, wash underneath it with water (soap is irritating), and replace the foreskin.

Come back with any other questions you have, as well.

Also you can go to a local police department and they will be happy to talk to you about carseats.

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by KHalton

I never knew it was a bad thing to do. I never would have thought that. I doubt my sister did it for his wellbeing honestly. Maybe he got lucky by default, but I find it incredibly hard to believe she didn't circumcise him because she thought it would be better for him.

It is entirely possible your sister did opt to have him remain intact though.

Originally Posted by KHalton

I never once thought it was even an option. I thought it was just done. I've been pulling back the skin to clean it when I change his diaper because the social worker told me to. That's wrong too?

I was exactly where you were not so many months ago. Please read my journey....I re-posted it above. It isn't your decision to make for your nephew. He will have the option to have the surgery if he decides as an adult. You can't put the foreskin back on. The surgery is soo much more involved with a child. My son had 18 stitches around the head of his penis. We had to retract over the stitches each time we changes him. It took my son years, not a month or two, to not scream when someone came near his penis.

You should never pull the foreskin back.

Originally Posted by KHalton

I'm not evil and I have no desire to hurt him. I am just completely clueless about children. I put the six year old in the car with just the seatbelt and put the 4 year old in the baby's ratty old shield booster and bought the three year old a booster because that's what the social workers and foster parents told me to do. She also told me that Benny wasn't circumcised and I had to clean him very carefully until I could get it done. She made it sound like it needed to be done as soon as possible.
I'm just trying to do right by these kids. Their mother was a dead beat and an addict and I have no clue who their fathers are. I went from being single and childless and living the high life to having four small kids and not knowing what to do with them.

I don't think anyone here thinks you are evil or have a desire to hurt him. You can go through most health departments and obtain booster seats/carseats for free or a small fee. They can advise you as to what the children need to be safe in your car.

I applaud you for taking on such a huge responsiblity. It is a major change for all involved, but I am sure you will be just fine. Spend some time checking out other areas on this board. There is a wealth of information available to you.

[QUOTE=KHaltonCan you point me somewhere online to research circumcision and see why it's bad? I want to make an informed decision for him.[/QUOTE]

You can start with the stickies above and go from there. Please feel free to PM if you have any questions.

[A&A]

And here's a long thread of mamas who regret getting their sons circumcised:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=112410

[AutumnMama]

You've gotten some excellent advice so far. I'll just second it all by saying NO, you do not need to (and should not ) get him circumcised; and don't pull back his foreskin when changing/bathing him!
Both are absolutely unnecessary and will cause problems for him.
The social worker who told you to retract and clean his penis is unfortunately very misinformed (like many US doctors also).

Nothing needs to be done to your nephew's penis, just wipe over it like you would a finger and you're good to go!
Anything more can lead to tearing and infections.

I'm so glad you posted here, I think it's wonderful that you are caring enough to research this subject!


And a little off topic, but as far as the car seat situation goes, I would STRONGLY suggest you go to the forums at car-safety.org. There are lots of very helpful mamas/techs that will be able to assist you in finding (and find a tech to help with getting installed) the safest carseats for your little ones

Good luck to you in this big undertaking, it's GREAT that you're doing this for them...they will appreciate you for the rest of their lives!

[stellimamo]

Your sister died last week and you worried about whether you should circumcise her son? Don't you think he's been through enough trauma recently?

[Yoshua]

Ok. here I go. i apologize if this is a bit long


For starters, the foreskin.

There are 3 pieces of importance.

Ridged Band:
The tip of the foreskin sort of looks like a sphincter. That is the ridged band. It is designed to keep the foreskin tight around the head of the penis until the hormonal changes that usually occure sometimes between 5-14 and the child can retract on his own. If you retract this to early and regularly it will cause the ridged band to become scar tissue instead of elastic. This is a condition called 'phimosis'

Phimosis in america is usually considered curable by 'circumcision' but that is NOT the only cure. Stretching excerisized can also cure this. So it is ludicrous to cut off the foreskin if stretching it will cure it.... only in america.


Mucousal Skin: The inside of the foreskin.
This is moist, somewhat like the inside of the vagina. The purpose of this is to keep the head of the penis moist. It is actually intended to be a somewhat internal organ, much like the clitoris.

Circumsizing this removes this. That causes the head of the penis to dry out. This is why I wish I was never circumcized. Intact men actualy have more sensations DURING INTERCOURSE than just the orgasm, they actually have more feeling during sex. Circed men claim 'that sex is still good, or I don't feel broken' but that is because they have never researched it and have never experianced intact sex.


The skin Itself:
This is a protective layer, much like the clitoral hood. Imagine if you will, catching your clitoral hood in a zipper, that would hurt right? really bad? Now imagine of the hood wasn't there to protect it? What if you caught your actual CLITORIS in the zipper?.... That is the difference for men too, the hood vs the glans (head) getting caught.


It is there to protect.







Ok.... my next post will be about the care of the penis....

[Yoshua]

Originally Posted by stellimamo

Your sister died last week and you worried about whether you should circumcise her son? Don't you think he's been through enough trauma recently?

Some people are very vocal about their opinions.


Do not listen to them if that will cause you to leave the board.


many people will help educate you, thank you for listening and sticking around.


Some people feel very very passionate about this issue.