Devastated! My 16 mo quit nursing! - Page 2

[Robin926]

Originally Posted by Maranwë Calafalas

: Humans do not need to nurse for at least two years.

Actually, yeah, they do. They need the fats from breastmilk for proper brain development. That's why if a child is weaned before they are two, they're encouraged to drink formula and/or whole fat cow's milk until age 2. They need the fats, and common sense would suggest that we would rely on mother's milk for that and not cows.

[-'-,-{-`-{@]

It could certainly be a nursing strike, considering that he went from 3 to 0 so soon. However he could also be weaning. Yes it happens under age two. I think I get what Maranwe was saying, we do not know how long a child "needs" breastmilk. We know that they obviously should have it until they can eat and drink a healthful amount elswhere on their own. We can assert that undoubtedly, if you could keep them at the breast for near ten years, that would surely be optimum. But the point is CLW, is CLW, whether it happens before two or after ten. It sounds like you're doing great though! Just keep doing that. I wouldn't be suprised if he latched back on, and yeah, stikes can litterally take weeks in children this age. Good luck mama!

BTW, hi everybody!

[jet1295mamajenn]

Originally Posted by thismama

The stories you've heard are impossible, or heavily influenced by factors not disclosed to you. For children 18-24 mos, and certainly for children 6-12 months, breastfeeding is not only an emotional need, but a physical/nutritive need too.

A 6 month old who decides to self wean is committing suicide, as far as they know. If you start feeding formula that is one thing. But if you are just plain old nursing your babe the natural way, babies and young toddlers do not self wean.

One of my sisters was breastfeeding her first daughter (now 5 years old). She went back to work, but she worked at at daycare and her dd was able to be in one of the other classrooms. She pumped on her breaks, she nursed on her breaks. She nursed at night. She nursed when they were all still awake at home. Then when her dd was 8 months old, my sis got pg again. Suddenly, despite what she tried to do, her dd did not like her milk anymore and quit nursing. Perhaps my idea of child-led weaning is different or something. To me, it's the child easing off of nursing on his/her own for whatever reason rather than a very proactive weaning by Mom. Be it that Mom's milk changed due to a pregnancy or be it that Mom had to supplement with bottles or formula due to having to go back to work. This happened with same sister's second daughter. She was breastfeeding, but this time she had the children at a different child care provider than at her own work, so had to pump and use bottles more with #2 (will be 4 in October). #2 just liked bottles more so quit nursing. Due to sis's inability to quit due to financial need, she followed #2's lead here as well. Same sister is now still breastfeeding her 10-1/2 month-old son, who shows no signs of being anything but interested in nursing.

Two of dh's cousins were unsuccessful at nursing. One tried for a month or two and her son kept losing weight. I'm not sure if she tried getting help from a LC or not. She said she was sure it was because at the hospital nursery, the nurses gave him sugar water at times when she wasn't with him. But if she really tried at home, and he didn't "get it," there may have been other issues at hand, but the fact is that he didn't nurse well. Another cousin had successfully breastfed 3 out of her 4 children. When #4 came along, she was never able to get her to nurse. Not because she didn't want to or didn't try. It just didn't work out.

So, perhaps I'm just misunderstanding the concept of child-led weaning as everyone here sees it. Why is it impossible that a 16 month-old, who is very likely getting solids and drinking water and possibly an alternative "milk," might just lose interest in nursing anymore? Even if he/she still receives breastmilk in a cup, it's not coming directly from Mom's breast to child's mouth anymore (breast-feeding), even if the nutritional benefits of Mom's milk are still there. Is CLW only when the child has been getting nothing but breastmilk for two years or more and then is ready to move on? Or is it truly when for whatever reason, the child refuses to nurse, and refuses to nurse, and refuses to nurse. Not just a strike. I HAVE heard of plenty moms whose babes just lost all interest, period, around a year or so. It's not impossible. And when I talk about 6 month olds who have weaned from the breast, their moms HAVE continued on with either expressed breastmilk (if they had any...some moms have been on meds or have had other issues that cause problems with their milk production) or with formula. I'm not talking about a 6 month old not taking any form of liquid nutrition at all.

Anyway. Again, I'm just trying to be a support to moms whose children are seeming to want to quit nursing sooner than 2 years. It does happen, for whatever reason, believe it or not.

I am VERY much a breastfeeding advocate! I'm happy to say that I helped one of dh's sisters continue breastfeeding and cosleeping beyond a year. She went to about 37 mos with breastfeeding and is still cosleeping her 38 month-old son. Another one of their sisters breastfeeds, but chooses to wean around a year old, and was trying to encourage the other sister to wean her son. She was having a hard time thinking of doing that, so I told her to go as long as was right for she and her son and not to listen to anyone else. I'm thrilled when people are breastfeeding! Got all excited when I learned a friend of mine is breastfeeding...not sure what she was doing until she mentioned it. I just don't like moms feeling guilty or being made to feel like they're not doing enough if the child loses interest, despite their best attempts, sooner than they planned.

As I mentioned before, I breastfed my son until 2-1/2 - 3. Still breastfeeding my 29 month old daughter and she's still quite interested most of the time. BIG night nurser.


JET

[jet1295mamajenn]

Originally Posted by -'-,-{-`-{@

It could certainly be a nursing strike, considering that he went from 3 to 0 so soon. However he could also be weaning. Yes it happens under age two. I think I get what Maranwe was saying, we do not know how long a child "needs" breastmilk. We know that they obviously should have it until they can eat and drink a healthful amount elswhere on their own. We can assert that undoubtedly, if you could keep them at the breast for near ten years, that would surely be optimum. But the point is CLW, is CLW, whether it happens before two or after ten. It sounds like you're doing great though! Just keep doing that. I wouldn't be suprised if he latched back on, and yeah, stikes can litterally take weeks in children this age. Good luck mama!

BTW, hi everybody!

Thanks. I'm afraid that what I'm trying to say is being misunderstood/misconstrued. My point is that "CLW is CLW" and to force and battle with a child who really seems to be done with it despite Mom's best efforts is no longer really CLW anymore. It's Mom really hoping for EB, and that is understandable.

JET

[jet1295mamajenn]

Originally Posted by alegna

These days the mentality in mainstream culture is to wean to formula. Of course humans are not designed to do that. If a child still needs some form of formula or milk for nutrition they are not ready to wean. Period.

-Angela

Yes. Formula or cow/soy/rice/goat/whatever-milk. When I've mentioned earlier weaning than 2 years, I'm speaking solely of earlier weaning from the breast. And sometimes this happens sooner than 2 years. Breastmilk is absolutely best. My 29 month old loves to climb up and say "I wanna nurse," then point to my boob and say "Mama milk good!"

JET

[alegna]

It's not CLW if it's forced by a pregnancy IMO. Not saying that those moms should feel badly in any way, just that it is not CLW.

-Angela

[Robin926]

I agree that circumstances that cause weaning aren't necessarily CLW. A nursling of a pg mama may wean because of changes in taste or supply, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have kept nursing if those hadn't happened. It's no one's "fault," just a different circumstance. As another example, I suffered from low supply from the beginning with DS. Without going into all the details, I ended up having to supplement from 6 weeks on. He nursed and had his formula for quite a while, but eventually he started to prefer the bottle since he was working so hard for so little from me. There came a point when he would.not.latch.on anymore, no matter what I tried. I kept trying for months, but he was adamantly refusing. I exclusively pumped what little milk I could until I dried up. (Of course perhaps if I'd used an SNS, this never would've happened, but that's a post for another forum!)

My point is, my DS would not nurse anymore, but it was definitely not CLW. It was forced by circumstances. He was getting milk from another source that was plentiful, and he just would not remain on the breast. I accept that for it was, but CLW it was not.

Nursing strikes and bottle preference are not CLW.

[-'-,-{-`-{@]

Originally Posted by jet1295mamajenn

Thanks. I'm afraid that what I'm trying to say is being misunderstood/misconstrued. My point is that "CLW is CLW" and to force and battle with a child who really seems to be done with it despite Mom's best efforts is no longer really CLW anymore. It's Mom really hoping for EB, and that is understandable.

JET

Sure! Absolutely, I agree. And that is why I think the OP is doing just the right things. Topless snuggles are the best way to just wait for him to decide either way. He knows it's there, but he knows it isn't expected of him if he doesn't want to. I know how she feels, because I also had an "early" CLW child, and you just don't understand how they could "not want" to have you/your milk! For months I hoped it was a strike, even though he had done the gradual drop-off right down to just one. I just couldn't accept it. Very painful.

[sebarnes]

Weaning influenced by pregnancy, heavy supplementation (whether formula, bottles, pacies or food), problems in the BF relationship or extended absence of baby from mom is not CLW. Period. These things can cause a child to lose interest in the breast, but they are factors outside of the natural mom/child relationship, and therefore not truly child led.

To the OP - I understand your saddness and mourning about your relationship. It does sound like a strike, and I hope that you are able to keep int from turning into a weaning. You sound like you are trying to do a lot of good things to encourage your dc back to the breast, and you have received a lot of good suggestions from PP. Good luck, and keep us posted!

[eminer]

My point is that "CLW is CLW" and to force and battle with a child who really seems to be done with it despite Mom's best efforts is no longer really CLW anymore. It's Mom really hoping for EB, and that is understandable.

No, it's mom hoping for B, just like it would have been at 3 weeks or 6 months. The existence of formula/cow's milk/soy milk is nice, but it doesn't make the normal course of human lactation "extended". You are conflating nursing problems that end in early weaning with a normal process. Sure, if problems arise, mom should not be guilted or told that she must keep trying at all costs. But they are still problems, and therefore the appropriate response (both from the mom and from her supporters) is quite different from what the normal process would provoke. The reason why children from 6 months to under 2 years are commonly described as self-weaning is that we have a cultural expectation that these are normal ages for weaning. Meanwhile, you who are nursing a 2yo are comfortable with the adjective "extended", and nursing to 4+yo is considered by most people to border on abuse. That's why we have a CLW forum: it's supposed to be a little supportive bubble where we don't have to hear that we are "forcing" our kids to nurse along a biologically normal timeline.

[iot]

Similar situation

This is in response to the original poster. I am new to this forum and came looking for some information on nursing strikes, because me and my daugther (15 months old) are going through one. Your situation sounds very similar to mine, except that my dd was nursing 4-5 times during the day and suddenly stopped while she was sick. It's been a week and she hasn't resumed nursing, and I'm trying to keep the hope that she'll go back, because this was so sudden and I don't think she was ready (neither am I). The hardest part is everybody assuming this is weaning, so I feel reassured reading the responses to your post, as most of them agree that weaning is almost never this abrupt. I was going to ask if anyone had sucess stories on nursing strikes, because I would really benefit from some encouragement. I also wanted to tell you I totally empathize with the way you are feeling, because I feel the same way. I'm really sad and hearbroken about this situation, I feel that emptiness you mentioned, and the feeling of being somehow "disconnected" from my child. You described my own feelings very well! I think it's normal to feel this way. I agree, it's really hard to suddenly not have something so important in your relationship with your baby. I'm still holding on to hope, and keep pumping milk to keep my supply. I wish you the best of luck!! keep us posted...

[jet1295mamajenn]

Originally Posted by sebarnes

Weaning influenced by pregnancy, heavy supplementation (whether formula, bottles, pacies or food), problems in the BF relationship or extended absence of baby from mom is not CLW. Period. These things can cause a child to lose interest in the breast, but they are factors outside of the natural mom/child relationship, and therefore not truly child led.

To the OP - I understand your saddness and mourning about your relationship. It does sound like a strike, and I hope that you are able to keep int from turning into a weaning. You sound like you are trying to do a lot of good things to encourage your dc back to the breast, and you have received a lot of good suggestions from PP. Good luck, and keep us posted!

Thanks for clearing up the meaning of CLW for me.

JET

[jet1295mamajenn]

Originally Posted by eminer

No, it's mom hoping for B, just like it would have been at 3 weeks or 6 months. The existence of formula/cow's milk/soy milk is nice, but it doesn't make the normal course of human lactation "extended". You are conflating nursing problems that end in early weaning with a normal process. Sure, if problems arise, mom should not be guilted or told that she must keep trying at all costs. But they are still problems, and therefore the appropriate response (both from the mom and from her supporters) is quite different from what the normal process would provoke. The reason why children from 6 months to under 2 years are commonly described as self-weaning is that we have a cultural expectation that these are normal ages for weaning. Meanwhile, you who are nursing a 2yo are comfortable with the adjective "extended", and nursing to 4+yo is considered by most people to border on abuse. That's why we have a CLW forum: it's supposed to be a little supportive bubble where we don't have to hear that we are "forcing" our kids to nurse along a biologically normal timeline.

My point was simply that the mom shouldn't be "guilted or told that she must keep trying at all costs." If it picks up again, that's fabulous! But if it's tapered off and interest does not resume no matter what she tries, she shouldn't feel bad about that and no one should make her feel that way.

I wasn't saying that anyone was forcing her child to nurse (my words force & battle were not a personal reflection on anyone, just a thought regarding if a mom is really getting frustrated pushing and the child just is fighting it and doesn't stop fighting it). Just that if a child really is refusing to nurse, and the mom has tried her best, it seems like it would only be even more stressful for both mom & babe to continue to "try at all costs." Sigh. I wish I could say what I'm thinking without it coming out all jumbled and easily misinterpreted.

JET

[sebarnes]

Originally Posted by jet1295mamajenn

Sigh. I wish I could say what I'm thinking without it coming out all jumbled and easily misinterpreted.

JET

It is very hard to get meaning across when you are posting online, isn't it?

[alegna]

Originally Posted by jet1295mamajenn

[COLOR="SeaGreen"Just that if a child really is refusing to nurse, and the mom has tried her best, it seems like it would only be even more stressful for both mom & babe to continue to "try at all costs."
[/COLOR]

If the child is near 18 months or older, I could agree with you, however if we are talking about a child a year or younger I strongly disagree.

-Angela

[sebarnes]

Originally Posted by alegna

If the child is near 18 months or older, I could agree with you, however if we are talking about a child a year or younger I strongly disagree.

-Angela

:

[jet1295mamajenn]

Originally Posted by alegna

If the child is near 18 months or older, I could agree with you, however if we are talking about a child a year or younger I strongly disagree.

-Angela

And see this is where I get confused all over again. I've been told on here that practically anything under 2 years old isn't child led weaning, and that something else is to blame.

AAAACKKK!

Ready to give up on understanding and go back to my blissful, happy world of nursing my toddler and going with what feels right for us.

JET

[alegna]

Originally Posted by jet1295mamajenn

And see this is where I get confused all over again. I've been told on here that practically anything under 2 years old isn't child led weaning, and that something else is to blame.

In general I agree, but everything is a matter of degrees. IMO if the child was over 18 months then I would evaluate the situation to decide what's going on. If the child was a year there would be no question.

Edited to elaborate- In GENERAL I say that babies should absolutely not have solids under 6 months (plus a list of readiness signs) BUT an occaisional baby may show all the other signs and be ready at 5 1/2 months. BUT a 3 month old, even if showing all the other signs, isn't ready IMO. Does that help? Or confuse things further?

-Angela

[jul511riv]

I disagree...children can wean at whatever age...cause all kids are DIFFERENT!!!

Maybe you are pregnant? Or you are eating an offending food? DD pulled this one on me when I was pregnant...though I didn't know it at the time. LOL. Smarty pants. But I digress.

You can always offer the boob, if you are interested in that. Or you can just be sure to give baby the opportunity if an interest resumes. Probably shouldn't push the issue too much...if you are in to CHILD LED.

Again, investigate the pregnant thing. It happens...

[Brazilianmommy]

I agree every child is different my dd stopped nursing at 9 months I though she was way to young to stop I offer her while she was falling asleep but even though that didn't work so she doesn't nurse anymore and now I'm pregnant I hope she starts again when the baby is born she will be 18 months so I have hopes..