Circumcision-Why is is bad? PLEASE HELP - Page 4

[Revamp]

Originally Posted by ~gilli~

What I am wondering is why the anti-circ information is not more scientifically based, and seems to be purely ancedotal?

Oh there is plenty of annecdotal pro-circ testimony out there, I hear the old "I know someone who had to get one when they were an adult" line all the time...

Another person even wrote that she only knew one intact man and he was not a very nice person. Apparently that informed her eventual decision!

It is natural for people to pool on personal experience. Neither side of this issue are excluded from that.

Or if it does have some science background, it is from an anti-circ website, and you can't crossreference the studies.

Could you give me some examples of facts you wish to dispute?

This is confusing.

I know! How could such a developed nation amputate a healthy erogenous zone as part of a routine!

To be honest it still baffles me.

[Islay]

ConfusedPrincess, I'm afraid the onus is on you to provide evidence of why RIC is so necessary.

Asking for medical/scientific data on the purpose of a foreskin is as unproductive as providing similar data about our fingers and toes or any other normal part of our bodies - unless you're studying anatomy at medical school.

Christopher

[No2Circ]

http://oknocirc.blogspot.com/

[sadkitty]

Originally Posted by Robin926

Why do you need scientific studies telling you NOT TO amputate healthy, functioning parts of a newborn? Leaving a boy intact should be the default state

:

[Telle Bear]

When I was pregnant I was in the same postion. I had done a little bit of research and this was the best advice I was given....

If there is even an inch of doubt, don't do it. After giving birth and holding your baby you go through this overwhelming emotional rollercoaster. To make ANY life altering desicion at that point is not a good idea. Just wait a couple of weeks and revisit the issue then. Get to know your baby, establish a relationship and then decide what you feel is best for your family and more importantly your baby.

[nd_deadhead]

ConfusedPrincess, congratulations on your pregnancy!

In your first post, you indicated that everything you had read about infant circumcision was in favor of it. Possibly you stumbled on some pro-circumcision web sites (don't be fooled when a site claims to be "unbiased!") They will tell you that circumcision prevents UTIs, STDs, penile cancer, and zipper injury. They will tell you that the circumised penis is cleaner and more attractive, and that if left intact, your son will be ridiculed by his peers and girlfriends. These are called SCARE TACTICS.

Try to look at this objectively - as if you had never heard of circumcision. You hope and pray for 9 months to deliver a healthy, normal, perfect baby. When you are blessed with such a baby, doesn't it seem bizarre to sign him up for an operation before he even leaves the hospital?

Consider the "medical benefits" of circumcision. Prevents UTIs? Not really. Circumcised males can and do get UTIs.The most current research indicates that intact boys have a slightly higher rate of UTIs in their first year; after that, circumcised males have a higher rate. But put that in perspective - litle girls are FAR more likely to get a UTI than a little boy, regardless of circumcsiion status. Boys already have a low UTI risk! And it can be made even lower by breastfeeding.

Prevents penile cancer? Not really. Circumcised males can and do get penile cancer. But put this into perspective: our sons are more likely to get breast cancer than penile cancer. The American Cancer Society does not list having a foreskin as a risk factor for penile cancer - the primary risk factors are poor hygiene, unprotected sex with multiple partners, and smoking. We can protect our sons against penile cancer by teaching them appropriate behavior.

Prevents STDs? Not really. Circumcised men can and do get STDs, including HIV. The best way to protect against STDs is to practice safe sex. Since babies do not have sex, they do not need to be protected at all! If our sons decide that they do not want to use condoms, they can get themselves circumcised, IF they believe it will protect them against STDs.

I do agree with the poster who asked you to look at this from the opposite angle. Rather than ask "Why shouldn't I cut off my son's foreskin?", perhaps you should ask yourself "Why SHOULD I?"

[calngavinsmom]

Originally Posted by ~gilli~

What I am wondering is why the anti-circ information is not more scientifically based, and seems to be purely ancedotal? Or if it does have some science background, it is from an anti-circ website, and you can't crossreference the studies.

This is confusing.

I really don't understand why you think this....Almost all of the "anti-circ" articles that can be found on this thread or on this board for that matter, are from medical journals or statements from medical organizations or at the very least have footnotes which reference where the information comes from(studies, journals ect.) There are very few "ancedotal" references and if there are, they can be easily backed by science.

Here is a great example of the use of footnotes:
http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...cumcision.html

And another article with great refernces:
http://www.circumcision.org/studies.htm

This one even has links right in the article that take you to the origional source:
http://www.cirp.org/library/statements/ Doesn't get much easier than that.

All of these, very reputable, pro genital integrity (anti-circumcision) websites are also easily cross referenced:
http://www.cirp.org/
http://www.circumcision.org/
http://www.infocirc.org/
http://www.courtchallenge.com/

And there is also a ton of information in the "Web Resources" sticky at the top of the forum.

Take care,
Tara

[njeb]

Also, keep in mind that most people circumcise for very UN-scientific reasons--to look like Dad, so he won't be made fun of in the locker room, because "everybody" does it, etc.

Besides, what other body part is routinely amputated because it might cause problems later? Men are much more likely to have to have their appendix out than to have problems with their foreskins, yet they are not subjected to routine appendectomies 24 hours after birth. Little girls have a one in eight (or is it one in nine?) chance of getting breast cancer, yet their breast buds are not removed after birth, either. Circumcision just seems illogical to me.

[ConfusedPrincess]

Originally Posted by Fi.

I'm wondering if some of these European men she encountered were just erect and she couldn't tell the difference.

GRRR I am soo upset and offended by your comment. Beside the fact that you are accusing me of being some sleazy woman who has seen multiple erect european dicks- HOW DARE YOUinsult my intelligence for not knowing the difference. It makes me sad that you have to offend and accuse me of such things to feel better about the fact that I'm being curious and questioning why people do or don't do something. Q

[ConfusedPrincess]

Originally Posted by Fi.

Why give ancedotes? You can give the statements and numbers of these countries to prove your points.

B/c I'm not here to PROVE any points. If you read my replys clearly you would see I was stating my opinion. I don't need to PROVE anything to anyone I just want clear reason why people who are anti-circumcision find the need to (in the real world even) what to do with their own child when there are plenty of men in teh world living just fine on both sides of this argument.

[Overproducktion]

ConfusedPrincess-- Have you had time to look at the material/links? What's your thoughts on those? The video of the circ was the biggest eye opener for me.

[onlyboys]

Originally Posted by ConfusedPrincess

GRRR I am soo upset and offended by your comment. Beside the fact that you are accusing me of being some sleazy woman who has seen multiple erect european dicks- HOW DARE YOUinsult my intelligence for not knowing the difference. It makes me sad that you have to offend and accuse me of such things to feel better about the fact that I'm being curious and questioning why people do or don't do something. Q

So, then, where HAVE you seen all these circed, European penises?

And, are you interested in not circing your son? I'm a little confused by your anger and defensiveness.

[kldliam]

Princess

If you feel the need to engage in infant genital cutting please don't try to convert us so as to make yourself feel better about it.

[Overproducktion]

Yes, many men are living fine now. But once you hold that new baby in your arms, that innocent, trusting baby who is depending on you to keep it safe, and knowing what you know now, wouldn't you want to keep him the way he was designed? Please, if your baby is a boy, please don't make the same mistakes I did.

[ConfusedPrincess]

Originally Posted by Lara vanÆsir

Here's a page which statesn that 80% of the world's men are intact.
http://www.cirp.org/library/general/wallerstein/

]

first I'd liek to thank you for that link I appreciate it. However,not to be rude,all it said was that 80% of the world pop. doesn't practice circumcision that's not the same as saying that 80% of the world's men are intact. I'm also curious as I saw nothing on that page stating how that info. came about...I mean was every man in the world actually consulted for that info.?

[Robin926]

Originally Posted by ConfusedPrincess

GRRR I am soo upset and offended by your comment. Beside the fact that you are accusing me of being some sleazy woman who has seen multiple erect european dicks- HOW DARE YOUinsult my intelligence for not knowing the difference. It makes me sad that you have to offend and accuse me of such things to feel better about the fact that I'm being curious and questioning why people do or don't do something. Q

No one called you sleazy. I'm sorry that you're feeling so defensive. And you don't have to be stupid to not know the difference when you see an intact penis erect. The first intact penis I ever saw, I knew it was intact beforehand, but when I saw him erect, I honestly couldn't tell much of a difference. A lot of men (not all) retract when they are erect, and then the penis looks almost the same (minus the extremely tight skin, keratinized glans, and the scarring of course).

[onlyboys]

Originally Posted by ConfusedPrincess

first I'd liek to thank you for that link I appreciate it. However,not to be rude,all it said was that 80% of the world pop. doesn't practice circumcision that's not the same as saying that 80% of the world's men are intact. I'm also curious as I saw nothing on that page stating how that info. came about...I mean was every man in the world actually consulted for that info.?

No, but in a country like Germany where docs do not perform circumcisions, how does one become circed? If 80% of the men in the world are not circed doesn't that stand to reason that they are intact?

[laprettygurl]

Originally Posted by onlyboys

No, but in a country like Germany where docs do not perform circumcisions, how does one become circed? If 80% of the men in the world are not circed doesn't that stand to reason that they are intact?

:

If there's no circumcision going on they're intact unless they're doing some sort of DIY *shudder*

[onlyboys]

And, I can't imagine there are HUGE numbers of Eurpoeans engaging in DIY circ.

[ConfusedPrincess]

Originally Posted by A&A

We give what we give. Take it or leave it. I just love it when "newbies" (as you are) dictate to us how our information will be presented. You're just lucky we're here in the first place, sister, spending our time because we find it important to do so. You don't listen to us? It's your son who will suffer because of it.

.

Oh my let me bow down to the "veteran queen of this forum"..sorry I'm not worthy of your respect. I hardly would consider it Lucky to have you so sarcastically refer to me as 'lower' than you. New flash: this is a comp. forum not real life -just cos you've posted more than me doesn't make you a better person. And yes I specifically said I wasn't interested in personal opinions b/c everyone has one(hopefully) and I wasn't interested in them..all I have to do is look at another topic on here to read your opinions. So after reading my first post you would've known I was polite enough to ask not for these types of replys. But no you still found the need to come in here and make your self feel so importatn to try to put me down by saying im not aloud to ask that of all of you? The fact that you have the time to disregard my requests and act all high and mighty-I mean come one get over it..If my "newbie" staus and post bothered you so then don't come and reply just leave it alone. LMAO you're hilarious-let me go thank 'god' that I'm so lucky to have you here..