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Circumcision - Why is it bad? - Page 6

post #101 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConfusedPrincess

OK look I'm am starting to tear up right now. It bothers me so much how people attack, assume and accuse without knowing where i truly stand and why I want to know this information. I'll admit some of you have gotten specific and asked me to clarify and be more specific. Well I'm sorry i can't do that for you (here come the tears) from the way i feel I've been treated i don't feel comfortable to open to and explain my motives-that would involve giving specific information about my personal life -to understand what I'm here for.
Let me hint at something here: did you all ever in school or from your parents, been asked to give reasoning for something and then they fired back all these contradicting statements and what not-instead of just accepting your answer. Like they made you really prove your point-not cos they didn't personally believe you but b/c they wanted you to be able to deal with other other people's opposing opinions. What I'm trying to say is...maybe I'm trying to push to bring out very convincing points for anti-circ and that's why I'm pushing buttons to get the best answers-not necessarily for myself.

Just trust me I'm not here to debate or even argue I would simply liek some help with an important and serious issue I'm currently dealing with ...maybe if the mood changes around here I can feel open to share my personal struggle with you -I just thought I'd get better info. this way. Just keep in mind that I'm not a bad person, I'm not wanting to upset anyone-I just want to see how you would respond when someone fired back instead of saying "oh ok i see the light now" cos maybe, just maybe I'll be in your shoes having to explain myself in a few months...

I know I'm starting to get off topic and go into a lil oh poor me my life is so hard rant...anyways I know I was giving it back to some of you but I felt really offended that as soon as you *assumed* I was pro-circ you treated me unkind.If anyone has a "warm" reply I could possibly discuss in a private message some of my concerns. I really would like your help since I don't have anyone in my personal life who I could discuss my concerns with. Thanks
Sorry if we upset you.

What exactly is it that you want from us? I am sure that we will do our best to provide it.
post #102 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConfusedPrincess
.....
Just trust me I'm not here to debate or even argue I would simply liek some help with an important and serious issue I'm currently dealing with ...maybe if the mood changes around here I can feel open to share my personal struggle with you -I just thought I'd get better info. this way. Just keep in mind that I'm not a bad person, I'm not wanting to upset anyone-I just want to see how you would respond when someone fired back instead of saying "oh ok i see the light now" cos maybe, just maybe I'll be in your shoes having to explain myself in a few months.....
Can I guess here that you are dealing with either you baby's father, or your parents, who are pressuring you to circ?
You want resources, not opinions, to convince somebody?
What are the arguments they have? If they have specific reasons we can address those. But trying to guess what info you need is like shooting in the dark.
post #103 of 122
Oh, and please, Confused Princess, MOST of us here have been in the position of people trying to "fire back" against solid anti-circ info.

Not even just online, but in the "real" world, too.

It's always futile on their part, mostly because circumcision isn't a practice rooted in logical thinking or medical necessity-- it's a cultural/tribal/religious practice, and once you reject the notion that a kid's genitals can be marked for the sake of "culture," you've pretty much pulled the rug out from under the whole charade.

Everything else is just an excuse.
post #104 of 122
Please give us examples of specific questions you feel you might need to react to in the future. You do not need to tell us all your personal info, but we need more specific questions, otherwise we can do little except guess a motives and answer according to what we each see as the most relevant points to US.
post #105 of 122
Thread Starter 
I guess it was a mistake for me to post here...I've been given some interesting, detailed and informative information . While I think it's wonderful all of you stand so strongly behind your opinion/belief -at the same time it means you are so against acknowledging any sort of truth to any bit of info from the other side of it.and that's totally fine I guess I'll just have to do the best i can and see what happens. Thank you to those of you who were kind and did not pass jusdgement. Also thank you for all the links. I'm sorry for upsetting anyone who thought they knew me. Love and joy goes out to all of you -maybe i'll get to chat with some of you later on. Once again sorry to confuse you all with my posts :
post #106 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConfusedPrincess
-at the same time it means you are so against acknowledging any sort of truth to any bit of info from the other side of it.
What truth would that be?
post #107 of 122
I'm out. She has all the information folks. She has everything she needs. She's defensive and she won't explain herself and she has made it clear that she isn't going to any time soon.

Princess, please read what has been posted and take some time to think things through. When you have specific questions that we can specifically answer I think this will go a lot better.

In the mean time I am moving on.
post #108 of 122
Quote:
-at the same time it means you are so against acknowledging any sort of truth to any bit of info from the other side of it.
If you'd quit being so vague and tell us what "truths" you're talking about, maybe there could be a productive discussion.
post #109 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConfusedPrincess
-at the same time it means you are so against acknowledging any sort of truth to any bit of info from the other side of it.
What kind of truth? Once again, we need specifics if we are to do more than speculate about which "facts" we need to dispute. You have, thus far, cited no concrete info of your own. i like too argue as much as the next guy, but you have not adressed any of the science you are so adament about.
post #110 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConfusedPrincess
I guess it was a mistake for me to post here...I've been given some interesting, detailed and informative information . While I think it's wonderful all of you stand so strongly behind your opinion/belief -at the same time it means you are so against acknowledging any sort of truth to any bit of info from the other side of it.and that's totally fine I guess I'll just have to do the best i can and see what happens. Thank you to those of you who were kind and did not pass jusdgement. Also thank you for all the links. I'm sorry for upsetting anyone who thought they knew me. Love and joy goes out to all of you -maybe i'll get to chat with some of you later on. Once again sorry to confuse you all with my posts :
If you're out to use the Socratic method on us, as you kind of describe your teachers at school doing, you are going to have to use some very specific lines of questioning and intellectual probing.

Which you have, so far, not done.

All you've done is get mad and defensive and teary-- that's not at all a way of refining your line of thinking on anything. Or ours.

And it sure as heck isn't going to protect your baby.
post #111 of 122
Quote:
I'm out.
post #112 of 122

out

CP said:
Quote:
Once again sorry to confuse you all with my posts

I wasn't confused by your posts at all. :
They were all pretty clear.


Love and joy to you too!
post #113 of 122
Surely you can understand that, by coming here and acting the part of some mystery person in your own life who is advocating circumcision, you had us all convinced that that was YOU? This IS a computer, not real life, as you pointed out. You may have been trying to get information to use in your arguments, but how could we know that? It's not so hard to say: "my husband/family/friends think circumcision is a good thing, for these reasons. Are they right? How can I refute their arguments?"

We have mamas come here all the time with that exact post. You don't have to tell your name, their names, or where you live. It's as anonymous as it gets, and we are here to help. but you have to shoot straight so we can do that. Please?
post #114 of 122
I believe more than one person addressed the pro-circ "truths" and why they don't hold up. The foreskin being a natural and functioning part of the male body isn't opinion it is fact.
post #115 of 122

I'm so sorry

Oh honey, I am so sorry that you're confused... I know becoming a parent is a wonderfully scary thing...

Here's my 2 cents...

It seems like your really unsure of whether or not to circ, right? Personally, I chose to leave my DS intact, for various reason. I had to explain my decision more often than not, but regardless... it is a procedure that DS can choose to have when he is older, but I decided not to take away that choice from him.

There are no medical benefits to circ'ing. None.

If your unsure at all about whether you want to circ... DON'T DO IT! It can always be done later. But don't make an irreversible decsion without being 100% positive that it what you want to do.
post #116 of 122
I hope that the info provided here in the links will keep you thinking. I wish you could tell us tho exactly what you meant by the other truths. If we knew them we could address the specifically. There are so many myths out there about the intact penis that are thought of as truths but they just are not. So many mom's have posted in the sticky if you regret circing your son. Maybe read there and get more of a perspective? I wish I did know you irl so that we could sit down and go over things so that we could get down to the crust of the problem.

Please for the sake of your son don't give up on the truth read, read and then read some more. Remember that if you are doubting circ there is a reason for it you know in your heart the right answer.

Remember to that your son is the one that will have to deal with the consequences of circ and all the things that can and do go wrong. I will include here a link to some of the complication pictures of circ so that you can see that they are very common some of them are not considered major but still they shouldn't have happened at all.

Warning pictures of Male Genitals"
Link
Link
Link
LinkThis picture is especially unpleasant
Link

I don't show you these to try to scare you but these are the facts of circ.


My dh asked me the other day why it was so important to me. My answer was because little boys are suffering every day because of myths and irresponsible dr's who still do this procedure even tho they know that it is not medically needed. So many people know about the other issues that affect children. So many people advocate for other important things like breastfeeding and stopping child abuse. But not many here in the USA think about circ as a issue at all. It is just what is done and has been done for so long. Someone has to stand up and let others know the damage and injustice these little babies go thru. How anyone could inflict pain upon a helpless newborn without having a valid medical reason is beyond me. Think how you would feel coming out all fresh and new never having known pain and then all the sudden you are strapped down to a board and someone starts cutting on you. Babies have been proven to feel pain more acutely than a grown person because there nerves are so new and haven't had pain before.

Many men here in the USA suffer from circ but have no idea that is what the issue is. On avg a circed man will experience ED 10yrs sooner than his intact counterpart. Woman suffer because they think there painfully vaginal dryness during sex is because of them when in fact it circ is to blame.

No one in my family supported my decision not to circ not even my dh but my responsibility is to the health and well being of my child. If it bothers them, tough I don't owe them anything. Harsh yes but I would die for my kids and I will protect them with the last breath in my body.
post #117 of 122
Gonna have to agree with kdliam on this one. But anyway, threads like this only help our cause. I have never seen such a nasty tone on MDC as I did in one of the OP's posts.

Circumcise your baby - maybe you have given him a slightly lower risk of UTIs, but you could have fixed this with simple antibiotics. Maybe you'll decrease the chance he will get AIDS - but it hasn't worked for all the circ'ed men in this country. He should be using condoms anyway. Make his penis look like the ones you are used to - except that neither you nor no one your age will be sleeping with him, and this generation is growing up half circ'ed and half intact - I don't think "normalcy" will be a problem. And when you circ him for all these benefits, you'll also decrease his sexual sensitivity, cause him tremendous pain, and risk penile amputation and death. You'd be disgusted by female circumcision, so try to stretch your imagination and see that male circumcision is no different, except that you are used to it.

Now I'm done wasting my breath.
post #118 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin926
No one called you sleazy. I'm sorry that you're feeling so defensive. And you don't have to be stupid to not know the difference when you see an intact penis erect. The first intact penis I ever saw, I knew it was intact beforehand, but when I saw him erect, I honestly couldn't tell much of a difference. A lot of men (not all) retract when they are erect, and then the penis looks almost the same (minus the extremely tight skin, keratinized glans, and the scarring of course).
I had seen two circumcised baby penises (my brothers') and couldn't tell if my ex-bf was circumcised or not (he wasn't). I spent HOURS online in high school trying to figure out if he was or not and what an intact penis looks like On a school computer no less It's certainly not unusual to not be able to tell if one has only seen circumcised penises...

love and peace.
post #119 of 122
Here's one medical thing which cements my knowledge that circumcision is unnecessary and harmful:

A circumcised boy has a HIGHER rate of complications and problems than an intact (not circumcised) boy. That's right - a boy whose natural penis was left alone has a lower risk of having something go wrong than a circumcised boy. I know it probably sounds foreign to you, because the information given by society and doctors in the US is so WRONG, but please consider everything said in this thread fully before subjecting your son to a painful, useless procedure which he can't give consent for. Ethically, medically, sexually, circumcision is BAD.
post #120 of 122
Congrats on your little one on the way

and here's to hoping for a little girl......
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