~Healing the Gut AUGUST MAMAS~

[Kundalini-Mama]

I'm so excited to start a new thread I feel like a celebrity

Including some past threads:

THE CHEAT SHEET http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?p=4893042

July: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ealing+the+gut
June: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ealing+the+gut
May: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ealing+the+gut
April: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ealing+the+gut
March: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ealing+the+gut
February: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...february+legal
January: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...9&page=1&pp=20

Dec 05: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...february+legal
Nov 05: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=364340
Oct 05: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=350068
Sept 05: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=336581
August 05: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ealing+the+gut

The original thread : http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ealing+the+gut (June 05)

[Kundalini-Mama]

My questions from the July thread:

*Being summer, should I decrease our intake of high vit CLO? We're presently taking 1T for me, and 1/2t for the boys.

*Cellfood? It looks interesting for my cancer treatment, thoughts?

*Jane, since our DS's are very similar in terms of healing, could you post what probiotics he is on right now? I've been neglectful of actual probiotics and just doing yogurt.

My thoughts:

*Jane, what is going on w/you and 'hellweek'? I was excited to read that your DS has been able to eat more fruits, but what is going on now?

*I definately feel like I'm healing. And I cheat quite a bit. I feel that the yeast or bad bacteria is dead in me and I'm just working on healing at this point. I have been eating illegials from time to time, which, come to think of it, is always just chevre. Or goat milk brie Since I don't have any more bad guys to feed, I've allowed myself some lactose, about once every 3 weeks or so. I've been on the diet since April 1st. I would like to purchase enzymes again, but w/all my cancer treatment stuff, we are just out of $$. I was taking massive amts of it too, and that definatly speed things along, I'm sure of it.

*Chiropractor care--We are firm believers and go every month. We started going to help DS1's sleep issues when he was 1 yr old. We had no success whatsoever until we started taking foods out (before I knew of SCD), here is my long thread on it on MDC, http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ad.php?t=97824

I have more thoughts, but too busy.

Hope you are well,
amy

[moonshine]

Subbing. Annikate, what were you trying to heal if not yeast? AmyD, same question. I don't think I have yeast, but so far I am not seeing huge improvements with SCD.

[Kundalini-Mama]

Leaky gut caused by yeast/bacteria. Now that I'm healing I'm not so bloated and gassy (except when I eat broccoli, for instance), and I feel that, in a couple years, I will be able to eat gluten again (NT style). I'm also not having any, what I called, gluten reactions, which is when I would have to run to the toilet to have an explosive, painful, diarrhea episode. Even though I was diligent about not eating gluten, it would still happen (same w/DS1 too, we'd be fighting over the one toilet in the house ).

[caedmyn]

reposting my last couple of posts on the July thread...

Originally Posted by EBG
Caedmyn, how is your candida protocol working for you? Are you getting better or still having die-off....

Is anybody getting better and healed besides Jane?

Well I'm about to give up.

Also, our budget is SO tight, that I won't be able to keep buying ANY supplements. We can't afford to have a normal diet. 40 dollars a week for groceries won't even get enough meat and eggs to feed 4 of us.

So I have to stop the SCD-candida-NT. it's not helping anyway. I guess I'll just have to live with it.

Sorry for complaining.... I guess I'm just having a bad morning.

I'm sorry things are rough for you right now. Hopefully your financial situation will improve soon.

Have you tried beet kvass? There was an excerpt in "Eat Fat Lose Fat" about someone with candida who didn't get any better with diet, etc, until she tried beet kvass. At least it would be cheap...

I'm not having much die-off at all. I feel like this diet is going to work for us, but I haven't actually seen improvements yet. I've decided to stick with the diet without cheating until Labor Day--it's allowed to cheat once a week on this diet, but I sort of went overboard with the cheating and binged. Last time I cheated we went out to eat for DH's BD and besides my meal I had about 8 cornbread muffins, 3 big bowls of ice cream, and a giant chocolate cookie If neither DD nor I are improving by Labor Day I'm going back to eating "normal" NT foods.


CHIROPRACTORS--anyone besides Pattyla tried chiropractic for their baby's sleep issues? DD woke up about 10 times last night. I have no idea why she is waking up so often. I've got to do something to get her sleeping better.



ENZYMES If I'm eating lacto-fermented foods at every meal, can I stop taking digestive enzymes, or is there not enough enzymes in the lacto-fermented stuff to make up for the digestive enzymes? The only foods I'm eating right now are fats, eggs, meats, and low-carb veggies.

[EBG]

I think so.... I suppose the taditional peoples don't take enzymes either. I think you could give it a try.
Thanks for remindig me about beet kvass, I forgot about it. I think I have one in my refrigerator...
I guess I'll go back to making beet kvass and saurkraut. Hoping to clear my acne. I don't know what's happening to me, hormones or what, but my eczema is horrible, I'm losing a ton of hair and my previously clear face looks like I'm 13. I stopped breasfeeding about a month ago and still have not had a period. Maybe the hormones are making me depressed. Oh and I'm gaining weight. All this without changing anything in the diet.
BM-s are still good, digestion great. So actually the diet at least helped this much.
But what am I going to do without my CLO? I can live without CO as we can still get butter and olive oil, but CO is way to expensive. But CLO has been our only good source of omega 3, A and D. Would battery eggs, grain-fed butter and commercial liver be OK? We can't afford grass-fed anything. I'm thinking it's still better than vegetable oils.

[Punchy Kaby]

perhaps it flairs up because you ARE dealing with the yeast. that is, as they die off, their toxins leak into your lymph system and into your milk. could you stick with it long enough to get over the die off?

have you tried evening primrose oil supplements to help with your dc's eczema?

I could stick with it, I just have to get over looking at DH's eczema. I guess I need to change my outlook and decide that I will be very strict for a month no matter what happens on his face. I have not tried EPO yet. I have been taking 2 tsps of CLO, eating butter from the farmers market and using CO as much as possible.

*Is there anything I can do for DS to help relieve his symptoms? I will get some baby probiotics. He is almost 8 months, too young for digestive enzymes?

*JaneS, I would be interested to read how your DS's eczema was healed, and then on his way to healing leaky gut.

I definately feel like I'm healing. And I cheat quite a bit. I feel that the yeast or bad bacteria is dead in me and I'm just working on healing at this point. I have been eating illegials from time to time, which, come to think of it, is always just chevre. Or goat milk brie Since I don't have any more bad guys to feed, I've allowed myself some lactose, about once every 3 weeks or so. I've been on the diet since April 1st. I would like to purchase enzymes again, but w/all my cancer treatment stuff, we are just out of $$. I was taking massive amts of it too, and that definatly speed things along, I'm sure of it.

Your journey with cancer must be challenging physically and mentally, thankfully your gut is getting somewhere. Where are you in your cancer treatments? At what point did you feel like the yeast/bacteria was no longer a problem?

*moonshine-what are you trying to heal with SCD?

*someone posted about a yahoo group for yeast, can you repost the link?

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by EBG

But what am I going to do without my CLO? I can live without CO as we can still get butter and olive oil, but CO is way to expensive. But CLO has been our only good source of omega 3, A and D. Would battery eggs, grain-fed butter and commercial liver be OK? We can't afford grass-fed anything. I'm thinking it's still better than vegetable oils.

This might still be too much, but the cheapest CO I found is at www.mountainroseherbs.com--$28 for a gallon, plus shipping which is around $7 for me.

I don't know if they have Costco in your area, but if they do and you have a membership or know someone who does, Kerrygold is supposed to be a brand of grass-fed butter (I don't think it is organic, so the price might be reasonable). Also, you might be able to find someone in your area who has a few chickens and will sell you eggs--I've seen some around here for $1 per dozen. Try www.craigslist.com and do a search for eggs. You could also try canned salmon if not too expensive (bumblebee has one that says it's wild caught), or maybe ground flax seed for omega 3's.

I do think commercial whole foods are preferable to vegetable oils and stuff--just do the best you can.

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by Nolansmum

*someone posted about a yahoo group for yeast, can you repost the link?

It's called candidasupport.

[Vaquitita]

subbing and a tmi poop question... i know someone has mentioned white specks and floating before, but i can't remember what they mean. can someone fill me in?

[flowmom]

Newbie

Hello mamas - sorry this is so long!!

I first learned about gut healing when I consulted an LC recommended by firefaery to address my breastmilk oversupply issues. My second baby was born 2.5 mo ago and, while I struggled with oversupply at first, it seems to be under control now - possibly because of the many things that I've done to fix it. I started an elimination diet about 7 weeks ago, eliminating dairy, gluten, rice, almonds, chocolate and oranges - this was based on my staple foods and craved foods. I found out that dd was reactive to dairy (rash all over body) and wheat (mucus in poop). So far soy looks OK but I am not planning to eat much soy because I have concerns about it.

I think of myself as being quite healthy and free of health problems but my LC thinks I have a leaky gut because:

1. I tend towards being constipated (go 1X per day but poops tend to be hard and I have an anal fissure)
2. my apparently leaky gut is allowing proteins to cross the gut barrier into my breastmilk - causing dd's reactions

Other possible symptoms of food sensitivity that I have are intermittent seborrheic dermatitis (scalp and behind ears) and dark circles under my eyes.

My main motivation to deal with this is to protect dd. Things I've been doing to address the gut issue:

1. taking digestive enzymes from Houston Neutraceuticals
2. taking Udo's Choice adult blend probiotics
3. eating a bit more coconut oil/milk
4. doing elimination diet to see if I have sensitivities (no obvious ones so far except that my oversupply has stopped - other symptoms are the same)

I am reading Nourishing Traditions and I like the idea of eating a diet that is naturally rich in enzymes and helpful bacteria. But I'm discouraged about not being able to eat dairy as it's such a great convenience food (especially yoghurt and cheese, my faves) and I crave it a lot in the first postpartum months. I'm enjoying eating more fish but not as much enjoying eating more meat/nuts - feel a bit heavy on my system in the quantities that I am eating. I am eating a lot - feel very hungry due to lactation hormones and I am nursing both of my kiddos right now. Spending a lot more time on food prep has been hard with 2 small ones and our diet has been more expensive. A simple lunch of cheese on sprouted bread is only a distant memory .

Ds has been doing all this along with me but since he didn't seem to be reacting to foods much I have allowed him to reintroduce most of the foods back into his diet. He probably has gut damage due to the really bad oversupply problems that I had with him (and possible food sensitivities). He was also very slow to start solids, very picky eater, and has low ferritin (up to 9 from 7). He is having lots of problems with pee accidents and peeing in bed but we never got rid of that with the diet. We are chronically concerned about his food intake and have resorted to feeding him Cheddar Bunnies and rice crackers (when not on the diet) just to get food into him to avoid low blood sugar meltdowns, etc. Much of the toddler feeding ideas don't work with him as he generally won't eat anything mushy or pureed so it's hard to "hide" foods in his diet.

I'm not sure where to take it from here. More emphasis on diet - NT, SCD (heard of it but don't know much), eliminate more potential allergens? I am not crazy about dietary changes - it took me over two years to get to the point where I was willing to try an elimination diet. More supplements? LC recommends "GI Revive" and yeast cures and more potent probiotics. Also she wants me to take the enzymes between meals as well as during meals - anyone understand why?

: Suggestions?

[JaneS]

Caedmyn,

The once a week cheat makes no sense to me based on my experience? Is that the candida support diet?

Originally Posted by Abi's Mom

After my daughter turned a year old, she started drinking cow's milk. She had been eating yogurt and cheese, and cottage cheese for a while. She started getting painful, burning diaper rashes. I was told it could be diet related. I have allergies, just none to food. Abigail hasn't had any milk in about two or more weeks, she just one day refused to drink it, but she's continued to get diaper rashes on and off, about once to twice a week. then I realized that was about how often I was feeding her 4 oz of Activia yogurt. Could she be allergic to the yogurt? ACtivia has 17 grams of sugar in it, could the problem be the sugar?

Abi's Mom,

Yes, both the sugar and the pastuerized dairy could be culprit. The only way to test dairy is to take it completely out for several weeks to a month and then challenge it again. Personally I feel pasteurized dairy is the main reason why so main people are allergic. The heat treatment changes the proteins so that they are harder to digest and also kills beneficial bacteria and enzymes that further help. I highly recommend trying raw milk. I hear all the time from people IRL in my milk group that they couldn't handle pasteurized stuff and do great on raw. There was a post several days ago I made with links on raw milk in Nutrition forum maybe?

[EBG]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

This might still be too much, but the cheapest CO I found is at www.mountainroseherbs.com--$28 for a gallon, plus shipping which is around $7 for me.

I don't know if they have Costco in your area, but if they do and you have a membership or know someone who does, Kerrygold is supposed to be a brand of grass-fed butter (I don't think it is organic, so the price might be reasonable). Also, you might be able to find someone in your area who has a few chickens and will sell you eggs--I've seen some around here for $1 per dozen. Try www.craigslist.com and do a search for eggs. You could also try canned salmon if not too expensive (bumblebee has one that says it's wild caught), or maybe ground flax seed for omega 3's.

I do think commercial whole foods are preferable to vegetable oils and stuff--just do the best you can.

Thanks for the ideas! I can't use credit cards for a while so can't order online... erverything is twice as much in the HFS...
Our Costco doesn't carry Kerrygold, Safeway does but my DH won't spend 2.99 on a half pound stick when you can get 1lb regular butter for less. But I'll try craigslist and see if I can get cheap free-range eggs.

[Annikate]

Originally Posted by moonshine
Subbing. Annikate, what were you trying to heal if not yeast?

ACtually, I got here by accident while trying to figure out what was wrong w/dd. I just KNEW it had to be something in my diet. She had classic allergy symptoms: Dark circles under her eyes, red, puffy eyes, watery eyes, red bumps underneath the eyes, not to mention her reflux and sleep issues.

When I learned about leaky gut I thought okay, that makes sense so I started the SCD (finally, after different types of elimination diets which I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND to anyone.)

I never thought *I* had issues but the more I learned, the more I realized that being chronically constipated, burping almost ALL day long EVERY day, being bloated and gassy and having the noises from my stomach drown out nearby conversationsis is NOT normal. I thought it was because I had lived w/it all of my life really.

Funny how this process has made me healthier in so many ways. I no longer take an antidepressant and am convinced that my depression/anxiety stemmed from nutritional deficits due to malabsorption.

[Annikate]

Originally Posted by AmyD
*Cellfood? It looks interesting for my cancer treatment, thoughts?

It does look interesting but I'm not convinced. I do like the fact that it contains amino acids. They are wonderful things. (I take them during PMS & it helps A LOT.)

I have a girlfriend who's a research scientist (microbiology), I'll email her and ask her opinion.

Oh, and I saw it in Whole Foods today. It was $29.99 I think.

[Gale Force]

:

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Nolansmum

There are many things you mention here that are relevant for DS and me.
*Ds and I had antibiotics at his birth, so I know that he didn't start out having the best gut flora. What is the best way to get a broad spectrum of flora in there, without kidnapping an Amish child? I am eating SCD 24 hr yogurt but am not currently giving him anything.

*I know we are fighting yeast, but I feel like whenever I try to step up yeast fighting measures (tried Candex, too harsh made eczema flair, I think) now am starting with V-gest (.5 capsule with meals) his eczema flairs again. I cannot tell what the eczema flairup is from. I honestly do not think I have the will power to start SCD all over and stay on the intro (for weeks?) and go to the bare minimum (not even any suppliments) I am not convinced that his eczema is all diet based anyway.

*does fermenting foods bring about different strains of bacteria than the 24 hr yogurt has to offer?

*If I heal my gut (who knows how long that will take) will he get good bacteria from my breastmilk? Will it be enough to counteract the poor start?

* How did you go about healing your DS's eczema?


I feel very discouraged, I have been on SCD for about 6 weeks and although I feel like my yeast is getting a little better on the diet DS's eczema keeps flaring up. I need more yogurt ( I currently have a few tablespoons a day) and probiotics to help with the yeast as well as some yeast fighters but they all seem to bother DS (eczema flare ups)

First of all, I must dispell rumors spread by Miss I think I'm a Celebrity AmyD ...

I'm NOT planning a kidnapping, I just want to buy their "human probiotics" in natural form!

laughup

(Those are DS's goodnight smilies he clicked on himself.)

The eczema flares could be histamine reactions from the yeast toxins? When they are killed, they release one final dying breath as I understand it. Makes it hard to figure out what's what though I know.

DS's eczema was also worsened with cow dairy (he can do goat) but the regime of quercitin, cod liver oil, and evening primrose oil works well. Sometimes you need to go quite high with EPO. I've heard of adults taking 10 grams in order to see any effect. Check out 'The Eczema Tribe' thread.

Eczema might not be all diet but it's definately deficiences in gut flora and the right fatty acids. This has been shown over and over again in studies.

Yes fermented foods do have diff. probiotics. Cabbage has L. plantarum for ex.

I don't know re: best way to get broad spectrum of flora.
That is truly the Million Dollar Question.

We've had some sucess with L. Reuteri in the past, so that's one we are culturing. Plus if you read about in 'The Power of Probiotics' thread, it's got an interesting background (human origin was a bf'ing mama in Peru.)

I've decided to go with Garden of Life Primal Defense powder b/c of personal stories from my WAPF chapter leader who is a friend and a nutritional consultant who uses it personally and professionally with very good success. And reading "Patient Heal Thyself".

And then the 3rd one I just got for DS is Mt. Capra Probiotics Plus b/c it's grown on goat milk. My new strategy is to just overdose him (starting slowly of course) on probiotics in addition to his yogurt and see what happens. That is... until first week of Sept and appt. with new dr. to review the CDSA we just did this week. We'll see what other things he has to suggest.

Keep breastfeeding as long as possible.
Even with all the problems, and my gut still leaking, DS's digestion was *way* better off (raw fruits and rice and rice milk were mainstays of diet) when he was still nursing. I was a dolt to wean at 26 months! I wish I could turn clock back a year and know what I know now.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Nolansmum

I don't feel like anything is a 'safe' food right now. It makes me want to give up. I know this sounds horrible but if I gave DS formula at least he would be having the same thing every meal.

I remember feeling the exact same way! And yet when I weaned it was ... and still is .... MUCH MUCH WORSE.

[bamamom]

subbing...i need to learn. We , especially my kids...have gut issues.

anybody know of probiotics or acidophilus type stuff that is completely dairy free?? i would love live enzymes to give them.''''

[bamamom]

forgot to sub