~Healing the Gut AUGUST MAMAS~ - Page 2

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Cullens_Girl

Hi everyone - new to the thread...and IBS. I think I have just about every symptom - but I know that it's "rule-out" thing... I'm just wondering how long it will take them to *rule-out* everything... and also other than the IBS dietary changes I've read about online - do you have any tips?

I'm of the mind right now that if you try digestive enzymes and probiotics and see improvement, then you have your answer. Depending on symptoms of course. If you have blood, then see a dr. If you have gas, bloating, cramping, diarrhea/constipation, then you aren't digesting your food and have gut flora problems ... then it seems pure and simple to me. But mainstream doctors don't see it that way and don't know what to do about it other that treat symptoms and not causes.

However, if it's any chance it could be celiac disease, it worth getting a blood test for that.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by bamamom

subbing...i need to learn. We , especially my kids...have gut issues.

anybody know of probiotics or acidophilus type stuff that is completely dairy free?? i would love live enzymes to give them.''''

Off the top of my head...

Natren.

Kirkman Labs.

Garden of Life Primal Defense Powder.

For enzyme info www.enzymestuff.com

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by AmyD

Quick question,

Presently, I am taking 1T high vit CLO, and my boys are both taking 1/2t each. With it being summer, should we decrease our levels?

Thanks
Amy

I don't believe so... see http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...fications.html

Reducing it for summer is a Mercola thing and he improperly uses high doses of Vit. D without correct ratio of Vit. A to counter toxic effects. (1:10)

I never heard of native diets avoiding D for certain times and they were probably out in the sun way more right? Might be worth asking in Traditional Foods forum. Copy my post there too if you want.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by sierratahoe

Back to reality: Ok, now what do I do?? What kind of a doc should I be looking for? I simply cannot afford to have an appointment with every gut doc in town hoping against hope for one who has his/her head out of his/her arse and has heard of leaky gut or anything else slightly alternative. Nor can I afford to visit with every 'naturopathic' nutcase who just wants to rinse me out or give me a rubdown or stick needles in me (no offense to any who might find acupuncture helpful for their gut; I just doubt a session or two is going to heal me, nor is a massage or two). Should I aim for calling every D.O. in town and ask if they have experience with healing guts? Or just scrap getting help and focus on helping myself? What about tests? Could it be that I possibly actually don't need any testing and just need to experiment with what works for me?

Now for the million dollar question: I know this is called healing the gut, but, will there ever be a day when I don't have to fear certain foods? Will there ever be a day I can eat trigger foods without paying the price? Is it truly possible to make this all better and move beyond it, looking back at the experience and laughing nervously?

This is a HOOT! You are totally right!!

This is why I think that regardless of the steep learning curve we're putting y'all on here, it is essential. Because not every practitioner who hangs a shingle knows what they are doing. And even if they do, not not everyone knows everything. There are significant things that they may miss.

Yes, it will happen. I'm laughing nervously myself right now in fact... and I want as many of you to be able to join me as possible. Please don't make me post another 4,000 times for it though okay? :

Maybe that Cheat Sheet needs Crib Notes. :

1. Digestive enzymes with meals.
2. Enzymes between meals, esp. proteases and cellulases.
3. Yogurt/kefir/fermented foods/probiotics.
4. Cut out foods you determine that you cannot digest.
5. Add nutrient dense superfoods and good quality supplements.
6. Educate yourself on what is really a healthy diet... nutrient deficiencies can in themselves lead to many digestive issues.
7. If all the above doesn't work, investigate alternatives: anti fungals/bacterials, homeopathy, etc.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by saskiasmom

Not really, but its hard to tell. I actually allowed myself forbidden food on thursday and friday b/c I was so pissed and just didnt care, and didnt feel bad, I just get a big belly. Ive actually been more depressed in the past two days than in the last week. I felt like I was coming along well in mourning and moving on and then this, and it brings it all back again. "If only..". So the symptoms I have are too hard to separate from the loss, because when I read that yesterday about taking a month, suddenly I felt great. My tongue looks better, so Im using that as a guide too. I dont know. Thanks for responding. Ironically (is it irony?) my dh is an md, and he isnt too worried about this, he says to have faith in my immune system. I wish I could and go get a bran muffin for breakfast instead of eggs eggs and more eggs (hurl). So what have you done to heal it in the past?

Actually you reminded me... I had a m/c right before becoming pg with DS. And the circumstances of it led to a lot of anger and depression. Will spare you details, but I will say you are very lucky you are here now.

RE: DH the MD
Except 70% of immune system is in gut. And if you aren't digesting that bran muffin, you aren't absorbing the nutrients. And if you don't absorb the nutrients, your body is suffering. Your immune system runs on vitamin/minerals! And if the undigested food is fermenting to excess and producing toxins (see published studies on abnormal gut fermentation) and alcohol, your immune system is even worse off.

[JaneS]

Thank you EricaZ for that Trent Nichols book rec, I've ordered it from inter library loan!

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by saskiasmom

I have never had food allergies (knock wood) or digestion problems or immunity problems, so otherwise ont think I need them, but I read that a certain kind help break the shell of the yeasts in the gut to then make the AF's work better. How do these enzymes even make it to the gut? How do they make it through the stomach and pancreatic acid? Do I believe this b/c I want to or has anyone had experience? That FAQ sheet also mentions that it takes about a month for every year you've had it to get rid of. Is this one of the things JaneS you dont believe?

Anyway, I just really want personal help. How do I wade through all the *theories* and choose a protocal that I can have faith in? Why dont I just take lamisil with all the other stuff and knock this sh** out? Ugh. Im about ready to go to pennsylvania with you!

Thanks
jess

Re: Enzymes between meals
See the Yeast/Bacteria link at www.enzymestuff.com
Also Dr. Devin Houston of Houston Nutraceuticals is available to anyone for phone consult on enzymes. He is the real deal, he worked at Edward Howell's co. (literally the inventor of enzyme research).

Plant based enzymes work both in stomach acid and also neutral ph of small intestines. They definitely get thru. Pancreatic or animal based enzymes only work in neutral ph btw.

Re: Knocking this Sh** Out!
I hear you! But overwhelming your immune system in that way is not good either. Because you need the good bacteria to grow again and occupy the space you are making.

Re: A month of Healing for every year of Suffering
Yeah, actually that is about right for me. I've had gut problems for 10 years and really bad right before pg (multiple abx really killed me). The enzymes may have speeded it up just a tad.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by AmyD

:

But seriously, there is a community of people in my neighborhood. The Twelve Tribes. All healthy, organic, WAP people, yk? No vaxes and such. A good friend of mine was a member for some time and we talked about the autism connection. They have tribes all over the world and talk frequently and such and really know the general ongoings w/other members worldwide. She knows of 2 autistic cases. TWO.

So maybe I could recruit some of them for a fecal donation, I'm sure they would help me out, we are on friendly terms and all, and then Jane and I wouldn't have to do that whole kidnapping thing....

NO kidnapping!

Will pay handsomely for never vaxed, never abx, raised on bf'ing/raw milk poop!

Yes there is a 12 Tribes group in Plymouth, MA too.... hmmm....

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Emilie

I am sure ds hasencopresis....
I am so sad for him,.... I am addressing this is a whole new way ASAP.
Thanks so much...
Emilie

See this link http://www.enzymestuff.com/rtencopresis.htm

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Annikate

RE: Yeast

For those of you who are battling yeast, here's a very interesting link.
Read on the front page under "About Me" and at the bottom is a picture of what it can look like in the stool.

I'm posting this because I swear dd2 has had these before and I just thought they were undigested grapes. ( I cut them into tiny little pieces for her since she only has a few teeth.)

YIKES! Looks like we're dealing w/this form of yeast.

Here's the link:
http://www.sashasrecovery.com/about_me.html

That reminds me of something else that was recommended in something I read as "fun" to do with poop testing. Put in strainer and flush water over to wash it and see what is left. :

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Annikate

She eats at least 1/2 c. a day. Then again, she wasn't eating it EVERY day right before the test. I was supposed to have stopped it all together before testing but didn't want to put her through another bout of painful constipation (which is what would have happened.)

Have you held this amount steady or are gradually upping it? You may want to increase if it doesn't cause her side effects.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by LovinLiviLou

1)Just looking at myself and reading about symptoms, etc, I would not tend to say I have a leaky gut. But if dd has food intolerances and is exclusively bf, does that mean that I obviously do?
2)What do I need to be doing right now while she is still exclusively breastfed? I know to not give her (or me) abx, no vaccines, and keep exclusively breastfeeding, but what beyond that? It seems to me that a probiotic for me is a good idea. What about directly for the baby? My main goal is to fix this problem (if its fixable) as soon as possible for the baby’s sake.
3)I’ve read a lot about the enzymes, and that seems promising, but a little daunting. Should I do some of these (and are they even passed through bm?) or just eat more raw foods? If so, what is a good starter enzyme treatment?

TIA!

I tend to think yes, that generally means you have a problem. After all their gut flora and food is all from you and nature intended it to work. The following factors are only what I can think of off top of my head right now that damage gut flora:

1. Abx for you or babe before, during, after birth and pregnancy.
2. GBS/Yeast infection/digestive problem history.
3. Steriods, bcp's
4. Mercury fillings
5. Prophylactic abx as teenager for acne.
6. Supplementary formula
7. The Hep B shot given right after birth especially, and all vaccines are suspect.
8. Conventional meats/dairy contain antibiotics too.
9. Chlorine (pools esp.)
10. Exposure to chemicals/pesticides.

Start her on bifidus. For some reason her gut flora is off and possible her gut didn't seal up. Have you read "just one bottle" article in Cheat Sheet?

Raw foods do not have the right mix of enzymes for all food groups: proteins, fats, carbs. Digestive enzymes are much better if you are having trouble. Yes, a lot do make it thru to bloodstream, go carefully with a BF babe. That is why probiotics should be first thing you try IMO.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Pattyla

Anyone have a vote on a fruit to try? I'm so sick of no fruit.

So far watermellon was a bad choice.

As was either cherries or rasberries (not sure which one).

The bananas actually didn't seem to be bad but then that was a really hard day so perhaps the fruit contributed and I missed it.

Of course even w/o fruit we are having a very 2 year old time of it lately so who knows if I'll even be able to tell a reaction from a normal day. :

I think I have the menu planned for next week. Wish me luck.

Bananas and cooked pears (pureed when things are really bad) are what I consistently fall back on for DS as safe and gets him improving. The cherries and raspberries have a lot of fiber to digest. Any raw fruits like watermelon is a forgettaboutit right now.

How are you doing this week?

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by bigknitwit

Can I join the conversation here? I've been hesitant to join because the 26 pages of reading in this thread is a little daunting. Forgive me if this has allready been covered many times.

I am frustrated, angry, and worried all at the same time for my oldest ds. He is chronically constipated. We have been treating him with miralax for a few months, and yet I don't feel like the situation has gotten much better. I'm worried about taking him off the Miralax, as his ped-gastro doctor assures us he must stay on it or he will regress. His rectum is somewhat stretched, and so the doctor says that once it returns to normal shape, he will be ready to be taken off the laxative. He has bowel movements daily, but they are more indicative of a blockage/impaction (which is what he had to begin with). He has had 4 abdominal x-rays and while I'd like to get another one to see what's going on in there, I'm hesitant to do so. Too much x-raying is not good either...

Looking back, his constipation started around the time he was no longer getting milk while nursing (I was pregnant and we tandem nursed later). Before that we had no issues. I hate giving him the Miralax. I'm considering giving him a magnesium supplement instead, but too much magnesium has it's consequences too, doesn't it? I am truly at a loss as to what to do next, and it's literally keeping me awake at night (that's why I'm up right now).

Welcome!

Magnesium is just flushed out if the body doesn't need it. Ditto high doses of vitamin C. I would trust them 100x more than Miralax which even the manufacturer says shouldn't be taken long term. Who knows that that does to the gut or whether it absorbs nutrients or what. Makes me so irritated that's all doctors have to offer!!!!

P.S. cod liver and flax seed oil is also very good for constipation. Give 1/2 - 1 tsp. cod liver for vitamins and extra flax on top of that.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by AmyD

*Jane, since our DS's are very similar in terms of healing, could you post what probiotics he is on right now? I've been neglectful of actual probiotics and just doing yogurt.

Posted above. I admit I was a bit brain dead about adding different probiotics too. And we have the dairy issue. (Why I'm culturing Reuteri in yogurt to lessen that possible effect... it might be dairy free but grown on dairy, like Culturelle, ykwim?)

Obviously he never got a good laying down of initial gut flora. Totally diff. situation than an adult who is following SCD w/ yogurt only who still has remnants of an intact gut flora left? At least that's my current theory.

Originally Posted by AmyD

*Jane, what is going on w/you and 'hellweek'? I was excited to read that your DS has been able to eat more fruits, but what is going on now?

He has been taken off enzymes and probiotics for complete CDSA. He totally regressed and is sleeping like crap. And the daytime behavior, OY! Ever hear of ODD, Opposition Defiance Disorder? Well welcome to my house, my normally very polite child is a juvenile deliquent. And people think I'm crazy when I see gut damaged children all around me just by their behavior... or to think I have indeed cheated autism by not vaxing him and keeping him on limited diet. Harumph!

Back to CDSA test. So stupid me says to the dr., "Well he cannot handle a lot of fruit, he gets loose stool almost immediately." (This CDSA you do a purge before several days of testing...) So I upped the fruit to get his solid stool to go mush and clean him out.

Cool thing is that he only had real mush for 2 days. Once I stopped extra fruit it started firming up again.

So I feel less badly today I did this to him. We really thought it would be beneficial to see what his body was actually digesting on its own and check pancreatic function.

I really hope he doesn't wake up 3x tonight now that he's back on enzymes. DARN it, forgot his extra vit. C. Took that out too for testing.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

DD woke up about 10 times last night. I have no idea why she is waking up so often. I've got to do something to get her sleeping better.

UGH, I feel bad for complaining about 3 (and DH is helping).

Have you tried high doses of vitamin C to neutralize toxins? I keep meaning to post that link to discussion w/ MT in N/I 101 thread.

Is she eating a lot of fruit?

Originally Posted by caedmyn

ENZYMES If I'm eating lacto-fermented foods at every meal, can I stop taking digestive enzymes, or is there not enough enzymes in the lacto-fermented stuff to make up for the digestive enzymes? The only foods I'm eating right now are fats, eggs, meats, and low-carb veggies.

There aren't as much lipases and proteases in lacto fermented foods as in capsules. Might be important for the proteins as well. I know DS has a protein eating bad gut bug for ex.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by EBG

I think so.... I suppose the taditional peoples don't take enzymes either. I think you could give it a try.
Thanks for remindig me about beet kvass, I forgot about it. I think I have one in my refrigerator...
I guess I'll go back to making beet kvass and saurkraut. Hoping to clear my acne. I don't know what's happening to me, hormones or what, but my eczema is horrible, I'm losing a ton of hair and my previously clear face looks like I'm 13. I stopped breasfeeding about a month ago and still have not had a period. Maybe the hormones are making me depressed. Oh and I'm gaining weight. All this without changing anything in the diet.

Also traditional people probably had rockin' gut flora though. All of them had several forms of fermented raw foods in their daily diets.

Sounds like thyroid problems.

[Punchy Kaby]

Thank you Jane for your reply to my long post

Sometimes a woman needs a little encouragement to know I am heading in the right direction. I will be reading on the probiotics thread as well as the eczema thread. The amount of information is overwhelming, especially when we are acting as our own doctor.

Breastfeeding

I remember feeling the exact same way! And yet when I weaned it was ... and still is .... MUCH MUCH WORSE.

I needed to hear this. My instinct is to breastfeed him until he self weans.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Ksenia

Hello mamas - sorry this is so long!!

I first learned about gut healing when I consulted an LC recommended by firefaery to address my breastmilk oversupply issues. My second baby was born 2.5 mo ago and, while I struggled with oversupply at first, it seems to be under control now - possibly because of the many things that I've done to fix it. I started an elimination diet about 7 weeks ago, eliminating dairy, gluten, rice, almonds, chocolate and oranges - this was based on my staple foods and craved foods. I found out that dd was reactive to dairy (rash all over body) and wheat (mucus in poop). So far soy looks OK but I am not planning to eat much soy because I have concerns about it.

I think of myself as being quite healthy and free of health problems but my LC thinks I have a leaky gut because:

1. I tend towards being constipated (go 1X per day but poops tend to be hard and I have an anal fissure)
2. my apparently leaky gut is allowing proteins to cross the gut barrier into my breastmilk - causing dd's reactions

Other possible symptoms of food sensitivity that I have are intermittent seborrheic dermatitis (scalp and behind ears) and dark circles under my eyes.

My main motivation to deal with this is to protect dd. Things I've been doing to address the gut issue:

1. taking digestive enzymes from Houston Neutraceuticals
2. taking Udo's Choice adult blend probiotics
3. eating a bit more coconut oil/milk
4. doing elimination diet to see if I have sensitivities (no obvious ones so far except that my oversupply has stopped - other symptoms are the same)

I am reading Nourishing Traditions and I like the idea of eating a diet that is naturally rich in enzymes and helpful bacteria. But I'm discouraged about not being able to eat dairy as it's such a great convenience food (especially yoghurt and cheese, my faves) and I crave it a lot in the first postpartum months. I'm enjoying eating more fish but not as much enjoying eating more meat/nuts - feel a bit heavy on my system in the quantities that I am eating. I am eating a lot - feel very hungry due to lactation hormones and I am nursing both of my kiddos right now. Spending a lot more time on food prep has been hard with 2 small ones and our diet has been more expensive. A simple lunch of cheese on sprouted bread is only a distant memory .

Ds has been doing all this along with me but since he didn't seem to be reacting to foods much I have allowed him to reintroduce most of the foods back into his diet. He probably has gut damage due to the really bad oversupply problems that I had with him (and possible food sensitivities). He was also very slow to start solids, very picky eater, and has low ferritin (up to 9 from 7). He is having lots of problems with pee accidents and peeing in bed but we never got rid of that with the diet. We are chronically concerned about his food intake and have resorted to feeding him Cheddar Bunnies and rice crackers (when not on the diet) just to get food into him to avoid low blood sugar meltdowns, etc. Much of the toddler feeding ideas don't work with him as he generally won't eat anything mushy or pureed so it's hard to "hide" foods in his diet.

I'm not sure where to take it from here. More emphasis on diet - NT, SCD (heard of it but don't know much), eliminate more potential allergens? I am not crazy about dietary changes - it took me over two years to get to the point where I was willing to try an elimination diet. More supplements? LC recommends "GI Revive" and yeast cures and more potent probiotics. Also she wants me to take the enzymes between meals as well as during meals - anyone understand why?

: Suggestions?

Hello!

What about giving babe bifidus to help seal up her gut? Perhaps she will tolerate foods in your milk better.

Definately take lots more probiotics. Constipation is just as much an intestinal flora red flag as diarrhea. Also magnesium is great for constipation.

GI Revive is an intesting product. I don't know much about all of the herbs, but Slippery Elm is *excellent* for chronic constipation, you could also try that on your own.

You could try goat's milk and/or raw milk. Both are significantly different in structure and easier to digest than conventional pasteurized. Soy does have issues, including inhibition of digestive enzymes, not something you exactly want right now.

Dark circles can also be nutrient deficiencies too. Which gut problems often help create.

See Yeast/Bacteria link here re: taking enzymes between meals
www.enzymestuff.com

That's hard re: your DS (and he is sooo cute too!)
Not sure what to say except make sure to get some probiotics into him and see if there are any changes on that front. Mine has always liked to chew capsules but perhaps he's just weird.

Pee accidents usually mean yeast problems from what I've read in ASD community. Do you want to post a sample diet for your DS and we can try to brainstorm for further help?

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Annikate

I never thought *I* had issues but the more I learned, the more I realized that being chronically constipated, burping almost ALL day long EVERY day, being bloated and gassy and having the noises from my stomach drown out nearby conversationsis is NOT normal. I thought it was because I had lived w/it all of my life really.

That is one thing I'd like to get across to everyone: most people really have no idea what normal digestion feels like. They just get used to feeling chronically uncomfortable.