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About helping "neophytes" - Page 9

post #161 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by trmpetplaya
Pro-circ is definitely NOT okay for sure! But we can correct people without accusing them (or even seeming to accuse them) of being blatantly pro-circumcision.
Exactly (and I agree with Karen's post too). However, it has been the case many times that someone has pointed out pro-circ phrasing or wording and the person - not being fully informed - has had a volatile reaction. There doesn't seem to be a way anti-intact posts can be addressed if the person thinks they're anti-circ. It's similar to the racism issue - if someone uses subtle racist language without knowing, their ignorance doesn't mean what they said isn't racist ... and they'll protest when it's pointed out (no matter how gently they're informed).
post #162 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericswifey27
I'm not European

I didn't say everyone.
post #163 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyMarmalade
Exactly (and I agree with Karen's post too). However, it has been the case many times that someone has pointed out pro-circ phrasing or wording and the person - not being fully informed - has had a volatile reaction. There doesn't seem to be a way anti-intact posts can be addressed if the person thinks they're anti-circ. It's similar to the racism issue - if someone uses subtle racist language without knowing, their ignorance doesn't mean what they said isn't racist ... and they'll protest when it's pointed out (no matter how gently they're informed).
If they protest, we're not responsible for that. We're not responsible for anyone's reaction, just our posts. If a person posts in a genuinely sincere manner, addressing the incorrect reasoning and avoiding getting into the "you're pro circ and don't you know the title of this forum...." then you have to have a clear conscious that you have helped the person to the best of your ability. I'd suggest letting it go if they insisted on their stand and reporting the post to me to evaluate rather than getting into it with the poster.

Also, explaining how you perceived their postings could help them to understand. Instead of saying something like "You just want to justify circing your child" you could say something like "It seems to me that you are still trying to defend circ." The first sentence accuses the person and makes assumptions about where they are in their thought process. The second makes an observation that you are willing to own (by saying "It seems to ME"). The second sentence gives the person a chance to see how they are being perceived by another and to reflect on that - if they are inclined. It takes a while to open the door and shed light on what a horror circ really is when you have been so culturally indoctrinated to accept it as the necessary normal thing to do.
post #164 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by trmpetplaya
The reason I don't report things to mods (I don't think I ever have - and I think I'd remember something like that) is because I'm never quite sure WHEN I should. Sometimes I think something is off kilter and so I just answer even though maybe it should be reported. I always figure that someone else will report it if it really needs to be reported. Maybe someone can help me with this...
I have only reported stuff here, and then it was only when it got to the "well if you don't know how to use your penis to pleasure a woman, it's your fault, not the circ" type stuff, or blatant name calling directed at one person, as opposed to "all you crazy non-circers" type stuff. I always figure by the time I'm fed up, so are others, and I'm probably not the only one to cllick the little !. On other forums, stuff always seems to disappear too fast. I love the juicy stuff too. I need a life, apparently.
post #165 of 179
dur, double post.
post #166 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by trmpetplaya
And I was also envisioning it as being like the abuse forum... not a set number of posts or anything, but PMing to become part of. I dunno Just my thoughts about that.



Yes, like that. Perhaps with an X number of posts needed to join.

~Nay
post #167 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A
Interesting point. It just struck me how many of you who are saying, "tone down the attitude" (or similar) are European. For you, it's academic, as if I were fighting FGM in Africa. Of course I would also tell fellow intactivists to get less emotional, if it weren't all around me, every day, IRL.
Yes, which is why I thought it important to mention. And why it's equally important (at least for me) to learn all I can about this unique culture of RIC in the USA and try to transport myself into that environment before I post.

Conversely, is there some benefit, do you think, in Americans looking beyond their shores to the example offered by the wide world beyond?

Christopher
post #168 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Islay
Yes, which is why I thought it important to mention. And why it's equally important (at least for me) to learn all I can about this unique culture of RIC in the USA and try to transport myself into that environment before I post.

Conversely, is there some benefit, do you think, in Americans looking beyond their shores to the example offered by the wide world beyond?

Christopher
Absolutely! It really helps to know that other developed countries do NOT view the intact penis in the same negative light that the U.S. does. I value our European posters.
post #169 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by njeb
Absolutely! It really helps to know that other developed countries do NOT view the intact penis in the same negative light that the U.S. does. I value our European posters.
As my grown-up son would still say: "Cool!"

Christopher
post #170 of 179
Quote:
Christopher: Conversely, is there some benefit, do you think, in Americans looking beyond their shores to the example offered by the wide world beyond?

I hate to point this out, because I am an American, however I (& the rest of the world I think) perceive Americans to be too arrogant and self-righteous to consider other "examples" worldwide... I really doubt that they would care about non-American customs & habits. But I never fail to mention them none-the-less.
post #171 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by kldliam
I hate to point this out, because I am an American, however I (& the rest of the world I think) perceive Americans to be too arrogant and self-righteous to consider other "examples" worldwide... I really doubt that they would care about non-American customs & habits. But I never fail to mention them none-the-less.
So I've noticed - and good for you.

I have to agree that, by and large, the world does view Americans this way. Americans have a certain swagger about them which is sometimes interpreted as arrogance; but the few I've met face to face have been a pleasure to meet and get to know. And online I've met many more!

Perhaps this insularity is one of the reasons why RIC persists beyond the debunking of myths.

Christopher
post #172 of 179
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kldliam
I hate to point this out, because I am an American, however I (& the rest of the world I think) perceive Americans to be too arrogant and self-righteous to consider other "examples" worldwide... I really doubt that they would care about non-American customs & habits. But I never fail to mention them none-the-less.
I perceive most Americans to be exactly the same way (as an American.... though I don't perceive myself to be that way ). The idea that the way WE do it is better because WE'RE Americans :

Quote:
Originally Posted by dnr3301
I have only reported stuff here, and then it was only when it got to the "well if you don't know how to use your penis to pleasure a woman, it's your fault, not the circ" type stuff, or blatant name calling directed at one person, as opposed to "all you crazy non-circers" type stuff. I always figure by the time I'm fed up, so are others, and I'm probably not the only one to cllick the little !. On other forums, stuff always seems to disappear too fast. I love the juicy stuff too. I need a life, apparently.
Wow.... I must've missed those posts! Maybe not the name-calling, but the other Yeah... maybe I need a life too. I live entirely in the world of dd, books, and internet (with some dh time too ). At least I have no internet during the day right now. Then I'd REALLY have no life!

PuppyFluffer - I totally agree about the "me statements." Maybe that's what it all boils down to... since it is so hard to tell over the internet what someone's intent is... that could very well solve most of the problem (which I think is misunderstandings). Gosh, you're an awesome mod You do a wonderful job with this forum!

love and peace.
post #173 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by trmpetplaya
Gosh, you're an awesome mod You do a wonderful job with this forum!
I was thinking the exact same thing.

~Nay
post #174 of 179
Thanks for the applause. The topic is really dear to me and the education of people is really important to me me. It is a fine balance between sharing info and giving attitude. As I've said many times before, being passionate about something does not absolve you of the obligation to be polite about how you speak.

And the previous point of giving people time is really important too. When something is so culturally ingrained, you can't erase that in a day. By giving people facts step by step, and having many of us say the same things in various different ways, we can begin to show truth on a subject that someone may have thought that they knew all they needed to know.

As for reported posts, I do get them and I really appreciate them! I can't read every post every day and still have a life. Most often the posts that get reported to me have religous discussion, unnecessary sexual content, troll accusations or just snarky stuff. It's not common that I disagree with a post report, most of the time you folks are right on and I appreciate the help.

Now the dial up thing! Boy am I frustrated. I live 4 miles from a university town and cannot get cable or dsl out here. I'm just a little bit too far from what ever bit of equipment the phone company needs to hook me up to. I call and request dsl service freqeuntly just to bug them but it hasn't happened yet. So, when you guys go all snarky on a suspected troll and I have to remove posts and PM members as to why I removed their posts and issue alerts and such, you can eat up hours of my night on just one thread...so have some sympathy for me and be nice please!

Again, I appreciate all this disucssion!
post #175 of 179
Karen, I concur wholeheartedly with Trumpet and ~nay. You even have the ability to reprimand us in the nicest possible way!

Yes, awareness and integrity in our posts is the key.

For your sake, I do hope you get a broadband service very soon. Not only is it fast but much better value for money. If things keep dragging on, you could investigate satellite broadband. However, it's still evolving and either uploading or downloading (can't remember which) is currently as slow as dialup!

Best of luck!

Christopher
post #176 of 179
Thank you for the time and effort devoted to this forum Karen, it really is very much appreciated!

A little OT with regards to broadband: do you have anyone in America offering that for free yet? A little earlier this year someone did that here in Britain and it turned the market totally upside down.

And Chris, it is uploading when someone downloads something from you and downloading when you let them upload something to you.
post #177 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revamp
Thank you for the time and effort devoted to this forum Karen, it really is very much appreciated!

A little OT with regards to broadband: do you have anyone in America offering that for free yet? A little earlier this year someone did that here in Britain and it turned the market totally upside down.

And Chris, it is uploading when someone downloads something from you and downloading when you let them upload something to you.
Yep, James... I know.

I was referring to satellite broadband - can't remember whether it's uploading or downloading which is still very slow, but one of them is. So you get a sort of half-broadband on satellite for the time being!

Christopher
post #178 of 179
post #179 of 179
Thread Starter 
Thank you so much, everyone for contributing to this thread. I appreciate every single one of you! We make a difference!

love and peace.
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