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NCSS Support Thread

post #1 of 210
Thread Starter 
This thread is for the sleep-dperived mamas and papas who are using the gentle method of NCSS to help their baby sleep better throughout the night.



Our sitter recommended we give DD a bath and milk so she'd sleep better. So we gave her a warm bath and let her play in the water and get some energy out. Then -- as soon as possible afterwards -- I got her on the breast.

It all looks so good on paper.

The electricity went out and we're having a heat wave. Add my body to the baby's body in a room with closed windows and you can see how easy it is to have a baby that won't go to sleep.

One hour later...

We finally took her into the basement. We're all sleeping down there in the cool air. The elec came back on, but we're already set up down there now.

Guess what? She's woken a lot. Now, I think she's too cold. So I put some socks and pants on her. We'll see what happens.

I did feel a small victory that I could get her back down with some rocking and loud humming. We do humming in the car when she is tired and cries and it works there so why shouldn't it work at home? I was able to rock her and get her mostly back to sleep and then sloooooooooowly put her on her back in the pack and play and, when she stirred, start to hum and she eventually went out.

And then she was up again in 39 minutes.

Sigh.

I'm feeling bummed. And now I'm really wired and can't sleep because I'm so tired.
post #2 of 210
is ncss pretty straight forward?? library doesnt have it and no $$ to buy it.
post #3 of 210
Thread Starter 
Can you get it through inter-library loan? When I lived in a small town with a terrible library, I ordered books from other libraries from all over the country.
post #4 of 210
I checked the interlibrary loan and apparently nobody has it? Strange.
post #5 of 210
We're doing NCSS here too, but only a wee bit. Leah is 3 months old, so it's nothing drastic, but we're trying to dull her sucking to sleep association. She wakes up every 45 minutes to an hour during the night and needs to nurse to go back to sleep. It's that fluttery comfort nursing, and I don't think she's taking much milk. But once her REM cycle is complete, and she wakes up a tad, she fusses to nurse.

I'm going back to work in 2 weeks, and would love for her to sleep for a few hours in a row at night.

So we're doing the "gentle removal" bit. Tough. It means I have to wake up much more than I used to. I hope I'm putting money in the bank, here, because I won't be able to do this once work starts...
post #6 of 210
Thread Starter 
Leah,

When my babe was about 3-4 months, I started doing a bedtime routine. We did certain things before the night sleep to signify it was night.

Also, we had DD in the cosleeper right near me. When I nursed she went back in there -- I was worried about rolling over on her -- and was pleasantly surprised to discover she'd sleep 5-7 hrs when she wasn't right next to me. If your baby's weight gain is good, then I don't think sleeping 5 hours would be a problem.

For my baby, weight gain WAS an issue. So I had to forego sleep to nurse all night and then that created the sleep issuse we have to day (I am fairly certain).

Anyhoo, my baby is a year. I've been sleep deprived for a year while working FT and am at a breaking pt -- and need sleep.

We're on day 2 of NCSS and noticing MAJOR improvements!!

And maybe some of the improvement has to do with our own learning...DH used to pick the baby up. This time he didn't and she settled back down in 2 min! So she is getting better and longer sleep. Before, I guess he was just waking her up more.
post #7 of 210
I'm so glad you're seeing improvement!!

Thanks for the advice re: Leah. She doesn't settle well when she's not next to me. Sometimes I can get her down to sleep and then move her into the cosleeper, but in the middle of the night I'm just to tired to stay awake that long. It's such a catch 22. I'm too tired to do what I need to do to get more sleep!
post #8 of 210
I'll be joining y'all. DD is 8 months old and has never been a sound sleeper. I think she slept maybe a 4-hour stretch one or two nights (like, in her life), but most nights she wakes every 2 hours or so just to comfort nurse herself back to sleep. I used to think she would grow out of it, but I'm really starting to think now that maybe there is something else I should try. I requested the book from another library and am hoping to get it early in the week. I'm totally keeping my fingers crossed. I'm not hoping for a miracle; even a 5-hour stretch would be heavenly.
post #9 of 210

Oh, yeah!!!

I'm so glad to see this support thread! We started a week ago and have been struggling (explained in a different post). We've not been as consistent as we need to be - that part is the hardest for us.

What are your nap routines? He sleeps so poorly when he's napping that our routine consists of plunking him in my sling and wearing him as he naps. Not that I mind...I'm forced to sit for an hour or so and I'm close to my babe. But that doesn't go very far in teaching him to sleep better on his own.
post #10 of 210
Thread Starter 
Stanswife--What sling do you use? My friend uses a sling to his babe to sleep and then gently undoes the sling and leaves it wrapped around the baby like a blanket. He uses the OTSBH, which is easy to slip off without waking the baby.

For those of you who do not have the book yet, here are excerpts from it:

http://www.pantley.com/elizabeth/con...ntingsleep.htm

Mikani -- LOL I thought YOU were Leah. I didn't realize she was your dd. See how tired I am!!

Tonight, the baby did a 3-hour stretch! I am learning a lot by keeping the nap logs. For instance, I learned that she was not sleeping as much at night as I thought she was.

RE: Naps: We don't do our whole routine for naps. For naps, I wait for sleepy signs and then get her into the bedroom asap. We do not delay any longer or else we miss the window and she gets revved up from being tired. *Usually* she does pretty well with the naps. Today was bad. A poopy diaper woke her up. Can't say I blame her for that!
post #11 of 210
DD naps really well, which I guess is what allows her to not sleep well at night! She's on a pretty regular routine; nap around 10:00am for 60-90 minutes, and then another nap around 4:00pm for 60-90 minutes, sometimes even 2 hours. We have an Amby though, which I know helps her sleep soundly for naps. I've tried it for night-time sleeping, but she wakes up whenever she tries to roll over in it. :

Last night she slept for 3 1/2 hours straight, which was really nice. I'm hoping with a little help, I can figure out how to ease her into even longer stretches at night.

I can't wait to read it so I will have more to contribute!
post #12 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by henhao
Stanswife--What sling do you use? My friend uses a sling to his babe to sleep and then gently undoes the sling and leaves it wrapped around the baby like a blanket. He uses the OTSBH, which is easy to slip off without waking the baby.
Henhao, I use a Heavenly Bundle sling with DS in the cradle carry. He's almost 19 pounds though, so when he outgrows the cradle carry in that one, I'll switch to my husband's size L New Native. The only problem with pouch slings is that I can't really take him off without waking him up.

Yeah for your progress! And a few hours sleep.
post #13 of 210
Thread Starter 
Stanswife--Oh, well I hope y'all find something that works for you both. =)

I think we're in nap transition here -- and teething heck -- baby wouldn't go to sleep...then DUH I realized she probably needed some teething tablets. Meanwhile an hour went by.

She skipped her afternoon nap and then fell asleep at the pool! She totally shocked me by wanting to go to sleep at 6:30 tonight. So she fell asleep there and then, when we got home, she would not go to sleep easily. Sigh. By keeping the logs, I realize now that when she skips an afternoon nap that she might want to go to bed earlier.

This transition thing is tricky.

We've spent 45 min trying to get her down. She is so tired...she just won't go...My turn to relieve DH is coming up so gotta dash.
post #14 of 210
Thread Starter 
It works! She slept the longest stretches tonight. :

now if I could just get to sleep. i'm so excited i can't sleep.
post #15 of 210

Yay!

Hoorah Henhao!!! Sleep is so wonderful...

Nap schedule? What's that?

The last few weeks have been tough for naps, and I finally figured out what it was. Up to that point, Leah's naps and her nursing were synchronized. She would nurse to sleep for every nap. Then at 3 months, she started being awake for longer stretches, and so didn't nurse down, but had no other way of falling asleep.

Much screeching, much angst.

Now that I know what's going on, I can look for her sleepy signs and put her down when I first see them. But for a while, there, it was really rough.
post #16 of 210
Thread Starter 
Mikani--Wow, sometimes just having awareness helps to solve a problem. You just proved it!
post #17 of 210
Hi! I'll join in, too!

DS is 3 mos this week, and I read NCSS about a month ago. We have been gradually implementing some of her ideas, but not expecting DS to sleep all night for a bit! We have a very effective bedtime routine - we all go for a walk when DH gets home, DS rides in the Moby wrap facing out and loves to look at the trees. When we get home, he takes a bath (freaks out while getting dried off) and then he nurses until he falls asleep. At some point while he's nursing, he takes a 5 minute break, so I have been swaddling him then. The past two nights he has slept a 5 3/4 hour stretch! His max before this was 5 hours, and he had only done that once after crying for several hours before bed. (That's about the time when we started realizing he was associating a bath with going to bed and that we didn't have wait and give him a bath as a last resort at 11 PM - ) We have been working on shifting his bedtime since he was getting tired early and he had been staying up late. We have gone from 10 or 11 to 8PM and tried 7PM for the first time last night. We have even gotten to a point where we can leave him with a monitor so that I can eat dinner after he has gone to bed. It makes me nervous leaving him alone, though, so I'm always glad to get back in there with him. He sleeps in his cosleeper sometimes (when he's being fidgety), but mostly in bed with us. I do want to help him get used to sleeping without another person next to him as long as he is open to it, though.

Our biggest problem now is naps. He shows signs of tiredness, then I work on getting him to sleep and fairly often he wakes up 10-15 minutes later. Some days he will nap great, for 1-2 hours in the morning, then I have trouble in the afternoon. Other days, he won't even get the morning nap. I feel like I spend the whole day trying to get him to sleep, and if he doesn't he gets super crabby at about 4 PM. So, he definitely needs the naps! One thing he has responded to is being swaddled in his swing with the Princess Bride theme playing in the background on auto repeat.

I am not doing the nipple pull-out, since we had an overproduction/foremilk-hindmilk imbalance problem, so I want him to get as much hindmilk as possible so that we don't have that happen again. He nurses for about 30-45 minutes right before bed, and I'm OK with him falling asleep there, especially since he has fallen asleep on his own sometimes for naps or after he wakes up in the middle of the night. He tends to pop off with a flourish when he's done, anyways.

He got 12 hours total of sleep when I kept track. I'm hoping that if we get the naps figured out he will get closer to the recommended 15. I think that longer sleep stretches at night will REALLY help! *fingers crossed*
post #18 of 210
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by L'lee
I am not doing the nipple pull-out, since we had an overproduction/foremilk-hindmilk imbalance problem, so I want him to get as much hindmilk as possible so that we don't have that happen again. He nurses for about 30-45 minutes right before bed, and I'm OK with him falling asleep there, especially since he has fallen asleep on his own sometimes for naps or after he wakes up in the middle of the night. He tends to pop off with a flourish when he's done, anyways.
Welcome! At 3 months, I think you just do whatever works since you're still kind of in the 4th trimester...If falling asleep at the boob works for naps, do it! I had many a lovely time reading/knitting/spacing out/napping/watching movies while DD slept at my breast.

Your routine sounds like it's working for all of you and you all get to spend time on the walk reconnecting at the end of the day and getting some exercise. What a plan!
post #19 of 210

Progress

I posted in another thread that DS is making progress, but thought I'd flesh it out here. He slept for 2 hours 45 minutes straight last night and has been asleep now for an hour 10 minutes. AMAZING. He NEVER naps, unless I intervene to lengthen it. I'm still tired, but hope to catch up from the last two weeks this weekend.

Also, don't know if this will continue, but I had been slinging him to get him to sleep and thought he couldn't/wouldn't go to sleep any other way. Well, my sling kills my back after a couple hours, so I decided to hold and dance with him. Worked like a charm and much quicker. Huh!
post #20 of 210
Hi, joining ya'll w/ my 14 mo. old. I have a couple of questions for anyone who can help...Reading NCSS (for Toddlers but same info) I couldn't figure out if she was implying "scheduling' naps, like "OK, it's 2:30, time to nap." Reading these responses it sounds like everyone is following their dc's cues. Is that right? Or is anyone saying, "ok, it's 2:30, let's go lie in bed and hope for the best"?

Also, Henhao and anyone else w/ a 1+ yr old, you don't nurse to sleep? Has it always been that way? We've nursed to sleep every single time we've been at home, naps and nighttime for 14 months and that association is HUGE. The PPO just isn't cutting it. I'm really at a loss at how to change this--if he manages to fall asleep in the stroller or whatever, when we lay him in the bed (we cosleep) he wakes up and wants the boob or else! I'm thinking of trying Jay Gordon's plan for night weaning but that still won't help *getting* him to sleep.
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