Would you fly without a carseat? - Page 5

[luckymamato2]

2 is the cutoff for "in arms." We have not used a carseat or purchased them their own seat yet - and my two are 6m and 22m.

[jstar]

slings aren't FAA approved so that is why they make you take them off. the FAA hasn't done testing on them as 'restraint devices'.

kids over 2 are supposed to be strapped in the seatbelt during takeoff and landing. that is about how long my 2 year old will keep the seatbelt on. if even that.

i lived overseas for the majority of my childhood and have spent many many hours flying. i've rarely experienced turbulence rough enough to make things fly though the air. hence my low paranoia about the carseat thing. i have very high paranoia about flying in general. i hate it now. mechanical failure weighs heavily on my mind. i don't trust the airline companies and their maintenance plans

[mamamilkers]

[QUOTE=HeatherKae]I did this at O'Hare in Chicago and at SeaTac in Seattle. Not a single solitary soul offered to help. I had plenty of stares. I even had a whole family laughing at me. But nobody lifted a finger. At O'Hare a woman stopped and pointed then said something to her husband. I saw him shake his head without even pausing. She looked back at me with sympathy and ran up to catch him. That was the closest I got to help.
[QUOTE]

I just had to comment on this-- these were the two airports I went through on my recent trip, as well! How crazy. O'Hare was WAY worse (I think because it was bigger and busier) but both were a nightmare. I also flew on an airline that was really, really unaccomodating. The two airlines I had flown previously were better.

I actually yelled at two employees in O'Hare because they were so rude to me. Ugh.

[lasciate]

Originally Posted by mamamilkers

If babes under two can be in arms, where are the children over age two during take off and landing if their parents didn't bring car seats? I assumed they can't be strapped in to a regular seat (that couldn't be much safer than no seat belt!) but I just can't figure it out. I have seen lots of people in the airport with small children who aren't lugging carseats, so what's the deal?

If they're over age 2, their parents have to buy them a separate seat. They have to be strapped into their seat with the seatbelt during takeoff and landing.

[m9m9m9]

I will be taking my 2 year old on a trip in August and no way woud I lug the Britax MArathon on the plane. I refuse to actually remove it from the car bc it takes so much effort to get it in there right.

One thing that comes to mind is if there is a crash landing and it is survivable I woud worry the car seat would become more of a hinderance. It can't be installed as securely on a plane seat as it can in a car - no tethers - so it can slide forward. What if it did and then there was debris or something and it ended up being a case where it was difficult to get to the child in the seat? Or what if the seat ended up blocking people's exit bc it got flung around.

Maggie

[slacker_mom]

Originally Posted by Roxswood

Bizarrely the JAA (European equivalent of FAA) will not allow children under two to ride in carseats when the seatbelt sign is illuminated, they must be in their parents lap with a seperate seatbelt that attaches to the parents belt.
Blows my mind how the JAA and FAA can have such different recommendations but they do. Over 2 years they can ride in an approved airline seat in their own seat but they say that being in an adult seatbelt is just as safe from two years and up.

We ran into a situation like this on Lufthansa. They told us German law did NOT allow us to use our (FAA-approved) carseat in the seat for which we we paid full fare for our 15-month-old, since she was under 2, and carseats in planes are considered "un-tested" for under-2's, and thus un-approved. We were supposed to take her out of the seat during take-off and landing, and they said I would be given a pillow to cushion the child as I held her on my lap. They did not offer any special belt. I raised hell and finally got the captain's approval to use the car seat. It was so bizarre. :

[Roxswood]

They should have given you a loop belt to go around her, the JAA states this is necessary for children on laps.

[Starlitlexy]

Originally Posted by monkeys4mama

I recently flew w/ my 1 yr old dd in my arms. What really p*ssed me off is that she was sleeping soundly in her sling and the flight attendant told me I could not have her in the sling! WTF??? Why on earth not? She was comfy and sleeping nicely and I had to wake her up by taking her out of her sling in order that she could sit *totally unrestrained* in my arms for take-off. They assured me I could put her back in the sling when the "seatbelts" light went off.

DUH! How incredibly stupid is that? I mean, what harm could possibly come to a baby being in a sling in mom's lap? If there was turbulence, she'd be safer from being tossed around. And if there was an emergency and we all had to evacuate the plane, well I would have my hands free to help my other kids off and still be able to safely get her out. What kind of stupidity is this? Can there possibly be a sound reason behind it? I can see if they were saying she *had* to be in a carseat. But no. She could be totally free in my lap, just not comfy in her sling.

She cried all the way through takeoff too!!! Served them right.

I think I'd complain to the airline I flew. That is incredibly ridiculous. You're child was safely restrained compared to her sitting freely on your lap crying? Ugh the stupid it hurts. hehe I had them take my son who was asleep at 15 months out of the sling for the metal detector which makes more sense but of course still pissed me off because I had luggage and a baby by myself who was finally alseep. lol I was pissed to begin with though seeing how I was overwhelmed with flying by myself with a little one.

[lasciate]

Originally Posted by m9m9m9

I will be taking my 2 year old on a trip in August and no way woud I lug the Britax MArathon on the plane. I refuse to actually remove it from the car bc it takes so much effort to get it in there right.

One thing that comes to mind is if there is a crash landing and it is survivable I woud worry the car seat would become more of a hinderance. It can't be installed as securely on a plane seat as it can in a car - no tethers - so it can slide forward. What if it did and then there was debris or something and it ended up being a case where it was difficult to get to the child in the seat? Or what if the seat ended up blocking people's exit bc it got flung around.

Maggie

The tether only reduces head excursion (the amount of movement at the top of the seat) so the only reason the seat would get 'flung around' would be if it wasn't installed properly.

[aydensmama]

Yes, yes, yes...I always flew in my parents lap until 2..same with sis and bro.

I have flown at least 10 times in ds1's life span. Once he is two, we will buy him a seat. He nurses on take off and landing to help his ears, so he wouldn't be in his seat I paid for him even if he had it, during apparently the most risky times. He also sits in his sling the entire time, 1 or 4 hour flight, doesn't matter how long.

About take off and landing sling rule, I wear it loosely, and throw the tail of my ring sling over the baby or around the sling part. If someone mentions it to me, I say ok, and then loosen...when the attendant turns around and sits in here seat, I tighten him back up again. More times than not, no one has said anything!

[2M's Mom]

Wow, I have to say, I am surprised that the majority would fly without a carseat. I didn't read the entire thread, but we've flown a lot with both kids. Only once did we not have one of our kids in a car seat. I was worried the entire time, and the trip was miserable.

[Cardinal]

Just flew last week from Little Rock to Dallas without a car seat. Had DS on our lap the whole time and felt perfectly safe. During turbulence, which we had pretty badly on the way there, I held him a little tighter with both arms. We checked our Britax.

American airlines were pretty child UNfriendly. They didn't have those huge plastic bags to cover the car seats, the airline attendees were rude, and the flights were jam-packed. Furthermore, our Britax was slightly damaged on the very bottom because of being thrown around. I wonder if they were playing football with it on the tarmac?

[nannymom]

Originally Posted by Cardinal

Just flew last week from Little Rock to Dallas without a car seat. Had DS on our lap the whole time and felt perfectly safe. During turbulence, which we had pretty badly on the way there, I held him a little tighter with both arms. We checked our Britax.

American airlines were pretty child UNfriendly. They didn't have those huge plastic bags to cover the car seats, the airline attendees were rude, and the flights were jam-packed. Furthermore, our Britax was slightly damaged on the very bottom because of being thrown around. I wonder if they were playing football with it on the tarmac?

It was American airlines in dallas that lost my luggage and my cars eat and they were awful through otu the whole thing.:

[claras_mom]

Originally Posted by dynamohumm6

If the FAA felt it was unsafe, the FAA would make it law. I doubt the airlines would protest, as they would be making more money. Knowing the financial state that the airlines are all in these days, I'm sure that they would jump at the chance to MAKE it law if any study ever indicated the slightest hint that lap-babies were in danger in any situation. Given that the government feels like the general population is too stupid to take care of themselves and needs to regulate everything under the sun, if there's no law about carseats in planes, it's probably considered pretty safe.

Not that a car seat is going to do much good if your plane is plummeting 36,000 feet anyway.

Someone may have pointed this out already. There was a news article awhile back--the FAA (or someone) would like to mandate carseats in planes, but feel that the added expense would keep parents from flying. They'd drive instead. And statistically, flying is safer than driving.

We've done both with dd. Long flight overseas--her own seat and carseat. Shorter flights--in arms. Even though she won't be two until December, in the fall I have a business trip, and will probably spring for a seat for her. She's comfortable in the carseat--it's familiar--and despite the hassle of schlepping the carseat, having the additional room for all of us and the added safety for her will be a good thing.

[pinuchkin]

The airlines I've used don't allow it after age 2. That said, I flew with DD when she was 15 months old WITHOUT a carseat, and will never do that again with that age -- kicking, screaming, angry mess. When she's in her carseat she's pretty calm comparatively.

When she was little, I had to have her bucket carseat with us anyway, and befriended a flight attendant who found us an extra empty seat to put her in which was great (no second-seat charge).

[Jaydens_mom]

I don't believe flying on an airplane poses the same threats as riding in a car. I am pretty sure there is also a "child under 2 sits on parents lap, child over 2 requires thier own seat" rule. Seeing my child is over 2 he would have to sit in his own seat. If it was necessary for me to bring my car seat for the trip due to alot of car traveling upon destination, then i would most definately concider using it while on the plane instead of having it placed in cargo. After all my son tends to sit still better when he is strapped in his carseat and take the ride alot easier/without fuss.
If i had no other reason to bring a carseat i wouldn't, as it would be an inconvience for me to have to drag it around on my trip.
I would place my son in his own seat beside me with the restraint in place and tightened.
Planes don't have sudden stops like a car. So other than high turbulance, or the plane over turning, the child is not going to fall out of the seat.

[Jwebbal]

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[Jwebbal]

Here is a link to a related thread about car seats and purchasing seats for babies under 2.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=397097

[Jwebbal]

Lap babies (under 2) do fly for free on domestic flights, but for me the price isn't worth the risk of my baby's life. Babies flying without a car seat are at risk of serious injury during turbulence or emergency landings. Did you know that in the instance of an emergency landing that a flight attendant will instruct you to put your baby on the floor at your feet? Yes, that is what you are required to do, as there is no possible way you can hold onto your child and he could become airborne and hurt someone else. Not to mention what would happen to him, of course. You could also crush him between you and the seat back in front of you. Flight attendants are required to strap down coffee pots, but babies are free to fly around the cabin in turbulence or emergency landings? (much more common than crashes, and there are often collisions on runways).

Most airlines will sell you a half price seat for an infant under two, and you can bring your car seat because more than likely you will need it where you are going. A car seat can be put on a stroller, and the stroller checked at the gate. Babies are usually happier in a car seat anyway, mine was, he didn't beg to explore really, because he knows when he is in his car seat he doesn't get out until the ride is over. Besides, if you baby falls asleep on your lap and you need to use the bathroom, what then?

Think about it, you have to put your carry on under the seat or up in the storage above you, because why? Because in an emergency it will go flying, I wouldn't want to even think of that happening to a child. Turbulence can occur without warning.

With all the women on this board talking about car seats all the time and offering great help there, why would so many not use one when on an airplane? Do we use car seats because its the law? Or becaues its better for our children? Both the FAA, the NTSB, the AAP and National Association of Flight attendants all say say children under 2 should be put in child restraint seats during flights agreeing its MUCH safer for them, but just because the FAA doesn't require us to, we put them at risk? Babies have died as a direct result of not having their own seat. The FAA isn't even following its own policy recommendations, and our children suffer because of it.
'
CBS video and article on airplane Child restraints

The flight attendant in the CBS video (its a good video) is a suriviving flight attendant from the Sioux city crash, where an infant died after being wrenched from his mother's arms.

Article written by mom who has been there, on child safety restraints on airplanes


The information is out there, lets start following their advice and keep our babies safe. Will it cost extra money? Sure, but our children are priceless right?

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[Jwebbal]

It is obvious from my own witnessing at airports that most people do not put their under 2 yo's in car seats, though thankfully its getting to be more common. Even the FAA wants you to, but they don't change the rule, which bugs me. Take a look at their own stuff on this,

FAA-- Turbulence happens

So yes, I want to see babies be safe on planes, if my passion offends you, please just read the links and think about it.