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Do you care whether your children believe in G-d? - Page 7

post #121 of 240
Oh dear, I just realized that my question was totally stupid. : Someone who doesn't believe in God probably doesn't believe in hell either. So the issue of going to hell for them would be a non-issue, hey?
post #122 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidzaplenty
and if we deny Him, we are at best a stranger, at worst, His enemy. ..
So to get to the very basics, yes, I believe that anyone that dies without accepting Jesus as their Saviour will be condemned by their own choice of denying Him. ...
I believe that believers are wasting their time at best, and often doing horrible things at worst, in the name of imaginary dieties.
post #123 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidzaplenty
Any one can be a "good person" and any one can have good morals, and not every "Christian" is considered a "good person" at first glance. However, a true Christian will start out where they are and begin improving themselves by following Christ and becoming more and more like Him as they grow and mature in Christianity. So all Christians have flaws.

As for our life after death. I totally believe that my God is the One True God the Creator of everything. And I also believe that He sent His only Son to die in my place, for my sins. I also believe that He was raised up to life again and assended back to God, His Father, in Heaven. Heaven is God's home. He wants everyone, all His creation to join Him there, to live there with Him. However, He will not allow those in who deny His name. Why should He, it is His home. I would not allow a stranger into my home, and if we deny Him, we are at best a stranger, at worst, His enemy. I also believe that there are only two choices in the afterlife. One with God and one without.

So to get to the very basics, yes, I believe that anyone that dies without accepting Jesus as their Saviour will be condemned by their own choice of denying Him. We all have a freewill to choose. I do not condemn anyone. I love everyone. And I do my best to be the best Christlike person that I can, by showing love to all no matter what they believe. I do not think I am better than anyone else, as a matter of fact, many times I feel much less than most. And I try to think of everyone else above myself at all times. But I will not compromise my beliefs for no one.
Very well said :
post #124 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by boingo82
I believe that believers are wasting their time at best, and often doing horrible things at worst, in the name of imaginary dieties.
I agree with the second half of this, and I am not sure about the first. I found this letter to the editor in today's paper rather interesting. God and war simply don't mix
Quote:
No matter how the proponents of perpetual global conflict and war try to rationalize and justify their violent acts, God and war simply don't mix.

With all the frenzy created with the upcoming U.S. political campaigns and the surfacing of another plot to terrorize the United States, the "war on terror" has once again taken front and center. Foolish leaders on both sides of this "failure of humanity" insist they will defeat (kill) the "evil doers."
I posted a thread in Religion not too long ago about my struggles with how most major world conflict is based on one religious belief or another and it disturbs me greatly.
post #125 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama
Well, that's pretty darn obvious in today's world.
What were you thinking kim? You shoud know better than to go off topic in a religious thread!

kim
post #126 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama
I agree with the second half of this, and I am not sure about the first. I found this letter to the editor in today's paper rather interesting. God and war simply don't mix
I posted a thread in Religion not too long ago about my struggles with how most major world conflict is based on one religious belief or another and it disturbs me greatly.
Anne Lamott: "You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image, when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."

Blaise Paschal: "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
post #127 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by boingo82
I believe that believers are wasting their time at best
Thats how my FIL tried to sell religion to us. Saying *if* there wasn's a god, he lived his life out believing that there was one, no harm done but *if* there is one he gets to live in heaven when he dies He found god sitting in a jail cell.
post #128 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by boingo82
Anne Lamott: "You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image, when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."

Blaise Paschal: "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
post #129 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharlla
Thats how my FIL tried to sell religion to us. Saying *if* there wasn's a god, he lived his life out believing that there was one, no harm done but *if* there is one he gets to live in heaven when he dies He found god sitting in a jail cell.
, I have had someone try to pitch it to me like that too.
He said that he believed, because why not, when you might get into heaven!
I said, "You don't think God will see right through that?"


Actually...fun next topic. Which is better? Being a non-believer, but a good person, because you believe that is the right thing to do.....or being a believer who is "good" only because you are trying to get yours too?
My (LDS) coworker maintains that it's morally superior to be the latter. I disagree.
post #130 of 240
The problem with Pascal's wager is that it presupposes that the Bible is true and that God is the Christian God.
post #131 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidzaplenty
Why is it that so many of you would be disappointed or upset if your children became "Christian"? Why is the Christian God the one that you really don't want your children to worship? Why would it be different if they were to begin worshiping nature, or Buddah, Allah, Baal, or any other god?
I haven't finished this entire thread yet, but I would be disappointed if my children became Christians because most Christianity is, by it's very nature, exclusionary. It strikes me as exceedingly arrogant to say "My way is the one and only way! Nobody can relate to their spirituality unless they do it this way!" Come now; we don't all wear the same size shoes. We don't all have the same length gait. We can't all relate to the physical world in exactly the same way, so how could we possibly relate to the spiritual world in exactly the same way? It just doesn't make sense to me.

There are Christians who are far more open-minded than this, but the overwhelming majority are not. They adhere to doctrines which expressly state that things must be done this way or they may as well not be done at all. I can't accept that, and I'd be extremely disappointed (perhaps even despondant) if my children could.
post #132 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by boingo82
Which is better? Being a non-believer, but a good person, because you believe that is the right thing to do.....or being a believer who is "good" only because you are trying to get yours too?
I was just thinking about that same thing yesterday. I would much rather have children that do the right thing because they feel in their hearts that it's better to do so then to have them only doing the right thing to get to Heaven or whatever.
post #133 of 240
This thread reminds me of a joke from the comedian Emo Philips, (might not have the exact words):

"When I was a kid I used to pray every single night for a new bicycle. Then later I realized that the Lord - in His wisdom - doesn't work that way....




So I stole one and asked him to forgive me!"
post #134 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by boingo82
Actually...fun next topic. Which is better? Being a non-believer, but a good person, because you believe that is the right thing to do.....or being a believer who is "good" only because you are trying to get yours too?
My (LDS) coworker maintains that it's morally superior to be the latter. I disagree.
I disagree too. I think it's revolting to think of the fact that so many people believe this too.
post #135 of 240
My dh pointed out something recently. He and I agree that religion often gets a free pass on expectations of evidence.

If someone tells me a *fact*, I expect there to be evidence to back up that fact - if there is no evidence, then it isn't a fact, it is an opinion or a belief.

We have a pretty good (but not perfect because it is implemented by people) method of collecting and testing evidence - it is called the scientific method.

If you apply the scientific method to religion, you quickly see there is no evidence for God. Believe me, if there were hard, repeatable, independently verifiable evidence for God, intelligent design, etc, scientists would fall over themselves to publish it in a peer reviewed journal - can't you just smell the Nobel prize?

It is incredibly important for my children to understand the scientific method and to apply reason to what they are told. How can I tell my children to *not believe everything you are told or read unless you trust the source* and then tell them to not question X or Y because it is classified as religion?

Yes, there is a certain amount of faith involved in daily life. I have faith that my car company did its research on how to create effective brakes - but that faith is backed up by knowledge of the context in which that company makes its products - i.e. if they put out faulty brakes, someone else would make a better product and/or the company would get sued, fined, etc.

So in summary, our non-belief in God comes down to our entire belief systems about truth and trust. What evidence is acceptable? Who can you trust? What can you trust?

My own musings, as always.
Siobhan
post #136 of 240
Yep. It all ultimately comes down to having faith in something that isn't verifiable and in fact contradicts most of the available evidence.

(Though my own agnosticism, rather than atheism, rests on the idea that if there is a God, he/she/it would have to be outside the universe we can detect. I am also somewhat attracted to pantheism and the idea that we are all part of God, or at least of a universal life or consciousness, which would also be undetectable from the inside, in the same way that a single cell in our bodies does not perceive or comprehend the whole.)

I don't have a problem with religion as a metaphor for how the universe works, though. I think the issue is when people get all hung up on literalism, and that's what I hope for my children to avoid.
post #137 of 240
I don't mind if they believe or don't believe in God, but I'd hate for them to start thinking there was only one path to higher consciousness. I'd hate for them to be Republican, too!

I believe there are many paths and each of us walks our own.
post #138 of 240
I don't care if my children believe in god someday. I will do everything I can to help them get in touch with thier inner spirituality & divinity. Whether they are able to touch that spirit by communing with nature, meditating, or kneeling in front of a cross, I don't really care.

However, I will be really disappointed if they become rigid thinkers. I will be greatly disappointed if they are compassionless.

I will also teach them that there have been many wise teachers throughout the ages, male and female. That we don't have to reinvent the wheel, we can learn from the past. I really liked what a pp said about adding texture to your life with spirituality.
post #139 of 240
I believe the human journey sometimes includes a religious phase, and its developmental, sort of like one expects a child to have potty accidents while learning to use the potty. It will pass. It SHOULD pass.

Just as every child develops at their own pace, I try to see Christians as deserving of compassion, especially since they seem stuck in such a fear-based place.
post #140 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama
See, I think this implies that anyone that doesn't belive in God, or a God, isn't or can't be a good person. There are many people who don't believe, but are incredibly wonderful, good-hearted and generous loving people. I see a great flaw in believing that as long as one believes in God and welcomes him into their heart, that they are saved no matter what they do or how they treat others.

My aunt told me, a long time ago, that you don't have to go to church to be a good person and just because someone goes to church, does NOT make them a good person. I will never forget that, ever.

I will not go into details, but I know people who have done some terrible, terrible things in their lives and never miss a day of worship. At times, I think it is awfully selfish to belive that simply by believing in God that one will go to heaven, even if they made life hell for others.
I didn't mean to imply that if you don't believe in God you are not a good person. That is simply not true. I know a lot of people that don't worship God, or attend a church but by worldly standards they are good people. They treat people with respect, they would give the shirt off their backs to help someone else etc. On the other hand if you are a Christian then you want to love others as God loves you therefore treating everyone with respect and love, not condem them or put them down. That is not my intentions ever. I agree you don't have to attend church to be a good person. Most Christians attend church to worship with other Christians, to ask forgiveness for their sins and to learn more about God. There are those who hide behind the church using it as an excuse to sin therefore giving God's church a bad name. I feel that I don't make life Hell for others, I very simply share my faith with them. If they want to hear it great! If not, I understand. I am not pushy about it. It is everyone's choice whether to accept or reject God. I do believe that once you are saved no matter what you do if you go to God with a humble heart and ask forgiveness and truly repent He will forgive you. As a Christian I strive each day to bring glory to God, by being kind to my neighbors, not lying, cheating, stealing, etc. I am a loving wife and mother and I am raising my daughter to the best of my ability, just like the rest of you, but that does not make me better than anyone else.
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