mother's "looks" and how she is treated... - Page 6

[hawkfeather]

Originally Posted by frenchie

Well, I didn't take it that way...I was just answering the question as it was posed to me....and then somehow my post was turned into a comparison of discriminations. I simply answered, a simply asked question.

i thought it was you that made the initial comparison, saying you could relate to being discriminated against because you have tattoos?.. I know you are not the only one who made the comparison.

It might be a small point but i also do not think the affects of all discrimination are the same, sometimes being able to discriminate keeps us safe..i think there must be a wide range of affects.

If you are gay, or of colour or overweight etc... and are suffering at the hand of discrimination you are generally being oppressed and can eventually allow those prejudices to penetrate affecting your sense of self worth, or how you feel about being any one of those things. I am sad to say it by i do not know many who *like* being big, every gay person i know has gone thru periods of intense alienation and self doubt..
And even though being tattoo'd often welcomes vast judgments, i do not know many people who doubt, hate, dislike or even regret their tattoos.. in fact most go on to get more..most -I know- celebrate the difference.

that is all i am trying to say really. it is pretty far off from the op but oh well.

[mothragirl]

Originally Posted by hawkfeather

i thought it was you that made the initial comparison, saying you could relate to being discriminated against because you have tattoos?.. I know you are not the only one who made the comparison.


that is all i am trying to say really. it is pretty far off from the op but oh well.

well i originally made the statement. the topic was how our looks effect us when NIP and i stated just that. i felt like i had to respond again when there was a post basically invalidating my feelings. i think it is silly to say that some discrimination is worse than others, it's all bad.

[frenchie]

Originally Posted by hawkfeather

i thought it was you that made the initial comparison, saying you could relate to being discriminated against because you have tattoos?.. I know you are not the only one who made the comparison.

It might be a small point but i also do not think the affects of all discrimination are the same, sometimes being able to discriminate keeps us safe..i think there must be a wide range of affects.

If you are gay, or of colour or overweight etc... and are suffering at the hand of discrimination you are generally being oppressed and can eventually allow those prejudices to penetrate affecting your sense of self worth, or how you feel about being any one of those things. I am sad to say it by i do not know many who *like* being big, every gay person i know has gone thru periods of intense alienation and self doubt..
And even though being tattoo'd often welcomes vast judgments, i do not know many people who doubt, hate, dislike or even regret their tattoos.. in fact most go on to get more..most -I know- celebrate the difference.

that is all i am trying to say really. it is pretty far off from the op but oh well.

I wasn't making a comparison by making that statement, I was stating that I have, in fact, experienced discrimination. I think our differing opinions on discrimination is the reason we aren't able to meet in the middle in this discussion.
At dinner this evening, I was thinking about this thread, and realized that I can't hold absolutely true to my pp...I most definately have a discriminating attitude toward pedophiles and rapists. With the safety issue, I prefer to use the word discernment...but either way, I totally agree with you on your point.
As for tattoos....I have to say that I have known and met many people who are very regretful of their tattoos. In fact, I work with a guy who hates his tattoos. I went to cosmotology school with a girl who had 9 tattoos removed at once. Also, contrary to your statement about gay people...I can't say I've ever met a gay person who didn't like being gay. Being in the industry I am in, I'm around homosexuals a lot...also because I have family members who are gay. I won't argue about the self doubt and alienation...but those periods in life are not exclusive to homosexuals.
Though this thread has totally gone off of the original subject, and I sort of took a little beating, I think it's been very thought provoking...at least it has been for me, because I find myself thinking about it a lot

[hawkfeather]

Originally Posted by mothragirl

well i originally made the statement. the topic was how our looks effect us when NIP and i stated just that. i felt like i had to respond again when there was a post basically invalidating my feelings. i think it is silly to say that some discrimination is worse than others, it's all bad.

I did not say it was worse..i said it is differant. And like most differant things, hard it not impossible to compare.

It is fine you think it is silly, but please don't say it right after you say your feelings were invalidated.

I am not sure if you felt my post -saying i did not think one could compare being discriminated aganist for being tattoo'd with being overweight- was in response to your post...but it was not.
Stating that your tattoo's affect the public response and reaction to BFing, which was the OP is not the same as saying.. yes I hurt some people by saying my dh was disgusted by a big woman, but i can relate because i have tattoo's...which is what i responded too. (that was in no way a quote..) That is just the sentiment i percieved. My apoligeze if i am wrong about the expressed sentiment. I am generalizing..

I would never argue that Tattoo's do not affect the population's reaction to a BFing mother, but i still do not think all forms of discrimination are comparable.

I stand by my opinion...while i am sure everyone can relate to being discriminated against at some pont in life. I do not think it is all comparable.

Tattoos are a choice, even if it is a need, you choose the design you choose the placement, you choose to get more. Even if one day you grow tired of them- And unless someone was tattoo'd without consent and regrets it and wishes they could change, as some who are overwieght feel -I think it is differant. I would love to discuss embracing a lifestyle that is not accepted by our mass culture.. but the topic has strayed pretty far already.

I am sorry you feel your feelings were invalidated, I think it is valid that someone would think all forms of discrimination are equally bad- I simply do not agree.

Being told that someone can not understand your point unless they have tattoo's doesn't go very far to saying there is some ability to *relate* here.

[hawkfeather]

Originally Posted by frenchie

I wasn't making a comparison by making that statement, I was stating that I have, in fact, experienced discrimination. I think our differing opinions on discrimination is the reason we aren't able to meet in the middle in this discussion.
At dinner this evening, I was thinking about this thread, and realized that I can't hold absolutely true to my pp...I most definately have a discriminating attitude toward pedophiles and rapists. With the safety issue, I prefer to use the word discernment...but either way, I totally agree with you on your point.
As for tattoos....I have to say that I have known and met many people who are very regretful of their tattoos. In fact, I work with a guy who hates his tattoos. I went to cosmotology school with a girl who had 9 tattoos removed at once. Also, contrary to your statement about gay people...I can't say I've ever met a gay person who didn't like being gay. Being in the industry I am in, I'm around homosexuals a lot...also because I have family members who are gay. I won't argue about the self doubt and alienation...but those periods in life are not exclusive to homosexuals.
Though this thread has totally gone off of the original subject, and I sort of took a little beating, I think it's been very thought provoking...at least it has been for me, because I find myself thinking about it a lot

I agree every post i think *wow this is far off.*. but i am enjoying reading the differant attitudes and opinions.. so as far as meeting me in the middle.. no worries.. I never had any epxectation that anyone should or would agree anywhere in the spectrum with me- i just want to share my feelings.


I fully agree there are many groups of our society i discriminate against- happily in fact. Pedophiles and rapists being some!

I know there are many people who dislike thier tattoos, that wasn't really my point.
*I* do not know many (if any) people that dislike their's..

And about being gay-
I do not know a SINGLE gay person who dislikes being gay- that is not what i said- every gay or lesbian person i know also went thru intense periods of confusion, self doubt even self hatred. The stats put out by pflag concerning suicide rates, high school drop outs due to alienation and prejudices- family black listing.. is crushing. I know we all have periods of self doubt, but still the sucide rates for gay youth are leaps and bounds higher than others. Working with gay adults who are out and happy with thier lives doesn't paint the same picture as volunteering with advocacy groups for dispondent gay youths..
periods of exclusion are not exclusive to gays at all.

[Nisupulla]

Originally Posted by hawkfeather

i am enjoying reading the differant attitudes and opinions..

Me too. Several posters here have taken a beating and still came back with thoughtful posts.

[hawkfeather]

Originally Posted by Nisupulla

Me too. Several posters here have taken a beating and still came back with thoughtful posts.

yeah!!!!!!!

[frenchie]

Originally Posted by hawkfeather

And about being gay-
I do not know a SINGLE gay person who dislikes being gay- that is not what i said- every gay or lesbian person i know also went thru intense periods of confusion, self doubt even self hatred. The stats put out by pflag concerning suicide rates, high school drop outs due to alienation and prejudices- family black listing.. is crushing. I know we all have periods of self doubt, but still the sucide rates for gay youth are leaps and bounds higher than others. Working with gay adults who are out and happy with thier lives doesn't paint the same picture as volunteering with advocacy groups for dispondent gay youths..
periods of exclusion are not exclusive to gays at all.

I misunderstood you. I'm definately aware of the stats with youth, and it's very sad. I have quite a few friends that came out after high school, and a couple that came out in their late teens. I know a few of them had a real hard time...as one of them attempted suicide on several occasions...the last attempt, his sister came home unexpectedly and found him on the verge of death. He came out about a year later, and was the happiest and most content I had ever seen him.
At any rate, how does one get involved in a volunteer program like the one you mentioned? You can PM me the answer if you prefer.

[hawkfeather]

I got invloved when i was younger.. there is not a program like that where i live now asdly.

BUt i rememebr hookign up thru a support network for victims of AIDS. BUt iknow you cuold contact a local PFLAG group as well.. or local high schools.

I am sorry to hear abtou yout freind...hopefully they are healthy and happy now!

pardon my NAK typing.

[acystay]

:

Originally Posted by hawkfeather

This was just a thought- after reading a therad that included comments about large breasted women.

How much do you think a mother's "looks" affects people's public attitudes with breastfeeding?

I can say my weigth have been all over the map, and just now i sat and thought about it a bit. I would think like most things when i was overweight i would catch more flack but when i think about my *own* situation it was the opposite, when i was thin people gave me a hard time about nursing. When i had smaller breasts people complained more.

Now i haev no idea if this amounts to anything.. but i have five kids and in my own experince it has been true.

I am just curious to se what others think about this?

I think it speaks a lot to how ridiculous it is when people find fault with public nursing.

[frenchie]

Originally Posted by hawkfeather

I got invloved when i was younger.. there is not a program like that where i live now asdly.

BUt i rememebr hookign up thru a support network for victims of AIDS. BUt iknow you cuold contact a local PFLAG group as well.. or local high schools.

I am sorry to hear abtou yout freind...hopefully they are healthy and happy now!

pardon my NAK typing.

He's happy as a clam living in Alabama with his partner. TOTALLY OT, but he dated a friend of ours for about a year. The whole time they were together, we'd ask him why he was with her, and not out. He'd get so frustrated with us, and swear to us he wasn't gay. We knew he was...and she was in denial. We talked to her about it all the time too. He finally broke up with her, and he came out...at the same time. She was the first person he told. We were all happy for him, and he was relieved. I think he was always more afraid of what his friends would think. I like to think that we encouraged him to come out, by being so supportive before the fact.
I'll look into PFLAG....I think my dh's Aunt might know something about it. I've been wanting to volunteer within the community. Either through Aunt Gail's food bank for AIDS victims, or with youth. I prefer adolescent youth, because they are so impressionable, and in need of support. Thank you for mentioning it, now I have it in my head.

[acystay]

ummm sorry about my funny quoate : and dizzy post! my daughter got on after me (4 years old) and was typing!

[jarynsmom06]

Originally Posted by TigerTail

Yes, all overweight people without easily diagnosable glandular conditions are just choosing a life of fatitude. The soda & chips I see skinny people eating- must be a miracle, not different metabolisms or anything.

(And the morbidly obese people working their arses off at the gym- they are just pigs who won't stop eating, compared to say, my 110 lb dd who eats anything and everything but doesn't exercise.)

I do think that this is a good thread that exhibits the prejudices fat people must face every day. Not poisonous- useful.

I never said that all overweight people chose to be that way nor that the overweight people at the gym were pigs that would not stop eating....sounds like someone is a little bitter....Please don't put words into my mouth..err on my post I guess I should say. I am not predjudice towards fat people, I am not predjudice toward any walk of life....black or white fat or skinny. I was simply stating that those that I know personally and know VERY well that are overweight and complain about it, but don't do anything about it annoy me.Maybe I shouldn't post here anymore because everytime I do, people twist things around and get their panties in a wad over nothing.:

[hawkfeather]

Originally Posted by jarynsmom06

....sounds like someone is a little bitter....

Maybe I shouldn't post here anymore because everytime I do, people twist things around and get their panties in a wad over nothing.:

I don't think you should take things in such a negative light..you are bothered someone twisted your words.. but it will likely always happen where ever you go online.. it is just part of communicating thru typing.

I complain about being overweight. and to some it probably looks like i am doing nothing to remedy the situation. Your comments are a trigger for people because (at least in my perspective) it scares us to think people we might be "VERY close with" would hear our complaints-pain-frustrations and react the same way. Speaking ill of something that is often very painful.

And still no matter how well you know someone, no one knows what is happening in their lives, heads or hearts.

[Nisupulla]

Originally Posted by jarynsmom06

people twist things around and get their panties in a wad over nothing.

"If you are a bf mama you are beautiful whether you weigh 450 lbs or 100 lbs. Be proud of yourself...you made a person and you are nurturing that person...

And I know many women who are large and choose to stay that way. Many of them whine about being overweight all the time but yet they do nothing to resolve it...

My sister for instance...complains about being overweight all the time, however it's nothing for her to eat chips, drink soda and eat sweets all the time. So...yes I do know them well enough to be able to say that or I never would have said it."

I think that anyone who reads the middle paragraph is going to have a strong reaction. Unfortunately for you, the other two paragraphs are in different posts. Generally people don't read carefully (even me, right Hawkfeather?), and can't remember who said what in a PP.

You've added a lot of positive to this thread and a little controversy too.

[DebraBaker]

I'm pretty sure I'm the type that has a layer to protect herself because of some past experiences.

[hawkfeather]

protective layer.. on some level (depsite beign sad you need extra protection) i kind of like the way that sounds..it is pro-active!

I know I have extra weigth rigth now because I am anorexic. And being pregnant with my last child was a struggle for me.. I conciously tacked on *extra* weight so that I could nurse in a healthy manner.
so it is probbly a few extra layers.. to [protect me and my baby..


And Nisupulla I do agree we do not all read carefully or keep tabs of every opinion in lengthy threads..
It always makes me a little sad when someoen says something that may be hurtful to another but rather than just hear those who are hurt and be accountable just get angry. But i also agree that pretty much every mother here has added positivity to this thread!!!!!!!!!!..