mother's "looks" and how she is treated... - Page 5

[Apwannabe]

I think you all should lay off FRENCHIE. She clearly did not intend to offend anyone or hurt their feelings. No one seemed to care that her husband is supportive of nursing, just that he was grossed out at the woman's rolls....Who cares? A man is a man no matter how supportive he is of NIP or BF in general. His reaction was normal in my opinion, as a matter of fact most of your husbands, partners or boyfriends would probably have felt the same way, they just may not have voiced it to you. She even stated in her post that he didn't look away because he didn't want her to feel uncomfortable... good for him.

Why is everyone so uptight about everything these days. You have to censor everything you say and know everything you think.
I'm guessing I am about 40lbs or so overwieght I'm sure there are people grossed out by my rolls. Tough crap for them. I honestly can't believe there are 4 pages arguing about this.

Frenchie - My husband would have reacted the same exact way. (hopefully he doesn't when I left my shirt to nurse ) I think what he did by not looking away far outweighs the fact that he was grossed out for a second. Good for him.

[@}-`-}-,-'- )O(]

: This thread should be locked. It's poisonous. :

[jarynsmom06]

Originally Posted by hawkfeather

All I am saying is that comparing being discriminated against for having tattoos and comparing being treated poorly for being overweight makes little sense to me.

I guess I don't understand how Frenchie's dhs' reaction to some rolls was treating her poorly or discriminating against her. And I know many women who are large and choose to stay that way. Many of them whine about being overweight all the time but yet they do nothing to resolve it.

[stockingup99]

@}-`-}-,-'- )O(

You may be new here. This is a support forum. We discuss things to learn. We try not to censor other people's feelings.

Frenchie

thank you for sharing a difficult story, and taking the flack. His response was entirely appropriate, not mentioning it until later. Very civilized.

Tattoos and weight, interesting.

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by Autumnschild

SO...my point is (yes I have a point) is that maybe a woman who is self-conscious about her size or breast size, whether large or small, would be more likely to bring attention to herself because people can sense her discomfort.

ITA. I know I draw attention to myself by my behavior.

Personally, I am still too self-conscious about NIP. When my son was first born, I was so self-conscious that I would have to run out to the car to nurse if we were in the car. I have grown up in a culture and family where breasts are sexual objects to be covered, no matter the circumstance. Lewdness is a sin! Slowly I have been able to try and overcome mental and emotional barriers. Now, however, I have the added "discomfort" of extended nursing. I feel that the looks I receive now are more because I have a 15 month old toddler.

I don't think my looks have anything to do with how people perceive me, but who knows.

[thismama]

Hawkfeather, I am really loving your posts about weight and body image on this thread. Thank you.

[hawkfeather]

Originally Posted by jarynsmom06

I guess I don't understand how Frenchie's dhs' reaction to some rolls was treating her poorly or discriminating against her. And I know many women who are large and choose to stay that way. Many of them whine about being overweight all the time but yet they do nothing to resolve it.

-i might be wrong but i do not recall saying anyone's dh was being discriminatory.. i said i don't think you can compare being discriminated against for wieght or tattoos..

-& thanx this mama.

-and while i agre that there has been some negative energy in this thread.. saying it is poisonous simply adds to the negativity.

i think everyone's feelings here are valid.

[Nisupulla]

Originally Posted by hawkfeather

-i might be wrong but i do not recall saying anyone's dh was being discriminatory..

I just can't see these two quotes as anything other than "having a negative reaction to someone's body is the same as being racist, etc."

1) "Although is may seem reasonable to you to be 'grossed out' by the form of another person's body... but it's no more reasonable than being 'grossed out' by the color of someone's skin."

2) "Misogyny, homophobia, and racism all have strong elements of disgust to them. You know, 'women are dirty,' 'gays are diseased,' that kind of thing."

Do you read them differently, Hawkfeather?

[TigerTail]

Originally Posted by jarynsmom06

And I know many women who are large and choose to stay that way. Many of them whine about being overweight all the time but yet they do nothing to resolve it.

I find this attitude more annoying than a man's simple honest gut reaction of 'ack!', & yet making the kind & moral decision not to make her feel uncomfortable.

I had a friend at playgroup nurse pretty 'indiscreetly' once, & the sight of loose boob hitting air made me initially go 'ack!' myself- me; nudist, lifelong lactivist, ebf'r- 'ack'. You can't blame someone for 'ack'. 'Ack' is involuntary. I repressed my 'ack', knowing that it was my problem, not hers, as did Frenchie's dh.

Now, making the judgment that someone is 'choosing' to be overweight... (especially without intimate knowledge- if you heard me mildly bitch in the dressing room about not fitting into a size 12 at bcbg max azaria, does that mean that I am 'doing nothing to resolve it', or that I am not doing my best to be healthy and have a healthy body image? How do you know? I dare say that if you are making this kind of judgement you are not that close to them, not enough to judge their motivation or lifestyle.)

As one of those lifelong ectomorphs constantly told that they needed to eat or they were going to 'blow away', all I can say is wait. Metabolisms can be so changeable.

PS Another tatted pierced person here not getting the 'have to' be tatooed thing. It was a choice in the way my fat abdomen is most certainly not. Feeling like it is an integral choice that helps me be me, is not at all comparable to having a body type that tends to keep fat around my belly (were it a choice, I would definitely take a fat arse Seriously, pear-shaped over apple is much healthier for women).

[jarynsmom06]

Originally Posted by TigerTail

I find this attitude more annoying than a man's simple honest gut reaction of 'ack!', & yet making the kind & moral decision not to make her feel uncomfortable.

I had a friend at playgroup nurse pretty 'indiscreetly' once, & the sight of loose boob hitting air made me initially go 'ack!' myself- me; nudist, lifelong lactivist, ebf'r- 'ack'. You can't blame someone for 'ack'. 'Ack' is involuntary. I repressed my 'ack', knowing that it was my problem, not hers, as did Frenchie's dh.

Now, making the judgment that someone is 'choosing' to be overweight... (especially without intimate knowledge- if you heard me mildly bitch in the dressing room about not fitting into a size 12 at bcbg max azaria, does that mean that I am 'doing nothing to resolve it', or that I am not doing my best to be healthy and have a healthy body image? How do you know? I dare say that if you are making this kind of judgement you are not that close to them, not enough to judge their motivation or lifestyle.)

As one of those lifelong ectomorphs constantly told that they needed to eat or they were going to 'blow away', all I can say is wait. Metabolisms can be so changeable.

The comment I made is not and "attitude" toward anything, it's fact. My sister for instance...complains about being overweight all the time, however it's nothing for her to eat chips, drink soda and eat sweets all the time. So...yes I do know them well enough to be able to say that or I never would have said it. I do know there are women who have thyroid problems and do try and try to lose the weight. I am not that cold hearted to say " you are fat and won't do anything about it so that's your fault". So maybe you should get all the facts before you "dare say" or assume anything.

[TigerTail]

Yes, all overweight people without easily diagnosable glandular conditions are just choosing a life of fatitude. The soda & chips I see skinny people eating- must be a miracle, not different metabolisms or anything.

(And the morbidly obese people working their arses off at the gym- they are just pigs who won't stop eating, compared to say, my 110 lb dd who eats anything and everything but doesn't exercise.)

I do think that this is a good thread that exhibits the prejudices fat people must face every day. Not poisonous- useful.

[hawkfeather]

Originally Posted by Nisupulla

I just can't see these two quotes as anything other than "having a negative reaction to someone's body is the same as being racist, etc."

1) "Although is may seem reasonable to you to be 'grossed out' by the form of another person's body... but it's no more reasonable than being 'grossed out' by the color of someone's skin."

2) "Misogyny, homophobia, and racism all have strong elements of disgust to them. You know, 'women are dirty,' 'gays are diseased,' that kind of thing."

Do you read them differently, Hawkfeather?

I am sorry momma- I honeslty read your post a fair few times and I am not sure what you are asking.

I only said that *I* did not say anyone's husband was being discrimnatory..not that it had not been said. Because it obviously has been. There was a post and a quote of mine used in one of the lay off frencie posts.

But really my quote only said i do not think you can compare being discrimnated againt for having tattoos with being discriminated against for being overweight.

And even that was not a comment about anyone's dh but rather about sentiment's expressed in this thread.

[hawkfeather]

Originally Posted by jarynsmom06

The comment I made is not and "attitude" toward anything, it's fact. My sister for instance...complains about being overweight all the time, however it's nothing for her to eat chips, drink soda and eat sweets all the time. So...yes I do know them well enough to be able to say that or I never would have said it. I do know there are women who have thyroid problems and do try and try to lose the weight. I am not that cold hearted to say " you are fat and won't do anything about it so that's your fault". So maybe you should get all the facts before you "dare say" or assume anything.

People tend to associate *problem* eating with being very thin. While studies show must disordered eating manifests as comfort eating and over eating.

I am not saying your sister has an eating disorder, but no matter how well you know someone you never know, and the exact scenerio you described could easily fit to any mother reading this, or mothers anywhere who have a serious disease that affects the way the perceive nourishing themselves.

i do think it would be cold hearted to say words like this to your sister, and i wasn't clear weather that is your actual opinion or not. But while you say it is not an *attitude* it is still a public opinion expressed that will impact those who read it.

If you know "many" women who are overweight, who complain about it, but do "nothing" to resolve it.. and none of them have a pre existing medical issue, including an eating disorder you are lucky. really.

And while i have faith that you are loving and supportive when comunicating with the "many" you know...even words like this here add to a very common and very negative sentiment about weight and women.

[jarynsmom06]

First off, I have nothing against women who are overweight and I would never say anything to hurt someone's feelings. My sister is a whole different story, but no she doesn't have an eating disorder. She and I are made a lot alike and we both have always been able to eat whatever we wanted when we were active, but since she had her daughter 5 years ago, she has done nothing but complain about her weight, yet she will go to a Japanese rest. and eat their shrimp sauce full of calories...2 or 3 times a week. I am not trying to offend anyone at all. I was simply stating that...If you are overweight and you have a problem with it AND you are able to do something about it, meaning you have the time to exercise...blah blah blah Then do it, otherwise don't complain and I think it is great that there are overweight women that are comfortable with it, minus they may have health problems, but hey that's their life and health. I worked with a woman once that weighed about 300 lbs and she would straight up tell you that she was beautiful...and she was, her attitude made it even better. So, please..no one be offended, because that is not what I was trying to do, besides, I think this Thread went a little off topic and I apoligize if it was my fault.

[hawkfeather]

Originally Posted by jarynsmom06

First off, I have nothing against women who are overweight and I would never say anything to hurt someone's feelings. My sister is a whole different story, but no she doesn't have an eating disorder. She and I are made a lot alike and we both have always been able to eat whatever we wanted when we were active, but since she had her daughter 5 years ago, she has done nothing but complain about her weight, yet she will go to a Japanese rest. and eat their shrimp sauce full of calories...2 or 3 times a week. I am not trying to offend anyone at all. I was simply stating that...If you are overweight and you have a problem with it AND you are able to do something about it, meaning you have the time to exercise...blah blah blah Then do it, otherwise don't complain and I think it is great that there are overweight women that are comfortable with it, minus they may have health problems, but hey that's their life and health. I worked with a woman once that weighed about 300 lbs and she would straight up tell you that she was beautiful...and she was, her attitude made it even better. So, please..no one be offended, because that is not what I was trying to do, besides, I think this Thread went a little off topic and I apoligize if it was my fault.

it is not your fault it went off topic what so ever.. it has a lot already..

Please do not think I am implying you are mean or offensive. Because I don't, but i do think a lot of people are misinformed about what an eating disroder looks like. And while I do nto know your sister at all, disordered eating for many really just looks like eating more than they should and than feeling awful about it. and most peopel have no idea it is an illness or that the themselves even have it. So while you know your sister, you still could be describing a hurtful situation to any reader or woman.

My point was really that saying *if you don't have an issue*.. don't complain and do it could be in-sensative because you have no idea who has disordered eating issues and who does not. It is a tone that is beyond common that perpetuates the idea that people are lazy. When really a lot of people suffer in silence.

[Nisupulla]

Originally Posted by hawkfeather

I only said that *I* did not say anyone's husband was being discrimnatory..not that it had not been said. Because it obviously has been.

OOOh, thanks for clearing that up. I read the word "saying" as "seeing". Thanks for taking the time to answer, in spite of the fact that I misread your post.

[frenchie]

I know I said I would stay out of this thread, but I really wanted to clarify a statement I made in a previous post.

The question that was posed to me was quite simple..."How would you feel knowing that people were "skeeved" at the sight of you minding your own business, going about your daily tasks?"

In my response, I never compared discrimination against being overweight, to discrimination of being tattooed. However, IMO discrimination is discrimination, no matter how you slice it and dice it. It shouldn't matter if I made a choice to be covered in tattoos, that does NOT give a person license to discriminate against me. I knew when I got my first tattoo, that I was identifying myself with a sub-culture that is not necessarily looked upon with grace. I don't care about the looks I get, the clutching of purses, the following me around the store because I look like a person who might shoplift, the bringing your child close...as if I'm going to...what? what am I going to do? It's the backhanded comments and the outright insults.
The fact is, it hurts all the same. Here I am minding my own business, and I have some stranger barking at me that I have ruined my body, that I look hideous, and that I must be an attention starved young lady to do something so ridiculous.

Perhaps a more credible example for y'all would be this. I worked with a lady at my old salon who was pushing 375lbs. when she decided to get gastric bypass surgery. At that time, I weighed 115lbs, had a 24" waist and I'm 5'5". For 3 years, until I finally decided to move my business elsewhere, I was harassed by her almost daily. Her favorite "compliment" (as she called it) was to call me anorexic. Knowing I was vegan, she'd tell me I needed to eat a steak, or she'd offer to buy me a Big Mac and supersize fries...then laugh as she walked away. In her opinion, I could "afford" to eat junk. She called me gaunt, said I looked tired, asked me constantly if I was getting enough sleep. She was "afraid" to touch me, as she said she might break me. The list is endless. The turth is, I danced (lindy hop) 5 days a week, I ate like a horse and I had more energy than I could handle. Dancing was my release.
I would sit in the bathroom at work and bawl. It was tiring, hurtful and depressing (I'm manic). I never once said anything about her weight to her face, or behind her back. I pitied her. As much as I disliked her, I made sure to be supportive of her decision to get surgery. I always told her how great she looked as she was losing weight...but she continued with her nasty comments to me, even after I told her how hurtful they were.
I also had to endure backhanded comments from other co-workers, family and strangers, about my weight.

So in closing, my answer is yes...yes I know exactly how it feels to have people skeeved by my appearance while minding my own business and going about my daily tasks. Again...I am who I am, and I'm not changing for anybody.

[hawkfeather]

i do not think it was saith that you didn't know what is is like to be discriminated against, and no one at all said that people with tattoos are NOT discriminated against.
And yes discrimination is discrimination, it all hurts.

In the same manner that i would differentiate discrimination against a person of colour from discrimination because you have blue hair. Certainly both are widely judged, but i would still not say one can relate to the other.

It is a shame that anyone would act so cruel about your body shape- but to be frank i think some might have read your original comments relating being judged by your tattoos- as some how saying it is okay to make comments that may hurt the overweight because you can relate.

knowing that you know what it feels like to disgust another wont make it any easier to hear by those who take offence.

[frenchie]

i do not think it was saith that you didn't know what is is like to be discriminated against, and no one at all said that people with tattoos are NOT discriminated against.
And yes discrimination is discrimination, it all hurts.
Well, I didn't take it that way...I was just answering the question as it was posed to me....and then somehow my post was turned into a comparison of discriminations. I simply answered, a simply asked question.

In the same manner that i would differentiate discrimination against a person of colour from discrimination because you have blue hair. Certainly both are widely judged, but i would still not say one can relate to the other.
I understand, and I agree with the underlying point you are making. However, the sentiment behind discrimination is the same. The effect is the same. That's what I'm trying to point out.

It is a shame that anyone would act so cruel about your body shape- but to be frank i think some might have read your original comments relating being judged by your tattoos- as some how saying it is okay to make comments that may hurt the overweight because you can relate.
Going back and reading my posts, I really think that's a stretch, but I HOPE nobody took my post that way. If anybody took it that way PLEASE, let me make this clear right now....I do not believe discrimination against anybody, for any reason is OK, no matter how much one can relate to the other.

[Nisupulla]

Originally Posted by jarynsmom06

I guess I don't understand how Frenchie's dhs' reaction to some rolls was treating her poorly or discriminating against her.

ITA

And I know many women who are large and choose to stay that way.

This made me think of the time my son was evaluated for Prader-Willi syndrome. Fortunately for us, he does not have it. But I view obesity differently now.

“Why do people who have PWS eat so much?

People with PWS have a flaw in the part of their brain (the hypothalamus) that determines hunger and satiety (fullness). These people never feel full enough, so they have a continuous urge to eat. To compound this problem, people with PWS need considerably fewer calories than normal to maintain an appropriate weight. The obesity that results is the major cause of illness and death in this disorder. As in the general population, obesity in PWS can cause high blood pressure, respiratory difficulties, diabetes and other problems.

Can anything be done to control the eating?

Unfortunately, no appetite suppressant has worked consistently for people with PWS. Most must be on an extremely low-calorie diet all their lives and must have their environment designed so that they have very limited access to food.”
http://www.thearc.org/faqs/pwsynd.html

Many of them whine about being overweight all the time but yet they do nothing to resolve it.

This made me think of a long lost friend. She was overweight and I have a cluttered house. She joined Weight Watchers and when she worked at it, could lose the weight. I never do seem to get the clutter under control. I whine about it all the time. I always think of the two issues (weight and clutter) as related, for me and my friend our chosen vise is how we deal with difficult emotions. She cleans and eats. I escape. But she never bought into the fact that de-cluttering is emotionally hard for me just as not eating was hard for her. She judged me for complaining all the time without doing anything.