What to tell ped? - Page 2

[hawkfeather]

I dunno it really bothers me when doctors use personal informatin to try to school theri patients. It is HER opinion you should nurse less, not a medical opinion. HAs she ever told you why she thinks that, what medical evidence or literature she is basing this recomendation on.

[merrick]

Originally Posted by Ammaarah

I would be honest...you feed on demand. If she gives you any crap, just say you are a firm believer in "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." And if you do decide to switch pedis, maybe you could get a recommendation for one in your Tribal Area here or at La Leche League.

Yeah, it would be great if I could get a reccomendation. Unfortunately we don't have a LLL here and the Tribal Area is where I got the rec for this ped! There are only a few MDC mamas in my area.

[shoefairy3]

Heck...I can barely make it 3 - 4 hours with out atleast a snack

[grumpyshoegirl]

Ask her for evidence. Documented studies that say that putting a BF baby on a 3-4 hour schedule is better for both of you. If she gives you one of those notorious handouts ask her where the handout came from-- Similac???

[dynamohumm6]

Originally Posted by aisraeltax

i think i would be confrontational on this one, b/c as you said, if he is giving this information out to new moms who may be more impressionable.
i think you said it was a she though...
i would simply take the statement to your new appt. and give it to her and say "im really concerned, b/c i KNOW that what you said was wrong...but other new moms may not, and i fear you may be giving BAD advice". but thats just ME and i can be a *itch sometimes (surprise! surprise!).

ditto, that's the approach I would take, too. this dr is just giving out bad advice.

[dynamohumm6]

Originally Posted by grumpyshoegirl

Ask her for evidence. Documented studies that say that putting a BF baby on a 3-4 hour schedule is better for both of you. If she gives you one of those notorious handouts ask her where the handout came from-- Similac???

oooh, I like this, too.
the info will either be formula info or grossly outdated. either way, you win.

[speairson]

I have to agree that you should say something. When dd was a tiny baby (before I found MDC ) my ped said the same thing. He also told me it was okay to let my 5 week old CIO : That one was a no brainer though. About the bfing part I tried to do the whole schedule thing and it was awful It only lasted about a week, but it was a horrible week. I then decided to heck with his advice and followed my intuition.

Anyway, you may not change her mind, but wouldn't it be great if you did.

[kyndmamaof4]

haven't read all of the posts, BUT that was the advice that my first ped gave us in the hospital, after the birth of my first baby, and it lead to the downfall of our bf relationship. Really it is such a shame, but I was only 19, and only knew, what I read in What to expect...so much guilt, but found out better with later kids, and successful ever since

[jeanine123]

How about this

Examining the evidence for cue feeding

Or this

AAP bfing policy #3 under recommended practices pertains to you.

[BlueStateMama]

My first ped (and the entire staff) was woefully uneducated on BFing, asking me questions like, "How many ounces does he take??" (Yeah, um, there's no meter on my breasts...) It drove the nurses nuts that I couldn't estimate his intake.

I have a much better doc now who was telling me from the first appointment on, "You can't overfeed a breastfed baby - feed her on her cues" etc (talk about preaching to the choir!! )

I hope you get through to them!

[BlueStateMama]

oops - double post!

[mamaverdi]

I would take this approach: How much do you know about inborn errors of metabolism? Were you aware that in common disorders like fatty acid oxidation disorders that breastfeeding has been shown to be protective: not just because of the qualities of the milk but because of the biologically appropriate behaviors? Urea cycle disorders are delayed by breastfeeding, again, behaviors as well as milk contents. The list goes on and on: diabetes, diabetes insipidus, sickle cell anemia. Even in PKU partial breastfeeding has been shown to increase IQs of babies with this disorder.

Also doc, how familiar are you with kidney transplantation? Were you aware that breastfeeding for as long as possible helps prevent UTIs in both the mother and the baby. Again, behaviors (cue feeding) as well as substance of the milk contribute to this.

Surely you want me to have the healthiest possible child because while I like you, I really don't want to be in here all the time.


Btw, you have now met someone (me) who has children whose lives were literally saved by breastfeeding (behaviors as well as breastmilk).

mv

[1Plus2]

Originally Posted by firstkid4me

I'm ready to ask him exactly how much of his 8 years of schooling was spent learning about breastfeeding. When he says none, I'll just wink and say, "Well, I have 18 months on you, so I'm not sure you're really prepared to be giving ME advice on this particular subject, now are you?"

laughup

I love it!!!!

[blsilva]

I'll tell you honestly that I have switched from a non bf-friendly ped to a very bf-friendly one- he even took my tandem nursing in stride. But when he & I disagree- it happens, even with great doctors- I just tell him that his way is not my way, and that's the end of it. I am pretty lucky in that I have a ped who sometimes reminds me that I'm the mom, and its my decision to make. But I am ready to remind him of that very thing when I need to.

[moonfirefaery]

That is BS, you need to switch peds. You know, the Ezzos recommend that, and there has been loads of evidence that does NOT support it. There have been lots of organizations to denounce their work. Babies eat when they are hungry; they know when it's time, and they tell you. If you feed every 3-4 hours your baby can be underweight, exhausted from crying, dehydrated, and develope severe problems--even depression! Your ped is SERIOUSLY undereducated. I promise you can find a much better pediatrician than this guy. Sometimes you have to just keep ped hopping until you find the bed one. Try to find a pro natural/attachment parenting ped. Check online, in the phone book. Call them up and ask about their opinions.

[Sustainer]

Originally Posted by merrick

This all just came out of left field and I was not ready for it! I actually switched to her from a ped that was woefully ignorant about breastfeeding. I was told that she was very bf friendly and good with kids. At our first visits she was great! Very supportive of bf. Talked about not giving pacifiers or supplements and to bf on demand. She also bf her own kids, although I don't know for how long. She didn't even bat an eye when I told her ds still nursed. Then all of a sudden it was this 3-4 hour stuff!

It's almost like the formula companies kidnap the bf-friendly doctors and brainwash them, isn't it?

Originally Posted by merrick

ebf is only for third world countries type thing and ds HAS to have whole milk

Don't you just love this one? Human milk that a child's own mother makes won't do him any good, but it is vital that he drink the milk that a cow makes for her little cow! :


Anyway, I would just give her the portion of the AAP statement that discusses feeding on cue vs. feeding on schedule. In my opinion that's what most doctors would be most likely to actually read and most likely to actually take seriously. Good luck!

[lyttlewon]

Originally Posted by merrick

I'm trying to decide how to handle dd's next ped appt. The last two times we've gone she has told me that I need to be nursing dd only every 3-4 hours. She says it's better for her and better for me. Ok, you know, I get how it could be better for me, but how the heck is it better for a hungry baby to wait to eat because of some arbitrary schedule?

The last couple of times I haven't really said anything. But I know she's going to bring it up again. I haven't decided if I'm just going to kind of smile and nod like I have before, or if I'm going to actually challenge her. I know what she's saying is wrong. I am not going to put my dd on a feeding schedule. She's only 3 months old now! The ped starting saying this at her 1 month checkup! And I hate the thought that she's giving this advice out to new impressionable moms who might not know how bad this advice is.

If I do challenge her on this, I'd want to have backup. So if anybody has any info on why scheduling is bad for young infants or advice on how to handle this situation I'd appreciate it.

Why do you need to give her anything? She is the doctor she should be the one using factual based evidence to convince YOU. I would tell her until she finds such evidence you have nothing to discuss.

[Ammaarah]

Originally Posted by merrick

Yeah, it would be great if I could get a reccomendation. Unfortunately we don't have a LLL here and the Tribal Area is where I got the rec for this ped! There are only a few MDC mamas in my area.

Aw, crumb! Well, then it is your duty to educate her!

[Momtwice]

Originally Posted by kyndmamaof4

haven't read all of the posts, BUT that was the advice that my first ped gave us in the hospital, after the birth of my first baby, and it lead to the downfall of our bf relationship. Really it is such a shame, but I was only 19, and only knew, what I read in What to expect...so much guilt, but found out better with later kids, and successful ever since

I had a similar experience with bad advice.

[monkeys4mama]

Originally Posted by Susuhound

OK your ped seriously neds some updated education. peter Hartmann is THE guru of breastfeeding reseach. see this paper...

http://www.biochem.biomedchem.uwa.ed...rrent_research

basically the time between feedings can ONLY be regulated by the individual mother and baby physiological pair.

Daly et al. (1993b) used the CBM system to measure the changes in breast volume of seven breastfeeding mothers over each breastfeed during a 24 h period. From these measurements they could determine the maximum and minimum volume of the breast over the 24 h period, the storage capacity of each breast (maximum-minimum breast volume), the degree of emptying of the breast, before and after each breastfeed, and the short-term rates of milk synthesis. They found that the storage capacity of the breasts ranged from 80 to 600 mL. The breast was not necessarily completely emptied at each breastfeed (Mother A; Fig. 8), indicating that the infants regulated their milk intake presumably according to their appetite. Daly et al. (1993b) suggested that the storage capacity of the breast influenced the frequency of breastfeeding. Compared to mother A, mother B had a much smaller storage capacity and her infant nursed more frequently. By more frequent breastfeeding this infant was able to obtain at least as much milk as the infant of mother A (956 vs 896 mL/24 h, respectively).

Wow, that is really interesting information. I'm so glad to know there are good studies being done to help us understand these things. I think that prolly sheds a lot of light on individual differences in babies' nursing patterns.

I wonder if there's any difference from baby to baby for the mom? Ykwim? I noticed that my first child nursed a whole lot longer and more frequently than my subsequent ones. But with all the others (#2,3,4) I was tandem nursing, so presumably my milk supply was a lot greater due to nursing two. If I fed the newborn first, then he/she prolly got a lot more milk per feeding and didn't need to feed as many times or as long per feed. Do you suppose? I always sortof assumed that was so. This research would certainly suggest similar.

I wonder also, if there's anything a mom can do to increase the storage capacity of her breasts or if any factors in the early stages affect that (like moms being allowed to have babies co-sleep and nursing on demand, etc)?

Oh, the possibilities for studies are endless.

About the ped, I'd take a friendly and curious attitude, as in "Gee, do you think so? I know you've said that before, but I haven't been able to find any information on the benefits of spacing feedings, other than convenience for the mother. The things I've read in ________ (name your sources) all say that babies should be fed on demand and that their needs will vary (even cite this study). I'd really be interested in any literature or references you might have about this..."