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So I have some major decisions to make... - Page 2

post #21 of 37
8/14/06 at 6:11pm
Hmmm, I don't know enough about all the different laws but that doesn't seem right to me. If you needed surgery no one would help? I hope others here know more and can give you advice.

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post #22 of 37
8/14/06 at 6:24pm
Thread Starter 
I'm hoping that's just a scare tactic answer. I would hate to see someone actually have a UR and no OB to help because they didn't come in for a scheduled c-section. The medical community is seriously making me sick right now.
post #23 of 37
8/14/06 at 6:33pm
This might be a different perspective and help not to hate your OB.

This is not meant to defend the lack of support for VBAC, which I think is grotesque and completely unsupported by research.

This is your pregnancy, and is such extremely important to you. Your OB has many pregnant patients and will have work with his OB colleagues for years after your pregnancy is over and done with. Do i think it's right? No, but these are colleagues he'll need favors from, backup from if he's sued, coverage in emergencies, etc. These are not people he's necessarily willing to piss off in order to get one patient the birth she wants. This doesn't mean you're not important, but that the issue is bigger than any one person.
post #24 of 37
8/14/06 at 9:48pm
I really encourage you to talk with your OB directly. This is so outrageous. Isn't it be unethical for other docs to refuse to act as backups?
post #25 of 37
8/15/06 at 12:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovinmy2babies+1
I emailed back and asked if they were aware of the ACOG guidelines and the newest studies. Her response was that if I needed surgery, no other OB's would back up an OB that allowed me to labor. So in other words, if they let me labor and I had a UR, no other OB would assist them in helping with surgery...
Ok...first of all EMTLA says they have to treat you - regardless. Secondly, it's your baby, your body, your birth. NO ONE is "allowing" you to do anything. You're "allowing" them to assist you. You are paying them for their service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmama
No, but these are colleagues he'll need favors from, backup from if he's sued, coverage in emergencies, etc. These are not people he's necessarily willing to piss off in order to get one patient the birth she wants
This is absolutely none of your concern. Those are his issues and not yours. Since when did the needs/wants/wishes of the doctor supersede the rights of the patient?

First and foremost before even considering what you should do regarding your cp, you need to become well versed in your LEGAL RIGHTS. There are lots of sites out there that can help you do that. One place you can go is www.ican-online.org. There you can find out information, not only on your legal rights, but also on what to do if you are being denied your right to a VBAC. You can also use ICAN's site to see if there is a local chapter in your area. They may have some suggestions/resources available that you may not be aware of. You may also want to consider signing up for the ICAN email list. It's a FANTASTIC source of informartion - both on your options, on the current research, and on your legal rights.

FIGHT Mama!! You can do this and you can birth your baby!
post #26 of 37
8/15/06 at 1:01am
Can you go to another practice or deliver in another hospital? If you look on Feb DDC there is a doula that has posted saying that she may be able to help hook people up with a free doula. Don't give up! My midwife took payments and we were very financially stressed at the time but somehow we managed. Some might also barter with you? Good luck!
post #27 of 37
8/15/06 at 2:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamered_mom
This is absolutely none of your concern. Those are his issues and not yours. Since when did the needs/wants/wishes of the doctor supersede the rights of the patient?
When seeking health care, then you have to recognize that it's also just a business, and like any business, has its own culture and its own needs. In an ideal world, sure, doctors would be concerned only with the patient, yada yada yada, but this is the real world, and you will always get further in a compromise by recognizing that the other side also has needs they're trying to meet.
post #28 of 37
8/15/06 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmama
Your OB ... will have work with his OB colleagues for years after your pregnancy is over and done with. Do i think it's right? No, but these are colleagues he'll need favors from, backup from if he's sued, coverage in emergencies, etc. These are not people he's necessarily willing to piss off in order to get one patient the birth she wants.
What I am not getting here is why and OB supporting a mother's choice to go into labor should "piss off" any other OBs???? That's a difference of professional opinion, not a reason for negative personal emotions between colleagues.
post #29 of 37
8/15/06 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by aran
What I am not getting here is why and OB supporting a mother's choice to go into labor should "piss off" any other OBs???? That's a difference of professional opinion, not a reason for negative personal emotions between colleagues.
It's how docs are. I don't know if it's because that's how they're trained or more about the kind of people who become docs. Most OBs would see their partner/colleague as putting them and their livelihood at risk by doing so, and their way to "punish" him would be to be unavailable should he need them in the future.
post #30 of 37
8/15/06 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmama
When seeking health care, then you have to recognize that it's also just a business, and like any business, has its own culture and its own needs. In an ideal world, sure, doctors would be concerned only with the patient, yada yada yada, but this is the real world, and you will always get further in a compromise by recognizing that the other side also has needs they're trying to meet.
Your right...it is a business and they do have their own personal interests in mind. That's the point! It'd be nice if they all stopped acting like they were some unbiased benevolent servant. It'd be nice once and awhile if they stopped hiding behind bogus statements and actually admit "I don't want to attend your VBAC because I'm afraid that my malpractice insurance rates will go up" or "I don't want to attend your VBAC because it will be detrimental to my future practice". Instead they try and scare you into complying or coerce you into complying often times by presenting only the information they think you need in order to make the decision they think you should make. That's not informed consent.

Just for once I'd like the "birth professionals" to admit that when they make decisions it's often less about the mother, her baby, or the body of research and more about their own personal needs and wants.

You can't diminsh the fact either, that in a business transaction there are two parties involved. It's not just the doctors that can make all the demands and expect that the patient will blindly and willingly follow. It's not the pregnant mother's job to make the jobs of the doctors, nurses, or hospitals easier - plain and simple. If the doctor doesn't want to attend VBACS or doesn't want to deal with the uncertainty involved in obstetrical practice, don't become an obstetrician.

As pregnant and laboring women we have already made far too many concessions and compromises - it's what got us to this astronomical c/s rate and difficulties in VBACs. I think we'd do much better if the other side started making more compromises and concessions and stop acting like they alone made decisions on who will and will not go into labor and how long or how short that labor will be. We'd all be served better by our medical communities if we stopped elevating them to the level of deity and all that implies.
post #31 of 37
8/15/06 at 12:39pm
I am so sorry you are having so much trouble. By the way, I think that is BS -- once you're in the hospital in labor, they can't refuse you service -- they are basically stuck with you, but what they can do is schedule you for a c-section at 38 1/2 weeks to make sure you don't go into labor or pull the dead baby card once you get there. Check out the thread down the line called 50 ways to protest a VBAC denial. They offer some helpful suggestions. Like everyone said, healthcare is a business, and maybe if we show that we are not going to go quietly, they may be willing to budge. And I agree, maybe you could go once to the far away practitioner just so you can meet him, and then see your regular OB until you go into labor.

Good luck!
Minta
post #32 of 37
8/15/06 at 1:02pm
Thread Starter 
Ok, every business I've worked at in the past was all about "pleasing the customer."

Anyways, thanks for the support. I have alot of thinking to do.
post #33 of 37
8/25/06 at 5:58pm


keep us updated!
post #34 of 37
8/27/06 at 4:36am
*subbing*
post #35 of 37
8/27/06 at 2:06pm
I know in interviewing HBAC midwives, all of them allow you to make payments on your birth. You could ask, and maybe work out a plan that is doable for your family. Also, if you can't find a free doula, try one in training. They charge much less than highly experienced doulas, and have attended births before, just maybe not a VBAC. Blessed be mama. Stay strong. Don't be bullied. Whatever decision that is made, make it because it is yours to make.
post #36 of 37
8/28/06 at 10:26pm
That's just ridiculous. How do they handle all the other birth emergencies -that are way more common than a UR - if they can't deal with a VBAC?

From the ICAN website:

http://www.ican-online.org/resources..._vbacbanqa.pdf

"Q: What can I do to protect myself from being forced into surgery?
A: There are multiple steps you can take to protect yourself:
• Know your rights. Visit www.birthpolicy.org to learn more about the illegal and unethical status VBAC “bans.”
• File a grievance with the Chief Compliance Officer at the hospital where you plan to give birth. Hospitals that attempt to ban VBAC are in violation of the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) Conditions of Participation (CoP), which require all federally funded hospitals (approximately 80%) to honor the rights of patients to be informed of the risks, benefits, and alternatives of all procedures, to refuse any proposed treatment, including cesarean surgery, and to participate in all treatment decisions. To hold your hospital accountable under these regulations, you must first file a complaint with the hospital’s Chief Compliance Officer, who is required to issue a ruling within 60 days. If the CCO rules against you, then you have the right, first, to appeal to the your state CMS office and then to Office of the Inspector General’s Office at the Department of Health and Human Services. If HHS rules against you, then your appeal goes to the Department of Justice, which is authorized to bring litigation against the hospital on your behalf. You can read the CoP regulations by going to the Code of Federal Regulation’s main page at http://www.gpoaccess.gov/cfr/index.html Enter “42CFR482.13” into the search engine, which will bring up all of the CoP regulations on patient rights and filing grievances. To find contact information for your state CMS office, go to http://www.medlaw.com/healthlaw/EMTA...iolation.shtml
• Replace your birth plan with a customized form documenting your refusal to consent. By law, you are not required to sign the hospital’s consent form. You can either customize the hospital’s form or write down your refusal to consent to treatment on any piece of paper and sign it. Put a line through any listed procedure you want to decline and then add the list of routine procedures, including cesarean surgery, you want to refuse, initial each change or addition and make sure you have all the required signatures. Doing so will legally document your refusal to consent and alert staff that you understand and are prepared to protect your rights. In addition, such a document will require staff to obtain direct, verbal consent from you each time they want to do a procedure you've already declined in writing. If possible, pre-register at the hospital no
sooner than thirty days before your due date and take the forms home with you to review, add to, and sign. Be sure to keep personal copies of any forms you sign and ask your partner or doula to record any changes that were made during the course of your labor."
post #37 of 37
8/29/06 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovinmy2babies+1
I emailed back and asked if they were aware of the ACOG guidelines and the newest studies. Her response was that if I needed surgery, no other OB's would back up an OB that allowed me to labor. So in other words, if they let me labor and I had a UR, no other OB would assist them in helping with surgery...
This is illegal. If you are in need of medical care, especially emergency surgery, the OBs and hospital will be in real hot water if they don't help you. My suggestion is to keep with your ob and have maybe 1 or 2 appointments with the more supportive one. Also, definately check out midwives and doulas, these birth friendly care providers are usually very sympathetic and care more about doing their job ie: helping women, than the financial rewards. Also, some of them will take trade; crafts, mending, cooking, childcare. Explore, explore, explore and communicate. I will be keeping my fingers crossed for you.
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Mothering › Mothering Discussion Forums › Pregnancy and Birth › Birth and Beyond › VBAC › So I have some major decisions to make...