QUESTION: Fused Foreskin on my 2 1/2 year old - Page 5

[Jaydens_mom]

no... the head is not fully exposed when the skin is pulled back, you can not see the under ridge of the head... where it curves under like a mushroom ... because the skin is attached before it even gets to that point.

[Revamp]

Hmm...

No exposure of the coronal rim. Right.

Sounds like it has totally readhered, to the extent that a normal intact penis does. I have heard of that happening before, apparently that tends to sort itself out by puberty.

[Jaydens_mom]

see how in this diagram the skin is still loosly circumcised but the head is FULLY revealed when pulled back?
http://www.aboutcirc.com/modcirc.gif

THIS IS NOT WHAT MY SONS PENIS LOOKS LIKE.

The skin is attached just before the head is fully revealed, so the undercurve of the head in UNDER the skin instead of revealed... shmegma gets is under this skin in pockets and is hard to get out...

[Jaydens_mom]

Originally Posted by Revamp

Hmm...

No exposure of the coronal rim. Right.

Sounds like it has totally readhered, to the extent that a normal intact penis does. I have heard of that happening before, apparently that tends to sort itself out by puberty.

This sounds about right, yes.
As long as it is self fixable ( the body does it on its own ) then that is great.. i didn't want it to be an issue for him later on in life when he sees an uncircumcised LOOSE skined penis erect and wonders why his head is not fully visable like that.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by Jaydens_mom

He is perfect.

You messed with his perfection. But you made what you thought was the right decision at the time. Now you know better, and you can make better choices in the future, like leaving what's left of his poor foreskin alone and not re-circumcising him.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by Jaydens_mom

I am not altering my opinion of circumcision. I was NOT informed of the fusing process... however i had full knowledge about loss of sensitivity and etc.. as my cousin and i both had our children in the same month and discussed this (his son is uncut). Sure maybe when he is having sex it will not feel as great as it might for an uncircumcised male, but having always being circumcised how is he to know the difference..

This is a really awful position to take. "I know what I robbed him of, but he won't know." Wow. Just wow.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by Lula's Mom

An intactivist work's is never done...

So, is this what ya'll call intactivism then? Coz to me it looks like ripping a mama apart over something she cannot change. Funny thing, perception.

ETA:

In the lactivist forums there has been much discussion about whether it is really beneficial to rip mamas apart over choices made in the context of much misinformation and lack of support.

It would be nice to see some similar discussion among "intactivists." I think it would do a lot more for the cause than the attacking. All the attacking does IMO is make the attackers feel superior. Which is a fun feeling, but not exactly the altruism people are claiming it is.

To the OP:

I am sorry you are being so brutally attacked, especially when you came here to ask a question.

I think that circumcision is an important issue, and that not cutting is better. But when you know better you do better, right? Every mama makes mistakes, including the mamas on this thread who are being so harsh with their judgments. And ITA that he probably will not know the difference, especially since it sounds like his cut was so loose.

And yes, of course your son is perfect.

[Lact-o-Mama]

???

Jaydens_Mom

I just have a question for you, meant with complete sincerity as I am truly curious:

How did you find out about MDC? We know you're *new* as yesterdays post was your 1st ( and you are now over 40, WOW )

* However wrong or mis-informed everyone feels you were at having your son circ'ed, it was YOU'RE doing and if YOU"RE fine with that, that is truly what matters here. We all do things that might make our *neighbours* cringe.
My sister is due any day now and says with certainty that she will circ' a boy . She is currently witnessing me nurse my 3.5yo and said to me the other day...."I leave you alone about the choices you make, now leave me alone..." Hmmph. I put my foot in my mouth as up until that day I had been sending her a barroge of links on circ's, vidoe clips etc.
If she has a boy, I will have to cry on the shoulders of the Mammas here as my family is pro-circ as yours is.

[thismama]

If the OP is a fake ya'll can look at this as a dry run and maybe talk about how you could respond better next time?

[Lula's Mom]

Originally Posted by thismama

So, is this what ya'll call intactivism then? Coz to me it looks like ripping a mama apart over something she cannot change. Funny thing, perception.

Yes, yes it must be. Because this absolutely is what I call intactivism: gently educating this mama and others. Because she can't change it, she gets a free pass to be ignorant and continue the misinformation she was told? NO FREAKIN' WAY. I have been nothing but kind and gentle to this mama. I like her and I feel that if we can keep the dialogue going, she will come out the other side better for it. I busted my butt giving her information on her son's condition, which cannot and should not be discussed without the addendum that 'hey, circumcision is a bad thing which caused this problem in the first place'. You show me one place that I have been rude or unkind to her! I cannot and would not control what others say, but I have done my very best here. And your perception changes that not one bit.

[AntoninBeGonin]

Originally Posted by thismama

So, is this what ya'll call intactivism then? Coz to me it looks like ripping a mama apart over something she cannot change. Funny thing, perception.

Did you read the entire thread?

~Nay

[Lula's Mom]

Originally Posted by thismama

In the lactivist forums there has been much discussion about whether it is really beneficial to rip mamas apart over choices made in the context of much misinformation and lack of support.

It would be nice to see some similar discussion among "intactivists." I think it would do a lot more for the cause than the attacking. All the attacking does IMO is make the attackers feel superior. Which is a fun feeling, but not exactly the altruism people are claiming it is.

You know what, you don't apparently spend enough time here to know that we did recently have an extremely long thread about this subject. Some people have a more blunt style of writing and layinng out the facts. If you are feeling defensive, laying out the facts can feel like an attack. I do think posters should try to get a feel for the individual OP and tailor their posts to her situation.

Originally Posted by thismama

I think that circumcision is an important issue, and that not cutting is better. But when you know better you do better, right? Every mama makes mistakes, including the mamas on this thread who are being so harsh with their judgments. And ITA that he probably will not know the difference, especially since it sounds like his cut was so loose.

And yes, of course your son is perfect.

It has been expressed many times on this thread that we understand and sympathize with this mama, that she has been misinformed by everyone from her doctor to her entire family (her own mother!) The phrase "when you know better, you do better" was said to her with compassion. The approach you are preaching to us was used here.

Her son was perfect when he was born. He was damaged by a doctor's greed and the misinformation that she believed.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by Lula's Mom

You know what, you don't apparently spend enough time here to know that we did recently have an extremely long thread about this subject.

No, it's true I don't spend enough time here to know that. But, I can tell you honestly that I could not have deduced from this thread that that conversation occurred. And I think that says something.

If you are feeling defensive, laying out the facts can feel like an attack

True. But I'm not feeling defensive, and this seems like an attack to me. Yes the facts were laid out, and that is good. But it could have been done in a more respectful, gentler way. Gawd knows I'm not the queen of gentle myself, but it is a skill that I think is important in activism, especially when talking about something personal.

Her son was perfect when he was born. He was damaged by a doctor's greed and the misinformation that she believed.

I don't know, I think our wounds are part of our perfection.

This mama says she was 17 when her son was born. She was sexually abused in her own childhood, and so has a particular concern about not wanting to deal with her child's penis more than she has to. And she was misinformed that circing would mean less care. Her mama told her circ was the right thing to do.

I wish people here understood better that most of the crappy choices mamas make for our children exist within a context of non-support, misinformation, and even abuse of the mama. Dealing aggressively with the context, and gently with the mama, would better meet our end goals, no?

[Lula's Mom]

Originally Posted by thismama

I wish people here understood better that most of the crappy choices mamas make for our children exist within a context of non-support, misinformation, and even abuse of the mama. Dealing aggressively with the context, and gently with the mama, would better meet our end goals, no?

I ask you again, show me where I did not deal gently with her and consider all of the factors that went into her decision? Go back and read my posts. I told her I understood how she was misinformed- I empathized with her because that's what I used to believe too. I said it's horrible that she was abused- but she needs therapy, her son didn't need a circumcision. I told her she should be angry at the doctor who did this. She is young and impressionable, I get that and I told her so. I've given her hugs and compassion. And yet you quoted me, saying all of this does not sound like good intactivism to you?


You know, I am inclined to agree that in most cases, our scars make us beautiful or 'perfect'. They are a roadmap showing where we've been and what we've lived through. But not with circumcision. There is nothing beautiful in a scar that says "I was strapped into a Circumstraint when I was 1 day old, and had my foreskin ripped from my glans with a blunt probe, then cut with scissors and sliced off with a scalpel, all without anesthesia". There is nothing perfect about that!

[A&A]

Originally Posted by thismama

So, is this what ya'll call intactivism then? Coz to me it looks like ripping a mama apart over something she cannot change. Funny thing, perception.

She could change her attitude. And she could NOT re-circumcise him, as she is considering doing. And she could not circ other sons in the future. So, there are things she could change.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by Lula's Mom

You show me one place that I have been rude or unkind to her!

Just to clarify, I don't remember what you personally did or didn't say. I just saw your comment about "an intactivist's work is never done" in the context of what I perceive to be the attacking tone of this thread, and that is what I responded to.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by A&A

She could change her attitude. And she could NOT re-circumcise him, as she is considering doing. So, there are things she could change.

Yes, and I believe people are more likely to respond to what we are saying when we are respectful.

[Lula's Mom]

What typically happens here is this: there is a question from a new person. Some of us answer it gently. One or two people may be harsher, but not usually.

Then it goes one of two ways, depending on the response of the OP. If she seems like she's getting it, we keep talking and explaining to her. That is how it most often goes here. At the end, she is grateful and we are overjoyed. Search for the thread "Should I not have my nephew circumcised?" You'll see.

On the other hand, if the OP is staunchly defending "her choice" to have her son cut, then some people are going to get upset and start posting harsher things, trying to shake her out of her mentality. It is very hard for an intactivist to hear somebody defend, over and over, the amputation of a newborn's body part. Some of us can keep our emotions in check, some of us have a hard time on some threads. That is what happened here.

[Lula's Mom]

Originally Posted by thismama

Just to clarify, I don't remember what you personally did or didn't say. I just saw your comment about "an intactivist's work is never done" in the context of what I perceive to be the attacking tone of this thread, and that is what I responded to.

Clearly I wrote that considering myself an intactivist, doing the work I consider to be vitally important, in the best way I know how. So if you weren't tallking about me, then don't quote me. You could just as well have made your comments that you found the thread harsh, without making that quote.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by Lula's Mom

On the other hand, if the OP is staunchly defending "her choice" to have her son cut, then some people are going to get upset and start posting harsher things, trying to shake her out of her mentality.

In this case, I don't see the OP staunchly defending her choice. I see her saying, basically 'I won't use the word regret, because I don't regret things I can't change in this life. But if I had another boy, I might make a different choice.' And my perception is that people basically jump all over her, trying to get her to use the word 'regret.' And in the process some very personal, very hurtful things are said that, if I were the OP and new to this site, would send me running in the other direction to tell my friends about the crazies who think circ is torture over on MDC.

It is very hard for an intactivist to hear somebody defend, over and over, the amputation of a newborn's body part. Some of us can keep our emotions in check, some of us have a hard time on some threads. That is what happened here.

Yes, I can understand that. I have a hard time with it too, moreso seeing cut baby boys IRL than hearing about it on the internet. I find it very disturbing, and very sad.

And I have a hard time with my inclination to judge the mama... I am very judgmental by nature, and I need to sort of try to keep it balanced with what I know about why a mama might make that decison for her son. Doesn't mean it's a good decision, but that there are reasons, yk? And addressing the reasons and *respectfully* providing information is the best intactivist strategy, kwim?