Refusing to have BM - affecting behavior & family

[MyLittleWonders]

A little background: ds#1 is 5; a few months ago he has a horrible rash on his bum that really hurt when he'd have a bm. The rash has since healed but he is still scared to go to the bathroom. Inadvertantly, dh and I made the fear worse by letting him know how his system works and how it's going to hurt more if he keeps waiting. (Ds is very logical and verbal; we thought by explaining it to him, he'd be able to logically make the connection with going = less pain.) We have talked with him and apologized for scaring him even more. Over the last 3-4 weeks, the problem has come to where he will wait 3-4 days to go to the bathroom. Then when he goes, it's painful and reinforces his beliefs. Unfortunately, his withholding his bm, for lack of better way to put it, impacts his behavior in an extreme way. The longer he waits the worse he feels and the more intense and hysterical his tantrums become. Here's a brief breakdown of our days:

Day 1: he goes to the bathroom and is in a good mood afterwards because he feels better (and I believe that poop left in the body can have temporary, toxic affects on our system).

Day 2: He's doing pretty good still but slowly starts to feel the urge to go again. When this happens, he lays down to "rest" on the couch until the urge passes. Overall his mood and behavior are fine though.

Day 3: He's getting more uncomfortable and with it, his mood is starting to turn "sour" and he's much less agreeable.

Day 4: He's having a couple tantrums though they are pretty mild and tend to pass without much incident (he'll yell and stomp but won't try to hit/kick, and typically will just get that out and be fine within a couple minutes).

Day 5: It has now turned into almost a living h*ll around here - he is having quite a few tantrums involving yelling, screaming, kicking, hitting, and throwing. Then he'll have times of being totally at peace. His amount of time "resting" has increased considerably. Unfortunately, by this time I am at the end of my rope and tend to be harsh with him (getting quite mad and not being patient/understanding/sympathetic).

Typically days 4 & 5 *greatly* affect the entire family. He spends much time yelling and tantrum'ing, and the overall feeling in the house is negative. I get very frustrated because his refusal to poop is impacting everyone, which I feel is unfair to the rest of us.

We have tried everything we can to make his body have to go, regardless of if he wants - we try to give him ample pear juice each day, spike his drinks with sodium ascorbate (vit. c), magnesium ... he refuses the magnesium now and has stopped wanting much pear juice either. We can't tell him the pear juice is for helping him go to the bathroom because he will refuse to drink it (which is why he's refusing to drink the magnesium).

How do we handle this from a GD pov? How can we help lessen the impact on the rest of the family? Honestly, today (which was day 5), i was ready to hold him on the potty until he went just so we could stop the horrible cycle of behavior. I *know* why he's acting the way he is, but he refuses to let us help and I feel helpless to do anything about the underlying cause of the behavior. Any suggestions or help ... ? I am going out of my mind here.

[claras_mom]

Dried prunes? Or other dried fruit, but prunes are pretty darned effective. Bran muffins or raisin bran. Apples and carrots. Prune juice, if he'll drink it. Probably if you're going to try to keep things "soft" it's better to mix it up so he can't tell what you're up to. And wouldn't that be the goal? Not forcing him to "go" but trying to make sure that his system is so loaded with stool softeners that regardless of when he goes the discomfort isn't there.

I had terrible constipation as a kid, but unlike your ds, it wasn't due to "holding it in;" it was just a natural tendency. I had my fair share of milk of magnesia in those years--which was yucky but was better than the alternatives. I don't really have any good ideas for dealing with the underlying psychological issue.

If he could handle a little science, you could explain to him that the longer the bm stays in the harder it gets, because it loses moisture. So...day 1 (or 2) is like playdough and day five is like, say, playdough with marbles in it, and which would you rather pass?

Random thoughts. I hope something helps.

[familylove]

We faced a similar problem with Ds (4). He also got to the point that he was holding his poop for 4 and 5 days and then experiencing painful movements.

Part of our solution was understanding that DS felt more comfortable going in his undies or a diaper (he would even ask for a diaper when he needed to go.) So we backed off trying to get him to go in the potty and just let it happen in his pants for a couple of weeks. Gross for mommy, but it helped DS feel "safer" about pooping. We then would ask him to sit on the potty while we read books to him. A particularly helpful book that seemed to ease his fears is "Everyone Poops" by Taro Gomi. The first couple of weeks were hit and miss and he would cry when poop started to come out. We just hugged and encouraged him and kept telling him to "let the poop go". It was heartbreaking to watch him struggle and, like you, we tried to explain that holding poop can make things harder for the poop to come out. It just took time and lots of encouragement. He now goes poop every day or two and doesn't have any fears attached to it.

We even considered a children's laxative. We didn't end up using one, but you might ask your pediatrician if that route would be appropriate for you.

Good luck and hang in there!

[angela&avery]

my ds had periods of constipation from when he began pottytraining at around 2 years, 7 months until he was about 3 1/2 or so. He too would hold it for 5+ days. We ended up buying suppositories and gave him those a few times when he was very constipated which helped him to go. We also went through a period of time where we bribed him to go, which worked too. Once he was old enough we too talked to him about how his body works and told him that if he sat on the toilet every night to go poop, his bottom wouldnt be sore after (which was what he would get upset over). From then on we started making him sit every night to go and he would so his bottom wouldnt be sore. We talked to him about how Mommy goes every day and Daddy goes like 3 times a day!! (which he thought was funny). Once he started to go every night (at the same time) per our request he started to become better about going FOR US. He STILL needs to be reminded often to poop, although he will go on his own now and never cries about it anymore. He gets very hyper when he needs to go....and calms right down after he has gone.. ,so thats how it effects him.

Personally, I really think you need to take a step back. Keep him on a very soft poop diet and leave him be. At about day 5 very calmly remind him that if he pooped he might feel better and then just let it go. At 5 years old he already knows this.. and if you keep his diet soft, it shouldnt be too hard. Personally, I figured eventually ds wouldnt be able to hold it anymore if it was soft enough. Before this, hold a mom, dad, child meeting with him and come up with some resolutions. After he has gone poop, that night sit down with him. Ask him what he thinks would help him to go and write down everything he suggests. And you suggest and write down things too.Try to find a solution that he agrees on. Whether its having privacy and some books to look at. A hand held game to play. My ds loves my moms yhatsee game when he poops at her house, and at home he often brings a car or something in with him to hold. You may decide to set an alarm clock for the same time every night and he might be better with knowing that when it goes off its time to go. ( I say night time because for us most mornings are harried and not good pooping atmosphere).

I think most of all you need to try to be very gentle with him and try to leave it up to him. The more you try to force the harder it is (As I found out with my ds). I remember being very frusterated with him and it just made it worse. I learned my lesson and with my dd, I tried to be very neutral about everything and she did much better.

I found the suppository to really help when he was truly constipated and not just holding it and it allowed me to leave him alone more knowing that when he was ready, we could help with that if we needed to. (which wasnt very often).

At this point I would try everything to help make thing more positive for him. A sticker rewards chart where when he gets so many he gets some sort of treat or prize. A prize box he can pick from every time he poops. A wrapped present set up high that he can have after he has pooped 3 times (which you explain is only 3 days if he goes every day).

Good luck!! HTH!!

[mommy2abigail]

My bf just went through this too. Her dd would hold it and hold it and refuse to go and when she did, it was painful. She did all the fiber recommendations, but unfortunately it was too late for her dd. What happens after time is that the bowel get stretched, and no longer sends effective messages to the brain that elimination needs to happen. She went to many doctors, had many tests done, and the last doctor (the one who diagnosed her) heard the symptoms and immediately said that it's a mental, not a physical problem. She is on super strong laxative for 6-8 months. It makes her bm very soft, and eliminates the pain. Plus it makes it so her bowel can repair itself. Not trying to scare you, but if your ds does continue this for much longer, I'd talk to his doctor. As much as I hate docs this is something that spirals out of control once it starts. Maybe try a natural laxative first? Btw, my friends dd is 3.

[wonderwahine]

my husbands bf, her daughter went through a similar experience where she would only poop in her pull ups......it was the only time she would soil them. And it didnt start happening for her, until after she had a kidney problem, and the medication had made her constipated. They had to give her a daily stool softner and beef up the prunes and fiber in her diet to make sure she went, and they would let her go in her pull ups. And after a while of them not making a big deal out of it, they made a promise to her since they lived in florida, if she went poopy in the potty again, she could go see the princesses at disney. A few weeks later, she was fully out of her pull ups and at disney she was telling every princess she came along about her going poopy in the potty.

[BeanyMama]

My DS did the exact same thing! We gave him unlimited access to blueberries and limited binding foods like bananna, rice, dairy, etc.
Once we started (really hard!) trying to not make a big deal out of it, it got better. I'd sit with him in the bathroom and read him books, sometimes he'd say he didn't want to go, I'd say okay let me know when you want to try again and give him a hug. It soothed his mood not to be forced, and made him a bit more coopertive. It hard mama, good luck!

[claras_mom]

I think angela&avery's suggestion of something to hold (as well as backing off) is really good. The distraction can keep him more relaxed when he does go.

[momto l&a]

I'd give him lots of vitamin c but not tell him why.

[srain]

I'd back off completely on the encouragement to poop, other than providing high-fiber foods and suggesting it before you go out/ before he goes to bed the same way you'd ask if he needs to pee. (Well, I always ask my kids, anyway.) I'd avoid using rewards; I think it makes it a bigger issue that way and might make him fight it even more. (But again, that's just how my kid is, so maybe it'd go differently with yours.)

While he's working out the issues with his body, I'd focus on the unacceptable behaviors. What might work is sitting down with him during a calm period, and let him know how these fits are affecting the family, and see what solutions you can come up with together to help prevent them in the future (i.e. redirecting anger, spending time alone, etc.) Even though his pain is triggering these behaviors, that doesn't make them all right.

[gen_here]

My BIL had this problem when he was a child. MIL said that she would run a really warm bath (not hot - just more than tepid and still comfy for him ) and he would often poop in the tub. Kinda gross... but he felt better in the end.

[kimiij]

Can you give him some kind of natural stool softener? Maybe your ped has some good ideas?

[Rockies5]

My eldest son would stand on his head to avoid pooping. He simply didn't like to sit on the toilet. he used to go once in NINE DAYS. He was 3. He'd call it "tree poop" (I'm guessing because it was the size and shape of a tree at that point?)

We gently but firmly told him he would get VERY sick if he didn't poop. He didn't care. He'd stand on his head on the couch (for a few hours a day) until the feeling passed while I tried to ignore it, but gave him lots of grape juice, bran muffins and thigs that would make him loose. Even a little of his favorite junk food just to get things rolling (Pizza and he's mildly sensitive to tomato paste)

Finally I bribed him and told him if he didn't fight pooping for a week we'd go to Toys R us and let him pick out a Buz Lightyear (that's dating the story, right?)

Worked for us, it was all about willfulness and control...I just found something he was wanting more then he wanted to avoid pooping.

Our issue went on for about a year until I found a way to stop it. My husband had the same issue with poop at the same age and was forced into having a suppository. That'll mess you up in more ways then one.

Push juice, water, and foods that cause looseness (dried fruit) and stay near a potty.

Goodluck!

[MyLittleWonders]

Thanks everyone! Today ds and I had a talk about his refusing to go and how it affects him and the family. We also talked about the underlying fear (not the first time we've done that though), and I asked him if there was anything I could do to help him. First he said there was nothing that would help, but then I gave some suggestions which he liked. Today we went to the HFS and bought some homeopathics and also dried fruit. Then, we went by Starbucks : because coffee typically goes right through you. Well, the coffee worked. Actually, that and a bit of cojolling (sp?) on my part to sit finally on the potty. After he went, we talked about how it didn't really hurt, and made plans to sit down on the potty tomorrow the first time he gets the feeling. I am hoping that he will want to ... his behavior is so much better once he gets that all out. I know that not putting the pressure on him is the best, but man it gets hard after continuous days. Thanks for the btdt stories though ... it's always reassuring to know you are not the only parent going through something.