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Why can't a blended mainstream/crunchy Mommy group work?! - Page 2

post #21 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imogen
What does CIO mean? I am still new-ish to these boards, still learning
CIO = Cry It Out
post #22 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrunchyMamaOf3
It was said out of caring, not in a judging way.. My Mom has MS and her doctor swears that almost all of his patients with MS have consumed large amounts of Aspartame as children and in early adulthood. I personally can't ignore that plus the info on temperature requirements for the stuff, it seems iffy to me and I was relaying that. I don't know... Now I feel like I need to explain myself here too. Maybe I should I just give up.
my husband has MS and has never once had a diet ANYTHING. sorry to sound defensive ... i think its about placing blame that hurts.
post #23 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imogen
What does CIO mean? I am still new-ish to these boards, still learning
Cry It Out.... evil, vile parenting technique...
post #24 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by melv
my husband has MS and has never once had a diet ANYTHING. sorry to sound defensive ... i think its about placing blame that hurts.
Who's placing blame? Lots of things cause cancer, but that doesn't mean that all cancer is caused by, say...smoking. Aluminum has been linked to Altzheimer's Disease, but that doesn't mean every Altzheimer's case is cause by aluminum exposure. Likewise research (or anecdote) showing that aspertame is linked to MS does not mean that all MS is caused by aspertame.
post #25 of 183
Quote:
Why are they so touchy? Probably because they know better than the way they've chosen to parent. They Know formula is bad, but they still use it. They know CIO is wrong, but they still do it. It's a guilty conscience.
Why are "they" so touchy? Attitudes like this, I would imagine. I think the reason "mainstream" parents appear so defensive is becaseu "crunchy" ones can be pretty free with the judgments, the argument often being "It only bothers you because you feel GUILTY."

As for the Diet Coke thing - I often see threads here with people complaining that relatives and friends don't respect their dietary choices. They don't want to hear about how kids need meat or McDonalds isn't "all that bad." Shouldn't other people get the same respect, even if they disagree with you?
post #26 of 183
I know just what you mean. Thus, one of the reasons I don't associate with anything but AP groups if I can manage it.
post #27 of 183
I know mainstream parents who reject AP because they think as an unbalanced lifestyle. They believe that being AP requires you to be so slavishly devoted to your children that you end up denying your own needs, letting your interest wither, and essentially betraying yourself.

Such people can shrug off any way that your parenting style is better for children than theirs, by viewing it as a symptom of your "obsession" with "perfection" in parenting, which they see as undercutting your ability to have a balanced life.

I think another reason people can get annoyed by successful AP parents is that some have rejected attachment parenting as an impossible ideal. ("Sure, it would be nice to take care of my kid whenever he cries at night, but that's simply not human. I need my sleep.") If their belief system about parenting is based on the idea that responsive parenting is impossible, it can be a real slap in the face to them to see someone successfully doing all of those "impossible" things.
post #28 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrunchyMamaOf3
Why are mainstream moms so touchy? If I can accept that every family is different and they need to do whats right for them why can't they do the same for me instead of telling me that "I'm cramming my opinion down their throats"?!:
Hypocrisy is a funny thing, isn't it? They've been expecting you to swallow their convoluted version of parenting, but can't accept natural ideas that go against the grain of what they've been told is "normal". I liken them to the religious fundamentalists who get all disgusted at the thought of a breast being suckled...they must have forgotten God created breasts to be suckled!! (no offense meant to any religious readers - some people just take things to extremes!)

To answer your question, "mainstream" moms are touchy because they know deep down that what they're doing is unnatural, yet feel the need to defend what has been taught to them by XYZ authority figure(s). For more info on why this happens, see some of these articles based on the works of Dr. Alice Miller: http://thesacredmoment.blogspot.com/...ce-miller.html

You may want to share some of these with people you know - very enlightening stuff.

I have recently come to an unfortunate realization: Crunchy & mainstream mommies have a hard time existing within the same FAMILY, let alone as FRIENDS. My mother is a prime example - she FF me against my father's wishes, BF my younger sister (though she chose to work full-time & pumped so poor Lauren only got the breast a couple times a day), then went BACK to FFing for our baby brother?!?! : She also is a fan of CIO - even as a child I couldn't stand it, and used to sneak in my little siblings' room to rock them back to sleep. She must've just thought they were responding soooo well to her awful tactics. heh! Anyway, to make a loooooong, abusive story short, I couldn't stand the way she started using what I saw as her torture methodology on my son, and so I stopped talking to her soon after he was born.

So don't feel too bad about ditching that group - what good is a support group if you don't get any support there?
post #29 of 183
First of all a for you!

The ONLY option I have is a completely mainstream playgroup. Why do I go? My kids would have no one else to play with and need to get out of the house. So do I! Do I say much? Nooooo. Someone asked me why. "Oh, I don't have that much in common, so I'm just listening and learning." Yeah. Learning what not to do. Learning that what I'm doing is just right for my family.

The few times I opened my mouth, I regretted it. The stares, the head shakes, the "let's convert her" conversations, etc. They're not mean though. I agree with some of the pp's about guilt vs. ignorance. They either feel guilty (the whole I know it's bad for me, but I'm going to do it anyway), or ignorance (the only thing I know is CIO, etc.). I can't judge the people themselves... I just inwardly question their choices.

As for your situation, where you feel verbally abused, I'd get away from the abusers.
post #30 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewMomNicole
Why are "they" so touchy? Attitudes like this, I would imagine. I think the reason "mainstream" parents appear so defensive is becaseu "crunchy" ones can be pretty free with the judgments, the argument often being "It only bothers you because you feel GUILTY."
Well, my judgements are what have gotten me to this point in my life, so that's fine. The truth can be harsh. I am judgemental. I'm okay with that. No, I'm proud of it. It means I use my instincts and my brain and there's nothing wrong with that. I also refuse to keep my mouth shut just because someone *might* get offended.

And honestly, if they don't feel guilty, why should it bother them? If you're (general "you") comfortable with your life & parenting chioces what reasons do you have to get riled up?
post #31 of 183
I think it's more the group than the beliefs. We participate in a play group where all the moms nurse, but as far as other AP things go, we all have things we take and things we leave. There are two of us who cloth diaper. One mom has c-sections because she can't deliver "big baby's." Some boys are circumcized, some aren't. Some of us use cribs, some don't. Some of us let our kids drink juice, some don't. Some spank, some don't. But we're all mature enough to not need to think exactly alike in order to be friends.

I don't think any group will be successful in the long term if they are not accepting of different choices. I think it's surprising sometimes who the touchy people really are. I've had conversations here at MDC where people were just as touchy and judgmental as the people sound like in your playgroup.

Everyone - AP or not - needs to learn to not try to control other people's lives AND to not take other people's perspectives or choices as direct judgment of how they choose to live their lives. It's just as important to not offend as it is to not allow yourself to be offended.
post #32 of 183
I don't really hang out with mommy groups in real life much, except for LLL and the API group I found recently. I take dd to storytime at the library, and aside from chatting with a few moms, I just kind of keep quiet. I have experienced the "Look" more than once when I've shared things about my family (tandem nursing, cosleeping, CDing, etc). Since we do have a couple of places we go where the mamas tend to be more in line with how I parent, the other stuff is more for dd anyway.

I have ditched a due date club message board because I got sick of reading negative comments about extended breastfeeding ("you better get him off the boob or you never will" type comments) and cosleeping, among other things. I used to stick around there to be the voice of reason (and no, I don't feel I was rude or pushy...if someone asked for advice about something I felt I could help with, I suggested AP techniques and posted articles in a gentle way), but it just got to be too emotionally draining for me. It also drove me nuts that there was even an AP section set up for a small group of us who parent that way, and people would regularly give CIO advice or something that went completely against AP philosophies.

So anyway, OP, I understand where you're coming from.
post #33 of 183
I think mainstream and AP parents can mix and form a good group--HOWEVER, it needs to be more of a balance. If you are the only one in a mainstream group or the only mainstream in an all AP group, I think its going to get dominated by whatever group has the overwhelming numbers. Honestly, I think the best is to try and find a group of moderate parents who don't consider themselves either AP or Mainstream but borrow from both. This is what I found and it worked wonderfully. Because really what is "AP" or "mainstream"? I hate the labels. They only serve to isolate us even further. Mommy wars....

BFing wasn't my thing, but my kid eats a super healthy organic/natural food diet from the start of solids (at 7months) to present (he is 3.5 years old). I've seen some mom's who BF until the child is 2 and at 3 the kid's most commonly ate veggie is the french fry.

Co sleep versus crib? Really whatever makes the parent and the child most happy and functional is the best. We tried cosleeping w/ our son, and he fought it...it just wasn't him.

I expected "AP" parents to limit TV, but have known some that let their kids watch loads of it. Again, what is "AP" what is "mainstream"?

Solids at 2 months old, does make me cringe...it really does...but what I am saying is pick your battles and find a group of more open minded/like minded people. If you are the only crunchy one there, I just don't think its going to work.

Even though I am a healthfood person--I do like my diet soda too! I try to limit it to once a day, but yeah...us diet soda junkies like our junk:
post #34 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by CryPixie83
Well, my judgements are what have gotten me to this point in my life, so that's fine. The truth can be harsh. I am judgemental. I'm okay with that. No, I'm proud of it. It means I use my instincts and my brain and there's nothing wrong with that. I also refuse to keep my mouth shut just because someone *might* get offended.

And honestly, if they don't feel guilty, why should it bother them? If you're (general "you") comfortable with your life & parenting chioces what reasons do you have to get riled up?
And yet when moms here are upset that family memebers don't approve of their choices (co sleeping, not vaxing, bfing in public, whatever) it's totally ok and not at all a sign of insecurity.

Also, I'm not sure how saying whatever, whenever, and screw the rest of the world is a good thing. Other people's feelings count.
post #35 of 183

Hmmm

I frequent both types of boards.. a more mainstream one when I have questions pertaining to the fact that DS is formula fed, and sleeps in his crib in his room... and here when referring to my use of gentle discipline, the fact that I believe in no vaxingand no circ'ing and when debating whether or not I want to homeschool.. and moms on BOTH sides get "touchy" I have been flamed here for formula feeding DS and flamed there for "spoiling" my baby by picking him up whenever her cries.

I think that when you choose to parent a certain way, you're doing it that way because you feel that you're right... and when someone questions you're methods it can make you defensive.
post #36 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewMomNicole
Why are "they" so touchy? Attitudes like this, I would imagine. I think the reason "mainstream" parents appear so defensive is becaseu "crunchy" ones can be pretty free with the judgments, the argument often being "It only bothers you because you feel GUILTY."
Here's the thing I don't get about this. I have had people tell me I was "doing it wrong" - co-sleeping or that I "couldn't possibly have milk left" - breastfeeding past 6 months. I have had people extoll the virtues of CIO or say things like "you can spank a kid becuase they understand that there are some things moms can do that kids can't." Whatever, I have never felt touchy or defensive. I usually just laugh it off becuase I KNOW that I am parenting the way that is best for my munchkin. So why can't mainstream moms do the same thing if they think they are doing what's best?

Mainstream moms are just as judgemental as crunchy moms but in my experience mainstream moms are way more touchy/likely to be offended. Most crunchy moms either laugh it off like me or internalize a feeling/worry about doing it wrong. This is what leads me to wonder if "they" are bothered because they feel guilty.
post #37 of 183
What a shame so many of you have had lousy experiences. I have a really close knit group of mom friends that get together twice a week for play dates etc... Plus there are things like birthday's holiday parties and the once a month moms night out. We see a lot of each other. I would definitely call it a mainstream group. We all initially met at a new mom support group organized at the hospital, so that right there is a fairly mainstream starting point. After 2.5 years I'm the only one who is BFing, and I get a lot of support from the group for this. I was the only one who cloth diapered, I was admired. I'm the only one who still has my kid in my bed (some did for a quite a while) no one suggests ever that I do otherwise. People dig my sling, and my ability to go places with sling and backpack and not drag a stroller along. In fact two of the other moms have since bought slings...


The respect is a two way street in our group. Moms who say there was no way they could sleep with their little one, I respond with "It only works for families if it makes everyone happy, parents and little ones." I know that my way of parenting is not the only way, and they know that their way of parenting is not the only way. But we all think of each other as good parents, we all have a mutual respect for each other and understanding that what works for one may not work for all.
post #38 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgoddess
The respect is a two way street in our group. Moms who say there was no way they could sleep with their little one, I respond with "It only works for families if it makes everyone happy, parents and little ones." I know that my way of parenting is not the only way, and they know that their way of parenting is not the only way. But was all think that each other are good parents, we all have a mutual respect for each other and understanding that what works for one may not work for all.
I love your post
post #39 of 183
Quote:
Here's the thing I don't get about this. I have had people tell me I was "doing it wrong" - co-sleeping or that I "couldn't possibly have milk left" - breastfeeding past 6 months. I have had people extoll the virtues of CIO or say things like "you can spank a kid becuase they understand that there are some things moms can do that kids can't." Whatever, I have never felt touchy or defensive. I usually just laugh it off becuase I KNOW that I am parenting the way that is best for my munchkin. So why can't mainstream moms do the same thing if they think they are doing what's best?
That's you. I don't think that's 99.9% of the other moms who post here, esp as 99.9% of the posts seem to be complaints that other people don't "get" how the poster parents/lives.

Quote:
Mainstream moms are just as judgemental as crunchy moms but in my experience mainstream moms are way more touchy/likely to be offended. Most crunchy moms either laugh it off like me or internalize a feeling/worry about doing it wrong. This is what leads me to wonder if "they" are bothered because they feel guilty.
Again, judging from this forum (where I've been lurking since I was pregnant), that's just you and does not apply to most other posters here.

I don't believe that the moms who post here feel insecure or guilty about their decisions when they complain that other people disapprove or don't understand their choices - I think they just want to be heard and respected, just like anyone.

As to the OP. If someone had said they felt bad about having sausage for breakfast and someone else had said, "At least you're not one of those anemic, always-sick vegitarians!" I think we'd all agree that it was out of line. Other people just want the same respect you want for yourself.
post #40 of 183
I'm in an online birth group as well....and I fit in a lot better here than I do anywhere else. I'm the only one who does anything remotely different...and while it's a nice "whatever works for you atmosphere," that very same atmosphere just drives me nuts sometimes. Just because it "works" dosn't mean it's something good to do (aka CIO, spanking).
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