GD and siblings

[oceanbaby]

I'm having a hard time with a few things between my two boys, and would love some feedback.

When ds1 grabs something from ds2 - this doesn't happen all the time, but enough for it to be a problem. Ds2 immediately starts screaming, ds1 is clutching it behind his back and glaring at me, and I'm trying to figure out a way to get it back to ds2 without grabbing it from ds1. But I don't really have 20 minutes to sit there and discuss it with ds1, because ds2 is screaming and grabbing for the toy. It gets chaotic very quickly, and I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to do. It's not fair that ds2 loses his toy, but I don't want to rip it away from ds1. Yeah, half the time ds1 gives it back, but it's the other half that I'm having a problem with.

Or behaviors like this: Ds1 will go up to ds2 and do that spitting, tongue between his lips kind of thing. (He picked this up from a kid in preschool and I could just scream with frustration.) This has been going for 6 months or longer (I think I even posted about it before here). I have talked to ds1 about this more times than I can count, and he almost always agrees that it's not a nice thing to do. If I ask him why he does it his answer is "I don't know." It doesn't seem to be an attention thing. It seems to be solely a torture the baby thing. But it really upsets ds2, and I feel like short of tossing out a punishment (which is not what we do around here), I am helpless. I mean, it's pretty lame to just say "DS1, please don't spit in DS2's face, he doesn't like that." Yeah, he knows he doesn't like it, that's why he's doing it. So, what do I do?

I guess ultimately I feel like I've got the hang of GD with one child, as I can not react to most behaviors and instead focus on them as child who has an unmet need at that moment. But it is a lot harder to do when the other child is dealing with the "bad" behavior, and it's very unfair that they have to put up with it.

[mommy_e]

.... because I have the same problem...

[AngelBee]

Me too :

[traceface]

that spitting, tongue between his lips kind of thing. (He picked this up from a kid in preschool and I could just scream with frustration.)

That is the single worst thing, it reaallly gets my goat too. It's one of those 'childhood culture' things, too -- in that it somehow gets passed down from one generation of children to the next, with adults never doing it as an example.

[cfiddlinmama]

I'm really curious what the solution is too! I'm pretty new to GD and it's things like that that make me go !

[maya44]

What worked for our family was to not get involved in the spitting/annoying behavior.

I would certainly comfort a child upset by it, but would not, in front of the "wrongdoer" ever place blame or discuss the "wrongdoing." In PRVIATE there can be a discussion like "Wow, your brother is really mean sometimes, huh? I know you don't like it when he spits at you. Its icky!"

But in front of the other....I would just pick up dc 2 and give them a hug and just ignore the fact that dc 1 had done this (since there was no physical harm involved).

I know alot of people don't like this approach, but I will tell you that as soon as I stopped reacting to this kind of behavior it decreased DRAMTICALLY (though it did not stop 100 percent).

One of the things I found that caused MORE rivalry was to try to convince th older sib's not to be "mean" to the younger ones. It just did not work and caused the older ones to think "That baby, she always has mom on her side"

[oceanbaby]

It is soooo hard to ignore certain behavior. I vascillate between feeling like this is a good idea and a bad idea. I mean, what would you do if it was another person's kid? Or what if he did it to an adult? How do you just ignore it? I would probably be pretty pissed if a kid did that to me and the parent didn't do anything, but then again, I don't know what they should do!

I do know that ignoring certain behavior, or rather, not reacting to certain behavior, does help to reduce it. I have definitely seen that work when I take that approach. But I'm just not sure that it feels right when it's directed at someone other than myself or dh.

[MamaFern]

im having a very similar experience.. but its between my 3.5 year old DS and my 8 month old DD..

DS gets sooo hyper and excited and then gets really close to DD and either climbs on her till she falls over or tries to pick her up or gets in her face (usually trying to kiss her over and over which is very sweet but she doesnt really like it..) she rarely cries but i cant help but jmp in before she does get hurt. the idea of sitting back and not getting involved seems like a good idea between kids of equal age/size.. but its hard for me not to want to protect the underdog.
i do try to talk to him about it without blaming him or getting angry but i admit i do get mad after about the 10th time in a day or hour.

i used to sling her a ton and it solved a lot of the problem..but she isnt into it anymore. she wants to be on the floor crawling and getting into stuff and im getting tired of playing referee..

[maya44]

Originally Posted by oceanbaby

It is soooo hard to ignore certain behavior. I vascillate between feeling like this is a good idea and a bad idea. I mean, what would you do if it was another person's kid? Or what if he did it to an adult? How do you just ignore it? I would probably be pretty pissed if a kid did that to me and the parent didn't do anything, but then again, I don't know what they should do!

I do know that ignoring certain behavior, or rather, not reacting to certain behavior, does help to reduce it. I have definitely seen that work when I take that approach. But I'm just not sure that it feels right when it's directed at someone other than myself or dh.

Well IMO it's important to NOT compare a sibling relationship to any other. This is a relationship like no other in the world because unlike a friend or someone else, these two are (in THEIR minds) competing for YOU (your love, your attention, your approval). This is a natural rivalry between all siblings on some level.

Thus, unlike if this was happening with a friend or an adult, what you have to think about is that your VERY ACT OF GETTING INVOLED may in and of itself BE A CAUSE OF THE BEHAVIOR.

That is why I believe that with siblings and with siblings ONLY you must as much as possible NOT get get involved except to protect them from physical stuff.

And even with phycial stuff, I don't blame one unless they are about to cause ACTUAL harm to the other:

So it's "Hey you two cut it out" when its ds 1 poking his brother in the back.

But its: "DS 1 you can not poke DS 2 in the face, you could hurt his eyes"

And it's "You two cut that out" when its DS 1 pushing his brother in the middle of a padded carpet

But its "DS 1 you can't push your brother near the stairs, he could fall and really get hurt" This may include actually moving DS 1 away from his brother.

This does not mean not talking to the "victim" about it to sympathize and empathize, but it means doing so privately.

This would even include talking to DS 1 at a neutral time maybe on a day when their have been NO incidents. "DS 1 you have been really nice to your brother today. I know its hard to have a little brother, they are a pain sometimes huh? But he really loves you. Think about that when you do things that you know will annoy or scare him. OK?" [This sends the message without you telling him that he MUST act in a certain way]