Friend's 4yo very violent *graphic & disturbing* - Page 2

[boongirl]

Originally Posted by MiamiMami

This is definitely a good reason to call cps. THe mother doesn't want to get her child the help he needs. There needs to be some intervention

I would agree with this and call them asap. There is tons of research showing that killers often start with animals as children. This is a very sick child who needs help asap before he kills a child, or another animal. I would honestly consider this an emergency and also report him to the police. I don't know about where you live but in WA state it is illegal to kill a pet.

And, I would not worry one iota about how to tell her you don't want her son around your child. Just tell her as simply as possible that you are scared by his behavior and worried about your child getting hurt. She needs to be told the truth so she can assist in getting him the help he needs. If you pad the truth to spare her feelings you will not be giving her the message that this is a very serious issue, which it is. Be respectful, but blunt and simple.

[guestmama9924]

Originally Posted by MyCalling

He has also strangled my dog
He has jumped up and down on my child's head
smashed his head into the tiles.
Another time threw a brick and cut my son's forehead down to his skull.

After the last cat died I told her he needed counseling.

that sounds like conduct disorder, and it can lead ( and it DOES lead) to serious anti-social behavior including the behavior known to those incarcerated for serial murders. no I am not being flipant. I am serious.
http://health.discovery.com/encyclop...le=2834&page=1
THere are many articles on the link between hurting animals and later hurting people, that is very serious. If it was ME, I would talk to couselors/teachers at school ( if they attend the same school) and let the parent know that they cannot turn their back on any illness the child has , including mental.

Violent acts toward animals have long been recognized as indicators of a violent psychopathology that does not confine itself to animals. "Anyone who has accustomed himself to regard the life of any living creature as worthless is in danger of arriving also at the idea of worthless human lives," wrote humanitarian Albert Schweitzer. "Murderers...very often start out by killing and torturing animals as kids," according to Robert K. Resler, who developed
profiles of serial killers for the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Studies have now convinced sociologists, lawmakers, and the courts that acts of cruelty toward animals deserve our attention. They can be the first sign of a violent pathology that includes humans.

[AutumnMama]

His behavior is extremely disturbing, and I agree with the other posters that something needs to be done. NOW.
Hopefully this can be stopped and reversed before he moves beyond killing/torturing animals and onto humans

[MyCalling]

Here's another aspect that worries me. If I were to do both call and tell her I don't want her son around, she'll know I was the one to call and she would retaliate by calling them on me! She would and has on her child's father for calling on her about sexual acting out by this boy (which is one of the signs on the RAD link).

I know she would call on me in a heartbeat and as she said "do whatever it takes to get their kids taken away." Including lie and exagerate. I have a: homebirthed (one without birth cert), homeschooled, unvaxed, no checkups, 2 kids sleep in our room, two share a bed in another - family. They are also always dirty since they play outside all day and track it in no matter how much cleaning I do. I'm sure you all understand our lifestyle and why I'm hesitant.

[Nickarolaberry]

This is terrible.

Call CPS right now. Today.

And, frankly, I also would not care one bit about hurting her feelings when telling her she can't bring him near you or yours. She clearly has no compunction about her son hurting yours. You have to be the mama bear here and protect yourself and your family. He cannot come within fifty feet of you, your kid, your premises, your dog, your sofa, nothing.

This is a really bad thing waiting to happen....

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by MyCalling

Ok, so how should I tell her in a way she might reap some benefit that I don't want her child around mine anymore? Now remember I'm a coward and don't want to hurt her feelings, nor make her brush this all off thinking it's me with the problem and keep making excuses for her kid! :

Let's backtrack a minute here...

Originally Posted by MyCalling

He has jumped up and down on my child's head and scarred his face another time by scratching him, and sat on another son's back pinning him face down on a tile floor and smashed his head into the tiles. Another time threw a brick and cut my son's forehead down to his skull.

I don't envy your position, but put those images of your children bleeding, crying, screaming, whatever was happening in your head right now. Not a pretty picture, was it? Now go call you friend, write her a letter, email her, whatever and tell her that you will not sit back and let her son harm your children. Mama, those were not just little bruises- he's really hurting your kids! Please do not wait around until something more serious happens. This child needs help. He may be put in foster care for a while until his mom knows how to provide this help but if you do nothing- can you live guilt free if he seriously harms or kills another child?

[mom2olivia]

I feel terrible for the position you are in, but you need to tell her that her son was a bit too rough for your liking during his last visit and to ensure the safety of your children and your dog you simply cannot allow him in your home.

[frannyfresh]

Very disturbing situation. When I was growing uo there were quite a few boys like the one you discribe and they ended murdering people when they became teenagers. Stay away from this kid

[jlutgendorf]

Please, if you don't call CPS, at least call Animal Control, The Humane Society, SPCA, whoever is incharge of animal welfare in your town and see if you can't at least get the cat taken in to custody so it's doesn't have live out the rest of it's sad, short life, tortured and abused.

See what you can do to get her family put on the blacklist of your shelters and rescues so she won't be allowed to adopt. (though it won't stop her from being able to answer "free to good home" ads).

Even that much may save the life of a helpless animal and start some sort of documentation about her sons behaviour. And even if she calls the same people on you, I doubt that your childrens dr.s records will warrant taking your dog away.

Sending you some (((vibes))) to help you with this difficult task.

~Julia

[bobandjess99]

I'd call CPS.
This is serious.
This child will progress to hurting more and more people, and eventually to murder.
Unfortunately, there is likely very little that can be done, short of lifetime incarceration.
You must stop being this persons friend, and under no circumstances let your child near this child.
Think of it this way..if you knew a convicted rapist/murderer lived down the block, would you let your kid visit?
That's what this little kid is....just a few years down the road.
Protect your child.

[Delacroix]

I don't know what CPS could do, since you can't PROVE that the boy killed the animals. Sounds like mom needs some help too, since she is living in so much denial. I don't know ANYBODY capable of ignoring the suffering that this boy caused to the animals before they died. That. Is. Scary. The fact that she is so dismissive about it is SCARY.

And now she get's another cat??? : Seriously, I don't know who is in more need of urgent help, the mom or the child!

In your shoes, I would run, not walk, away. I would. I would be afraid for my children and my animals. I have a LOT of animals, it wouldn't even be an option for me to allow a child with those issues into my home.

I kind of think, as challenging as it may be, you almost have an obligation to be straight up with her about what you are thinking. She needs to know. If she dismisses it, you know that there is no hope of salvaging the friendship, and the friendship seems too fraught with risk to continue. You can't endanger your own child by continuing to allow this other boy around him.

I feel for you mama. This is a very bad situation, very uncomfortable all around.

[Delacroix]

Originally Posted by bobandjess99

I'd call CPS.
This is serious.
This child will progress to hurting more and more people, and eventually to murder.
Unfortunately, there is likely very little that can be done, short of lifetime incarceration.
You must stop being this persons friend, and under no circumstances let your child near this child.
Think of it this way..if you knew a convicted rapist/murderer lived down the block, would you let your kid visit?
That's what this little kid is....just a few years down the road.
Protect your child.

ITA. Totally.

[Mamm2]

Hello momma!

I just had to respond here. I used to be a psychiatric nurse in the adolescent unit. The things you have described that this child has done, fall under the early signs of a sociopath. This child needs intervention!! I had a child in the unit who had tried to kill his mother with a knife...he was 3years old. You have NO IDEA what you are dealing with. I hope you decide to do something before it is too late and you regret it.

DO NOT LET HIM PLAY WITH YOUR CHILD. He can and will eventually seriously hurt your child.

I don't know the laws in your state. There is a law called The Baker Act, meaning certain individual have the authority to admit this child to a hospital without the mother's consent. I believe the people that can do this are a physician, police officer, and social worker.

If you are scared of getting involved you can make a anonymous call to the police. Just get this child some help!!

[guestmama9924]

have you thought of printing stuff out to show her? Do you have a local PETA chapter? ASPCA chapter? You could tip them off and let them do the dirty work...
--------------------------------------
A study conducted by Northeastern University and the Massachusetts SPCA found that people who abuse animals are five times more likely to commit violent crimes against humans. The majority of inmates scheduled to be executed for murder at California’s San Quentin penitentiary “practiced” their crimes on animals, according to the warden.
• As a child, serial killer and rapist Ted Bundy—ultimately convicted of two killings but suspected of murdering more than 40 women—witnessed his father’s violence toward animals, and he himself subsequently tortured animals.

• Earl Kenneth Shriner, who raped and stabbed a 7-year-old boy, was known in his neighborhood for hanging cats and torturing dogs.
• David Berkowitz (a.k.a. “Son of Sam”), who pleaded guilty to 13 murder and attempted murder charges, shot a neighbor’s Labrador retriever.
• Brenda Spencer, who opened fire at a California school, killing two children and injuring nine others, had repeatedly abused cats and dogs, often setting their tails on fire.
• Serial killer and cannibal Jeffrey Dahmer impaled the heads of dogs and cats on sticks.


ETA: many of these kids who abuse animals are also themselves abused

[my4magpies]

Yikes! That sounds disturbing. I think I read something years ago about rapists/murderers started off by killing (and torturing) animals in their childhood. Sorry, I could be waaaaayyyyy off by saying this, but I'd get my kid counseling. As a mom, I'd be very concerned!

[Pandora114]

Holy ******!!!

talk about a steriotype coming to life read the red headed remark...you know that horrid steriotype about redheaded children being of the devil or whatever, more often than not it's not the case, but in this one, it's true!!!

I understand you're hesitant to call CPS because you fear she's gonna retaliate against you in some way. If you LET THEM KNOW that she will possibly file a report against you in retaliation, they will DISMISS it when she does, put it on record she's good at filing false claims.

You need to get this kid out from under her....her denial will only cause some serious problems down the road, not just for her, but for the rest of society as well. We Do NOT want a serial killer on the loose...even a few years down the road.

Early intervention is the key..please get it for this child...give him some hope at having a decent childhood anyway..even if part of it is in a program (hospital) geared towards mentaly ill patients with sociopathic disorders..

The good of many comes before the wishes of one in this case...

[bri276]

I couldn't bear to read anything else but the title (I am a HUGE sucker for animals and I get realllllllly disturbed) but I do know that when a child abuses/kill animals it is a sign they will be psychotic as an adult- like, serial killer psychotic- not just one of those "it's the parent's fault" scenarios- however it is possible the child is being abused by someone also. it shows a lack of empathy and guilt that is far beyond the range of normal and it s a huge, huge warning sign- very sad, hope the chlid gets help.

[MamaTaraX]

That's scary and totally sociopathic. I really feel bad for that little boy. I bet somewhere he is scared in there. I would look into how to find psychiatric help for him. I'm not a fan of CPS and don't know what they would do for this child except put him in foster care where he'd just have access to more animals and more children to hurt. He neds professional psyshicatric help and he needs to be watched. I hope this mom gets a clue before something serious happens. I would definately looki into having him committed. And I'd definatetly keep my kids away from him, with or without saying something to her first! s to you and positive thoughts for that little boy and his mama.

Namaste, Tara

[MPJJJ]

This child is hurting YOUR child! Why on earth are you still allowing that kid near your child? You owe it to your children to protect them, which you are miserably failing by allowing them to be injured by this child! Even if you do not call CPS, you need to step up to the plate and start protecting your own babies, not worrying about someone else's feelings. :

[Maple Leaf Mama]

This is a classic case of the mother playing the "not my kid" card.
MY kid didn't kill the cats-they were "defective. MY kid didn't break the lamp-it was defective.
You'd think she would question why SHE owns/has so many defective items??
Does she just think she has bad luck?

OP: just wondering-does the boy wet the bed that you know of?
Does he show any unusual interest in lighters, matches?
Does the mother smoke?

The ":serial killer" triad--

Some serial killers display one or more of what are known as the "MacDonald Triad" of warning signs in childhood. These are:

Fire starting, invariably just for the thrill of destroying things.
Cruelty to animals (related to "zoosadism"). Many children may be cruel to animals, such as pulling the legs off spiders, but future serial killers often kill larger animals, like dogs and cats, and frequently for their solitary enjoyment rather than to impress peers.
Bedwetting beyond the age when children normally grow out of such behavior.

PS-I have a psychology degree-and I agree-this child needs help before he hospitalizes a child OR kills another animal.
He's 3, right?

I would not deal with the mother-she will turn on you-and that's a kind of crazy you just don't need.

Call CPS AND the SPCA.
And as Pandora suggested-explain that she has a history of false accusations.
Tell them that you fully expect her to file a claim against you in retaliation. If it is on file-it's your protection.

And for the love and all that is precious-don't let that child anywhere your kids. Period. FULL STOP! DONE!
Your kids just can't defend themselves against a kid like that.
(And I'm very sorry that you are in this position. I'm really feeling for you.
I'll bet your heart is racing while reading all these posts.-and KNOWING what you need to do)
HUGS!!