Washington Post article

[smurphygt]

Hi, I don't normally post but I read this horrid article in my local paper this morning and I needed to complain to people that would understand. The title in our paper read "Circumcision slippery slope in AIDS fight", so I'm thinking it's an article decrying the use of routine circ to prevent HIV/AIDS. Here's the first paragraph

Circumcision, which lowers a man's risk of becoming infected with HIV, may soon join the growing arsenal of weapons against the AIDS epidemic. But to do so will require overcoming a unique set of obstacles, hazards, costs and enemies.

The article itself doesn't mention that the study that piece of info was based on is the source of much debate. It did mention that some AIDS activists are hesitant to suggest circ as a good solution, but only because sme people would use traditional healers to perform the operation and those same healers unknowingly transmit HIV. The whole article just really upset me to the point that I now have a splitting headache.

I just want to scream at the world (esp the U.S.) how wrong RIC is and then I read crap like this in the paper! When will this spread of misinformation stop?

The rest of the article is located here, but you'll have to register first to read it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...9.html?sub=new

ETA: I guess my local paper didn't print the article in its entirety. The Washington Post article looks twice as long so maybe there's more to it than I originally thought. Unfortunately I can't really read the rest of it right now as I have to take my kids to a park day.

[kldliam]

When will this spread of misinformation stop?

I think that it's a deliberate form of pro-circ propaganda put forth by a pro-genital-mutilation world. I feel powerless sometimes to overcome such odds.

[Quirky]

Oh, yeah, male circumcision is NOTHING do you hear us NOTHING like FGM....

[baybee]

One way to think about the circumcision prevents AIDS lunacy is to compare it to a game of Russian Roulette. One gun has 2 bullets in it (intact, if it was true) and the other gun has one bullet (circ'd if it was true) in it. Wanna play Russian Roulette with EITHER of those guns?

Condoms are the first band aid solution. Creating a world that works for everyone with no one and nothing left out is the bigger challenge and one that we can do since we put a man on the moon, right?
Baybee

[smurphygt]

Originally Posted by kldliam

I feel powerless sometimes to overcome such odds.

Me too. I'm going to send some info to the author of the article, but I have a feeling I'm wasting my time.

[DocsNemesis]

Grrr, this crap just pisses me off so much! You know perfectly well that 20 years from now they will have debunked this as well and be trying to come up with some other excuse. Not only that, but I can just imagine the headlines-"Circumcision actually increases incidince of AIDS in Africa." Not only are cut guys less likely to use condoms in general because of the lack of sensitivity (my dh HATES them-he cant feel anything while wearing one) but imagine you are a tribal man in Africa and you are told that getting circumcised will reduce your chances of getting AIDS. When I imagine myself in that position, all I hear is that I can sleep around more and not worry about protection because after all, I am circumcised. I have already read statements like this from people over there-like a mom saying she was taking her 3 boys in to get cut so they wont get AIDS. Not so that they are less likely, so that they WONT get AIDS. I am all for trying to reduce AIDS infections, but cutting off penises wont help.

[MyNameIsBen]

I'm a little surprised that this article was on washingtonpost. I have always looked at that paper as a bastion of left-ish news, and I guess I always thought that it wouldn't carry such nonsense. There's another interesting article on the bbc website about how the Bush administration's attempt to help stop the AIDS virus in Africa is bad. Here's a link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4797537.stm

It's ridiculous and ethnocentric to assume that everyone values abstinence equally. Hello George? Not everyone is a raving fundamentalist with 19th century values.

[dharmama]

Sigh. Just saw a snippet about this in our paper and was coming here to post a similar thread.

[christifav]

In all seriousness...if circ did prevent HIV infection, then wouldn't the time to circ be before sexual activity? Instead of at birth?

[pdx.mothernurture]

If circ did decrease the risk of HIV significantly, I still don't think it's a reasonable approach for the vast majority of low-moderate risk men. Condoms are cheaper and far less invasive. If a male were to decide to engage in high-risk, unprotected (condomless), promiscuous sex with other men, prostitutes, or IV drug users I think some serious counseling/therapy to deal with the self destructive behavior would offer better protection then penile reduction surgery. The other instance where I could see a man choosing circumcision as a method of protection---in combination with condoms, of course---would be if he lived in a country where HIV was extremely prevalent and was not in a serious, monogamous relationship.

Regardless, circumcision should certainly only be done with the fully informed consent of the OWNER of the penis.

Jen

[mamaofthreecats]

the best way to prevent hiv is abstinace---it seems like the media forgets that

[TigerTail]

Originally Posted by pdx.mothernurture

If a male were to decide to engage in high-risk, unprotected (condomless), promiscuous sex with other men, prostitutes, or IV drug users I think some serious counseling/therapy to deal with the self destructive behavior would offer better protection then penile reduction surgery.

Regardless, circumcision should certainly only be done with the fully informed consent of the OWNER of the penis.

Jen

I'm not really disagreeing, but isn't the majority of HIV transmission in Africa passed through fairly routine non-monogamous sexual encounters? It's pretty endemic to just be hitting up guys who go to whores (and the other rarer methods of transmission).

I don't think the average African who's thinking of himself as getting a culturally accepted 'little on the side' is going to be open to the idea that he needs 'counseling for self-destructive behavior'. Condoms, condoms, condoms. Not perfect, but better than nothing (and certainly, better than opening up a whole new wasp's nest of transmission factors like microtears- you know, the obvious stuff they implicate FGM for in hiv transmission .

I can't support circumcision for even this cause when the liars, the ignorant, & the fetishists (all non-ritual circumcisors must fall into one of these categories) have defined 'informed consent' & show no signs of altering their campaign of disinformation.

[MyNameIsBen]

Originally Posted by mamaofthreecats

the best way to prevent hiv is abstinace---it seems like the media forgets that

Also pretty unrealistic, don't you think? I mean, can you cite an example of an abstinence program actually working?

[pdx.mothernurture]

Originally Posted by TigerTail

I'm not really disagreeing, but isn't the majority of HIV transmission in Africa passed through fairly routine non-monogamous sexual encounters? It's pretty endemic to just be hitting up guys who go to whores (and the other rarer methods of transmission).

I see what you're saying, but IMO monogamous=one partner, and the reality is if African men and women were insisting on HIV testing prior to sexual activity, recognized the 6 month window period when a false negative is possible, and using condoms consistantly regardless the HIV rate would plummet.

Jen

[Fi.]

I mean, can you cite an example of an abstinence program actually working?

Sure! Texas has been doing it for years! And they have the highest teen pregnancy rate in the country....oh wait.

Yeah in Texas (at least this is how it used to be, not sure how it is now) girls aren't allowed to be educated about condoms/birth control/STDs until they're already pregnant to prevent it from happening again. *headdesk*

[baybee]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/1c8fbc40-2bb...0779e2340.html

“In the fight against AIDS, condoms save lives. If you oppose the
distribution of condoms, something is more important to you than
saving lives.” -Melinda Gates